Mechanical Keyboards...

Discussion in 'Geek Cave: Computers, Tablets, HT, Phones, Games' started by aufmerksam, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Likes Received:
    579
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    DCish
    My understanding is that Topres are expensive due to switch availability.
    • As far as I know, they're pretty much impossible to source for DIYers and more boutique keyboard shops.
    • The sole manufacturer of high-end electrocap switches is Topre in Japan, so probably you're getting some import duty passed along in the price when you buy from one of the bigger companies. (I think Realforce and Leopold are actually Japanese companies, and I can't think of another big maker of Topre keyboards)
    • After that, well, scarcity -> demand -> prices?

    I think the keycaps are mostly Cherry MX compatible, so I assume those are the same cost to produce as other keyboards.

    (Aside/confounder: demand for standalone Topre switches for DIY might also be low/near zero because they're not really drop-in replacements for typical mechanical switches, since they use a silicon membrane & require a Topre specific PCB.)
     
  2. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    667
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Leopold is Korean, but the Topre Leopolds are manufactured in Japan by Topre but using Leopold layouts, while the normal Leopolds are manufactured in Taiwain, so that's already a source of tax. Another source is simply prestige. Topre's been doing the same thing for a long time now, so they can charge extremely high prices for better tolerance and quality control (which is definitely higher than MX switches, I wouldn't consider MX switches Sennheiser but more like Beyer in terms of QC just to give an analogy that disproves the German precision engineering notion). So you can definitely say Topre is literally the Stax of keyboards, for the sole reason that the stuff they make definitely doesn't cost that much in raw materials e.g Lambda series, they are still just rubber domes after all, but they are allowed to charge higher since they pioneered the technology and perfected it tolerance wise. The HHKB Type-S, which is just an HHKB with some added rubber silencing rings that you can do yourself, costs an extra $100.

    As for the Cherry MX model, I think that's a perfectly reasonable price for what they are offering. PBT doubleshot keycaps are pretty much indestructible (I have some oil on my WASD keys from playing a lot of FPS but it hasn't worn down the plastic at all, I could still feel the texture after 2 years of usage on the old 750R). Leopold is minimalistic but also very well built for being plastic and still weighs a hefty amount while having some really nice unique layouts.
     
  3. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I cheaped out from getting a Leopold, and ordered a TADA68 instead. Shipping was free and real fast from KBDFans, and I've been using it casually at home for the past 2 weeks.

    Loving the look and the size, but I do have to admit there are minor gripes that make me half-regret the purchase. My frame of reference is a Filco Ninja with Cherry MX Brown switches:
    - Keycaps feel 'rough' or dusty
    - Gateron Browns feel stiff, less satisfying, and louder
    - Finish of the plastic housing has some noticeable imperfections (e.g. sharp corners, though not dangerously so)

    It's definitely high value-for-money, and I think the 65% layout is working well for me so far. If anyone's on the fence trying out KBDFans or this kind of layout, I would encourage them to go for it.
     
  4. InsanityOne

    InsanityOne Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ankeny, Iowa
    I started out my mechanical keyboard journey as a young child typing on ALPS boards made for OEMs like Apple, Dell (AT101W), IBM, etc. Although back then I had no idea that they would end up being as valuable as they are today, otherwise I would have saved the boxes and boxes of them that we sent off to the recycling center from the company my parents worked for.

    [​IMG]

    Fast forward several years to when I was 15 or 16, I saved up and bought my first "nice" keyboard with Cherry MX Reds from Steelseries. The model was the 6Gv2. It was a nice board, very heavy, and felt very sturdy. It was impossible to find keycaps for though because it had such an odd layout with the right enter key being over-sized, etc. I had that board for probably 3 or 4 years before I sold it.

