Samsung Galaxy Buds EARS Measurements (RAW)

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by Lyander, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    @La Cenric mentioning them in another thread reminded me that I've been meaning to post these, whoops.

    I've been messing around working on my own comp curve for headphones using the SBAF one as a baseline in my spare time, but it's been a messy enough process that I'm scared to even consider trying one for IEMs. RAW measurements it is (plus I think there might be a channel balance issue with either my EARS, upstream, headphones, or just the supplied HEQ curve— need to get my hands on more headphones to try and fine tune things).

    [​IMG]

    I got these as a gift about two weeks back and have been using them as makeshift earplugs and commute 'buds since. Life in the metro means a shit ton of ambient noise, especially when you live next to multiple ongoing construction sites. They're alright for portable use, I don't really need exceptional sound quality in portable settings so while these are far from ultra-engaging I can't really complain especially considering how much I spent on them (that is, zilch). I posted two-day impressions over on Torq's forum that I generally still stand by apart from the fact that I've since experienced a crap ton of stutters and drop outs even while listening with phone in hand, less than a foot away. Samsung's Scalable codec is a variable one, which allegedly helps ensure consistent connection even in less-nice conditions. My experience is that it's still pretty rough around the edges and that it still sounds bland even in "ideal" conditions, with really bad latency all throughout. RTINGS measures 372ms latency, well above the point where I'd say it becomes annoying. Good usable range though, I get maybe 10m with direct line of sight to my phone before it starts crapping out. That figure goes down to about 3m with a couple walls and a flipping massive fridge in between.

    Comfort is about as good as I could hope for considering these aren't tiny, bullet-shaped IEMs; I had an annoying sore spot in one ear that eventually scabbed over and grew accustomed to the irritation, now I can wear these without any real problem provided I don't keep reseating them in my ear. Others report exceptionally good comfort and fit— yay for them.

    TL;DR is that these are tuned to the Harman target curve (unsurprising considering Samsung owns their souls now) but sound really bass-shy despite what measurements say and what others report— mid and low bass sound like wet burps to me, and even though the treble looks polite I find these fatiguing at higher volumes, or at moderate volumes over extended listening sessions. My finding the bass lacking I'm aware could be due to my growing accustomed to low-end-heavy headphones, but I've honestly no idea about the treble.

    Attacks are slow and rounded with hardly any noticeable trailing decays in midrange on up, already mentioned bass is lean and untextured; imaging is pretty good, bit indistinct compared to what I'm used to with flat as a pancake headstage depth, only has alright width comparable to HD650. No real sense of room ambiance, and the background is grey as heck to boot. On the whole I find the overall sonic profile to be kinda boring but simultaneously fatiguing. Good general purpose set for most I think, I imagine some would consider this a "reference" tuning (something I've yet to grow accustomed to) but it isn't something I personally care for. The tonal balance makes it surprisingly easy to pick out macrodetail in recordings, which I occasionally struggle with on the Klipsch HP-3 on my main rig due to its midrange trough (and the fact that my upstream is also decidedly on the near end of mid-range, haha).

    The treble was enough of a bother to me that on day 3 I took a leaf out of @james444's book and wedged a 2-ply of Twinings teabag paper between the nozzle and the eartips— it goes a long way towards reducing fatigue and making these easier to listen to for extended periods of time, and improves passive isolation to boot. The aggressive front filter probably adds in a bunch of distortion as well since the overall sonic presentation becomes loads fuzzier and more warmbutt even taking the FR differences into account, but I rather don't mind:

    [​IMG]


    Android users have access to the Galaxy Wearables app, which offers access to 5 additional EQ profiles, running through them briefly:
    • Bass Boost attenuates midrange on up, sounds mushy and claustrophobic, really dislike this and I like bass.
    • Soft pats the treble down a bit, this is my fave filter for stock form because it makes the Buds listenable for extended periods of time
    • Dynamic is v-shaped, not really like the Klipsch because it makes vocals sound nasally and brittle, plus it's somehow more fatiguing than the HP-3.
    • Clear attenuates bass frequencies, making for a more clinical, "hi-res" sound— not a huge fan but it does work for some tracks. Big no-no for podcasts.
    • Treble Boost does exactly what it claims. Really, really, really don't care for this one. Ouch. This is supposed to be a close approximation of diffuse field tuning, which means I'm now very much against it.
    antdroid over on forum.headphone.com posted some really useful measurements comparing the EQ profiles in the Galaxy Wearables app to stock. Either way I'm trying to figure out how to run measurements though my mobile into REW so I can take my own measurements of the EQ presets, but his squiggles seem to match my subjective impressions already so I'll likely not bother unless I'm really bored :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  2. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Kudos for going to the effort. I got mine free as a bonus with my S10e. I didn't expect much in the way of performance, but they came in even below those.
    Ditto. With Developer Options enabled, it looks like it let's you select all of the phone's supported codecs, but I think it only uses whatever it wants to. No differences in audio performance consistency in connectivity with any of the available options. I haven't noticed any significant latency though. I've watched some Netflix with them and things sound pretty in sync.
    This is my default setting. Only one that sounds anywhere near natural. I only use them for podcasts at the gym or watching Netflix when I'm stuck somewhere killing time.

    Ergonomically they're pretty good. I find them comfortable and they stay in securely. The charging case is nice and compact and fits in your pocket comfortably. I don't use them for very long sessions so charging capacity isn't an issue. There's no active sound cancellation but isolation is decent. The touch controls are reasonably responsive and they're decent for phone conversations. There's an ambient sound feature but there was really bad channel imbalance initially and I haven't bothered to try it after a SW update. The sounds that came through were pretty whistly and distorted anyway.

    tl;dr They're not bad for free :p
     
  3. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I'm glad I got them for free because if I'd paid MSRP for these I'd be galled, haha. Intuition says if this weren't Samsung it might cost about half what they're asking for it, but I've not tried many truly wireless IEMs so might need to establish norms first. Guess I'm not a fan of Harman's IEM curve is my TL;DR, at least some of the EQ presets aren't horrible.

    And eh, I'm just measuring what I have on hand now to try and build a database of sorts, maybe get my measurement technique down because even knowing this wouldn't be easy getting repeatable results is a pain in the butt. These coming into my hands was just excellent timing, hahaha.

    Microphone quality is absolutely horrible IMO. Apparently there are two sets built into the Buds and depending on how much ambient noise the external mics are picking up they sometimes use the "inner" one, which seems to be picking up vibrations from inside the ear. That's when quality really tanks. The external ones aren't very much better though.
     
  4. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I haven't actually asked the people on the other end, but they don't seem to have trouble hearing me. I think I might have even had conversations in the gym where the background noise level is horrendous (which is why I'm wearing them in the first place).
     
  5. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Haha my friends (surprisingly I have some of those) don't really complain about call quality, but cell service where I live is a bad joke to begin with so crap sound is just something you get used to. I've tried recording stuff through the Buds, listening back is kinda painful :))
     
  6. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Just as an additional datapoint, managed to borrow my sister's stock S10 IEMs long enough to compare the two. Not sure how much I can trust distortion numbers on an EARS rig, but the room was as quiet as it was ever gonna be when I snapped these. Still would take with a gargantuan salt stone until I get everything sorted and ratified, though.

    [​IMG]
    Purple= Samsung Galaxy Buds; Violet= Samsung S10 stock IEMs

    Higher bass distortion on the GBuds explains why I felt the bass sounded like ass. Overall FR balance is better on the GBuds (the S10 IEMs are a bit too v-shaped even for me) so I'm pretty content with the wireless kids, treble/upper-mids and minor performance issues aside (again, considering I spent literally zilch on them :p).

    Curious what that 7.8kHz distortion spike on the GBuds might be. Doesn't correlate with anything in FR or subjectives, could be a fluke but it reappears with multiple tests. S10 stock THD seems to follow FR, which makes me skeevy of taking it as-is.

    Galaxy Buds Distortion:
    [​IMG]

    S10 stock IEMs Distortion:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  7. Renekton

    Renekton Acquaintance

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    Hey, I have Samsung Buds 2

    IM A NOOB ON EARPHONES
    and I havent heard any other good ones
    So I cant give any valuable comaptisons.
    But heres tiny impressions:

    Theyre comfortable and they work
    I dont care about noise cancelling. Transparency ("ambient" mode) is cool and convenient.