    [​IMG]

    Then fast forward again to when I was 20, I got in on the first crowd-funding campaign for the Ergodox-EZ and ended up with a black tilt/tent model with Gateron Reds. I used it stock for awhile before a keyset came along that had a colorway I just couldn't ignore, which was GMK Plum. Along with GMK Plum I also have several Gen.S artisans on the board, plus custom USB cables. I also installed Zealencio silencing clips onto all of the switches to keep it nice and quiet during the late hours of the night. (More photos if anyone is interested: https://imgur.com/a/05haz and https://imgur.com/a/6KvBH)

    [​IMG]

    As of now I am currently gearing up to build my next board which will replace my ErgoDox EZ. The board will be a ReDox Manuform based on this design: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3503380 with Input Club's Hako Violet switches. The board will be hand-wired and will use either an Elite C or QMK Proton C controller. I am hoping I can get either of those working with QMK so I can use QMK's online configurator for easy flashing. The keyset is undecided, but if I can't find anything I love I'll just transfer over GMK Plum and put the stock keys back on my ErgoDox EZ.

    [​IMG]

    For anyone out there who thinks getting used to using a split ergo-board with thumb clusters is "too hard" or "crazy" let me just tell you that it is actually very easy and your wrists / fingers will thank you later.
     
  5. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,085
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Is the rough or dusty feel due to them being pbt caps? I know mine definitely have a different feel to them than the ABS I replaced.
     
  6. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    63
    @fraggler yeah it might be the PBT I'm getting used to. So far I've only ever had ABS thus far.
     
  7. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,894
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I would like to know if those controllers work. I built a custom board, hand wired, using a teensy 2.0 and tmk keyboard firmware, but I keep having issues making it work right, been trying for a while, still can't get it to work.
     
  8. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    I'm now intrigued by these ergodox keyboards. Anyone know a cheap one I can buy before seriously committing to a custom one?
     
  9. InsanityOne

    InsanityOne Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ankeny, Iowa
    Unfortunately the only way to get a "cheap" Ergodox is to build one yourself, and even at that you will still be looking at spending around $150 minimum. However, your cheapest options in order of lowest - highest price are as follows:

    1.) Ergodox Infinity from Kono.Store: https://kono.store/collections/all-products-list/products/infinity-ergodox-keyboard
    • ~$200, fully pre-assembled.
    • No plug and play tilt / tent or wrist wrest options.
    • TONS of 3D printable accessories available on thingiverse.com.
    • Group Buy lead-time.
    • Limited switch options available.
    2.) Ergodox-EZ: https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/customize
    • $270 (no tilt/tent, wrist wrests, or RGB)
    • $354 (fully loaded)
    • Slightly more switch options available.
    • Nice level of quality for a mass produced board.
    3.) Custom Ergodox from FalbaTech: https://falba.tech/customize-your-keyboard/customize-your-ergodox/
    • ~$150 (barebones) $400+ (fully customized)
    • Built to your exact specifications.
    • Nearly every option you could ever want available.
    • Based in the EU. (International shipping isn't cheap)
    • Probably one of the best community ErgoDox builders out there.

    So, unless you really do want to build one yourself, you will have to fork over a bit of money to get your hands on an Ergodox. They are most definitely worth every penny though if you spend a lot of time at computers every day.
     
  10. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    @InsanityOne

    Sumbitch! I would DIY my custom keyboard anyway so not really an alternative.

    Anyone interested in an ergodox loaner tour?
     
  11. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Likes Received:
    579
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    DCish
    @Cspirou There's no chance of an r/mechanicalkeyboards meetup near you, is there? I don't know the what the community is like in Europe, but I'm seeing upcoming meetups in London & Cologne, as well as a French regional group which looks like it's had at least one meetup.

    These things tend to get surprisingly high turnout-- people drove 200+mi to our Ohio meetups (quite a few Detroit folks) but I don't know what's reasonable in your neck of the woods.

    Ergodoxes are pretty popular-- most of the r/mk meetups I've been to have had 4 or 5 ergodoxes (including my dusty old og) as well as a lot of other diy spinoffs (dactyls, atreus, other stuff). If you keep an eye on that local group/can make it to a meetup, you'll probably get your chance to try some of this stuff out at least in passing. Can't seem to find the shared google photos albums but here's some imgur.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  12. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,085
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    While I really don't think I will go down the hole for the really nice stuff that you guys have talked about (I am not a coder or writer, so my needs aren't that strong), I will say that it is nice to see the proliferation of mechanical keyboards in general. I recently got a Velocifire mechanical with white backlighting, brown Outemu switches that works both via bluetooth or via a USB-C cable. Nice weight, the ABS keycaps were nicer than my original Logitech, and has a standard layout should new keycaps be necessary. All for $50 (could have been even cheaper if my GF didn't want wireless). In contrast, I bought a "nice" backlit wireless keyboard with some kind of scissor switch from Logitech several years back for $80 (I thought I was ballin' then) that makes me want to scream now. So mushy and unresponsive! I tried to give my GF the old Logitech when we were setting up her new home office so she wouldn't have to get a new keyboard, but about a day into using it, she asked me to get her one like mine (Logitech G610). Enter the Velocifire. I still prefer the Cherry Browns that I have, but it is close. My GF loves typing on it, so I am happy. Unfortunately, I absolutely hate doing any real typing on my laptop now (though the keys are still better than the old Logitech wireless).
     