    Sound?
    Small stage
    Not so micro-technical
    Great tone though. Dat ass GRRR!

    The opposite of lushious or seductive, no it's in your face mids and it addicts.

    Cant say about treble, tbh i tolerate all kinds of treble. Its ok? Its there yes¿
    not too much and rarely annoying

    Mids are sublime, sugary and tasty and main stage focus. Not so textured, but clear and... Natural??? Just this whole sound is a bit analytical but its not about tiny or layered mucro nah, the fun here is the transparent big macro mid mids. Its just... A dry and boring and not musical, but at the same time bold and transparent sound where the boosted mids tell u "shhh its ok im slim and dry but my ass is warm, f**k those mids f**k them hard", and I always wanted a mid forward presentation like this so Im a happy camper?

    Bass is there and its ok and it extends deep-ish and its fast? Its there, its even a bit colored barely, but still tucked away under the mids and supporting everything seamlessly.

    To touch on the soundstage again, as an IEM/buds noob and an HD600 lover simp, I miss the grandiosity and scale and engineering hidden magic endless cathedral aura. But still the buds 2 are fun in the extra forward 1-2kHz way, makes hd600 seem laid back and koss sportapro seem dark lmao.

    Its nicotine tho, not something u want 24/7 like chocolate like hd600, nono, buds 2 r nicotine, heyyy I like ur tiktok

    P.S.: For lifelike "youre there" in your head pinpoint right there 3D asmr hrtf etc etc tho, wow, and with that extended flat sounding bass and bold mids, f*ck me, "e36 touge raw pov" search it on youtube, yikes (as big and epic and galactic as hd600 sounds), here actually buds 2 are better and make my whole self and boddy feel the space and place and even vibrations as if im in the car seat, even when im in bed (yes my pc seat is an old scrapyard mercedes c class passanger seat), i mean, its so superhuman magic hack to be transported in the middle of an event... Ye its not a musical headphone but it offers this overall clarity ok my head thinks its riding along im there my eyes tell me im at home, and whew when im in the mood for air drums day dream about cars yeah hd600 puts you in such a good theatre representation cinema oculus rift of what has happened, but buds 2 puts me there man, i hear the gforces.
     
  8. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I get what you mean, wireless IEMs are very much a convenience thing first and foremost with the sound not being anything close to "immersive", at least relative to other IEMs. I actually dunno what happened to these, I remember giving them to a family member and then they just vanished into the aether a bit afterwards.

    Crin's squiggle:
    graph (1).png

    Still, just going by what I think most people would be using them for (listening to lossy streaming platforms, YouTube videos, VoIP, etc.) I felt they were perfectly serviceable. Stock voicing on the Buds 2 seems like it'd be more generally accessible with a bit more level treble (allowing for the resonance peak there) and a less forward upper midrange than the original Buds, plus that greater low end rumble, but from what I remember it just doesn't feel like they have enough speed even relative to something like the HD600 out of a not-underpowered amp, which kinda muddles things overall.

    I get what you mean about the midrange I think. It's like how you can see more of the general shape of sonic images vs the textures, like how Samsung (fittingly) processes photos using stock camera?

    I've since moved on to wired IEMs out of an LDAC receiver (Andromeda 2020s out of a FiiO BTR7); the gross resolution is there but the treble can very much be all over the place for me. I already think that the treble quality on the Andromeda 2020 is rougher than on the Solaris even with the Andros shoved in as deeply as possible
     
  9. Renekton

    Renekton Acquaintance

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    Update, yea I played myself with these tbh xd Honeymoon only lasted a few days, havent touched them.

    Not to mention I didnt even research fully.
    In fact I instantly felt utterly dumb seeing ↑ (@ Lyander) that galaxy buds 1 vs buds 2 "squiggle" lol.