  13. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Likes Received:
    1,419
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    .
    I've owned various mechanical keyboards with different switches. DASkeyboards, Steelseries, Corsair, Duckyshine, and the classic IBM Model M. NKRO with PS/2 connection FTW!

    But my favorite board comes from these folks:

    http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/

    Highly recommend them, excellent build quality. You can customize whatever you'd like. I like that they offer a $15 switch tester to sample the various Cherry flavors.

    As much as I enjoy typing on them, I've moved over to an ergonomic cheapo rubber dome Microsoft keyboard. Mostly because I'm a Counter-Strike nerd who prefers to shave off miliseconds from a keystroke.
     
  14. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    @supertransformingdhruv

    I'm hardly familiar with the mech keyboard community let alone the euro one. I do know local Makerspaces but I don't know if those communities intersect.
     
  15. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    I love those keycaps. Might have to break my own rule and get me some.

    Where can you get boards for this? I could get into making a custom split, and have a 3D printer to make the chassis.

    As I posted in the other keyboard thread (which I'd seen before this thread), I currently use a pair of WhiteFoxes.
     
  16. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,923
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    20190421_074455.jpg

    Purchased Corsair K63 2 weeks ago with some Best Buy credit I had to use. I needed something wireless for this living room setup. I used to have Cherry Reds in the past but have been using Browns for the last few years. My original issue with the Reds is that I would miss key presses when typing fast. But I do prefer the lighter feel.

    Overall quality of the product is high. No problems with the wireless turnoff. This is also my first TenKeyLess board but I'll cope.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
  17. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    I'm no camperstriker but after realizing that 99% of what I do on a PC now is games I dropped my hipster keyboards for a Corsair K70 Lux with the silent switches.

    They're a little mushy compared to the best noisy ones, but they're fast, light, and moderately silent ... I guess technically they're just muffled, but now I can game with open cans without feeling like I'm at machinegun meet.

    Also, after coming back to a full-sized keyboard, screw tenkeyless hipster format, the numpad is incredibly useful and I use it all the time.
     
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    I saw the PCBs on Amazon for $35
     
  19. InsanityOne

    InsanityOne Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ankeny, Iowa
    If you are talking about where to get PCBs for the ReDox Manuform design I posted from Thingiverse then there isn't such a thing. Due to the curvature / shape of the two halves a PCB would not work, thus you have to hand-wire the swtches / LEDs / controllers, etc. Here is an example image of what that would look like using that design:

    [​IMG]

    This builder did kind of a messy job, it could be a lot cleaner, but it is all about how much time you want to put into it. If you were talking about the USB C controllers themselves you can buy the Elite-C from Keebio: https://keeb.io/collections/split-k...cro-replacement-arduino-compatible-atmega32u4 or you can buy the QMK Proton C directly from OLKB: https://olkb.com/parts/qmk-proton-c

    If you are talking about where to get the actual PCB's to build your own split keyboard like an ErdoDox, MiniDox, ReDox, Arteus, etc. Then you can start by looking at either https://shop.profetkeyboards.com/ or https://falba.tech/ as those two have a very robust collection of parts. Other than that, I would recommend looking at the following two resources for everything you could ever want to know about every split keyboard out there: https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards and https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19-rTWbp8SCKdZFByPZu3RT8NSF8vVddDe8WL6R6b1qQ/edit#gid=0
     
  20. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Oof, yeah that's messy. Perhaps better-suited toward wire-wrapping, or a flexible PCB.
     

Share This Page