    Buds 1 wouldve been a less bad waste of cash for me (I seek flat or neutral to very mid-forward audio gear! I don't think I'm ever selling or replacing my main, somewhat neglected, but loved until the end of time, wife - HD600)

    Frequency response graphs aside, tho, I'm sure even without having had seen graphs, I slowly was already realizing I don't really enjoy samsung buds 2, like, at all.

    I guess I still kinda liked the mids¿... But then again, the whole sound is SO STERILE, no musicality, dead. Havent touched them since the first probably one or two weeks of having them xD

    ... Like... No single technical ability was obviously wrong, and yet all my songs had no emotion. Energy? Yeah. Sure, sort of! Clarity? Absolutely... But like...... I already get each week that same (generic, empty) experience from the cashier at the corner store casually flirting - NOTHING special. Yeah, she is smarter and more well mannered than average, and hot, she probably even likes me back to a reasonable extent... But what Im saying is. We could hook up, hypothetically - clear as day. But it isn't actually going anywhere AT ALL, I haven't even asked this one out yet. Any deep connection or romance are pure, cheap, empty fantasy. That's how I feel about samsung.

    I guess they at least worked great for POV BMW e36 (STRAIGHT SIX HYPE, BOYS, AMIRITE) videos, at least. Puts you there. You are in each rattle, vibration and kerb stomp. That at least was visceral by memory, like good Virtual Reality, presence feeling (retrograde note add: no real stage, tho, claustrophobic imaging)... So ye at least I got one or two non-drug emotional highs out of Buds 2! e36 videos are always epic.

    Now.
    HOWEVER.
    On the other hand.
    A winner.
    My Senn HD250BT means business. To me - a killer, hidden unicorn headphone (very exaggerated, hence the "to me").
    Tuned for "club sound" btw, not typical Senn (word on forums is it tries to sould like HD25, but idk)...... But, nono, thats so far from the point, they just WORK, they produce sound... ... ... But, like. With joy somehow.

    They have very quickly, and do to this very day, mostly replaced my HD600 for head time, cant put these down on many occasions, I cant get bored of them - for the now roughly 3 years ownership.
    They r FUN.
    Got the same for my new gf btw. And she wasnt even my gf yet back then yet, Im telling you, theyre super cool. She still loves and uses them regularly, too!!!
    She loves them ALOT, to her they seem to feel as special as do junky old soviet
    (usually copies of Leica, Fujifilm etc)
    rangefinder 35mm film photo-cameras feel to me.
    Like. World is full of them. But they r SEEE-XYYY, YES, BABY!!! Oh, and they even deliver results, too.
    We love sennheiser, mom always reaches that conclusion, too, btw, lol, even when Im not actively hyping her about it. Mom really knows, tho. She even immediately evaluated a Koss as super good, without me telling her ANYTHING in advance. Price, brand, type - went full blind. Oof, I rambled, boring day for me here, all nostalgic!

    HD250BT r comfy(ish), simple, they convey any genre quite well enough... Weeell, I do wish they had just a little bit more 1-4kHz. And initially I had urgent necessities to eq the bass down -6. Strong AND boomy. After getting partially accustomed, like a month, I started fumbling so much for some "perfect" digital correction. Delusional on my part lol, sennheiser app be only a 3 band eq... At least they have on board memory for whatever the last setting was...
    Bla bla bla etc etc etc, eventually I f***ed off with the app, just reverted stock and used le gear for listening to le tracks... Aaand I did some VLC settings tinkering, but generally I legitimately use my bluetooth to fully listen to the music, like, actual 98% of the time!
    Context: HD600 has been more like 50/50 for me, tinkering vs pure enjoyment ratio.

    WHAT ACTUALLY MATTERS:
    HD250BT just work. They get out of the way of the actual music for me. Not by being groundbreaking, but by being cute. They are NOT technically impressive or special. I will talk alot more now about how I just like the tuning.

    ENOUGH SAID THO LIKE. IM SUPER SMUG ABOUT THE BLACK LITTLE BLUETOOTH TOOL, DO YOU SEE, I CAN TALK ALL DAY ABOUT NITPICKING TECHNICAL STUFF and yet the total experience is worlds apart (post got long, so reminder, context here is: I forgot about even owning buds 2 after a few weeks of getting them, lmao, meanwhile HD250BT always finds use. I've had that for like 3 years and counting.

    Oh, also fair to note, I inherently like on-ears. So HD250BT really fits me personally in many ways.
    But still, just, I was surprised how... Bad. An expensive samsung can be - and since I foster so much emotion about this, in the end I'm not actually trying to convey specs or tech anymore. So here is the actual bottom line, actions speak:
    Yes, I ditched the korean supermodel for a low income german bastard child. No hesitation, I just ghosted samsung buds. HD250BT my real "bud".

    Idk how to even wrap this post up lol, Im legit smug about owning sennheiser. To the point i dont wana stop typing this increasingly useless post as I am ongoingly intensely vibing to one kpop track on repeat in VLC android rn, but on my sennheiser. /4 Minutes - Crazy/. Timeless classic imo and flawlessly perfect track from beginning to end. (Not to mention btw the music video for that song seems to my eyes just as inspired, deep passion project, beautiful moment)

    Some more disclaimer now!!! Warranted for all readers of my prolonged hype!
    Here:
    HD250BT is DEFINITELY a rather low/mid-fi sound (mostly inoffencive tho, at least, but, still,) FAR from technically exciting!
    I just value it so much mainly because it's tuned for fun. Maybe even some intangibles, too - I like the design and use. All of it tastes like home cooking. They deliver so much with so little. Achieving this is beyond engineering, it's performance art IMO!

    Was gona say something negative in contrast about samsung here and now again (nothing huge, just was about to reiterate sterile), but nah, let's leave on a positive note ^•^
    Have fun!!!

    ... Actually I just decided and busted out the little buds, before hitting Post, to see how I feel about them today, right now.
    ...
    Off the bat, worse than I even remember them xD technically superior (best case), but so BORING. Also, wow, maybe the highs are weird, or my ears are, or my preconceived notions. But they sound quite mid forward now, or I guess lower-treble neighbourhood... Oh. Im bored again, even evaluating them is boring. Let me try a few more songs tho still.

    ... The hell, this is so terrible, how did I ever survive more than 2 listening sessions ever. Directly after HD250BT, galaxy buds 2 now sound thin and shrill. Loud, but lifeless. Let me give them just a bit more chance, few more songs.
    ...
    Oh! Actually buds are superior in ways, like now I'm hearing speed and clarity in my test tracks that feels real - in subbas and in parts of the mids, compared to HD250BT. By "real" I mean Im pretty sure rn it's not a FR illusion, theres some speed and good clarity... Then again tho, tone and timbre SUUUCK. And HD250BT is faster and also less unnatural in treble - like, just a different flavor of plastic... Except Sennheiser at least has a sense of aesthetic and style when it decides to dress cheap. Like, ok, say HD250BT is rough and terrible in the upper mids, maybe, yeah, and yet it magically does not disappoint. Like going to a date at McDonalds, but we have humour, flow and completeness. Way more enjoyable and preferable (to me) than expensive restaurants and fancy ho's. Bros, sorry for being so abstract about all this, but that's the point, I'm emotional, Im shocked and disillusioned with the bland, sterile, offensively boring side of capitalism and engineering. How could someone just, like, sit there and decide one day "I want to bring Samsung Galaxy Buds 2 into existence in this world", yikes xD Give me back when BMW used to make good (if not great) cars. When feel was more important than fact sheets... Ouch, shrill sounds just reminded me im listening to samsung rn, but I shall try just a few more songs, my life going a bit slow these days...... I've always respected samsung from a distance, but my now actual experience is terrible. Like... Rn I wish I instead had my 10$, 3.5mm jack, xiaomi in-ear basic - had they not gotten broken.

    Are samsung, like, communists or something??? One size fits all and u better enjoy it...... I'm not enjoying it. Like wow... OMG NOT TO MENTION GUESS WHAT JUST HAPPENED LMAO audio dropout. For a split second (AAC, btw, that might play a role, but, like) while my dedicated audio smartphone is 1.2117feet away, has a snapdragon 855, has huge internal passive cooling, is screen lit up, at rest next to me, in VLC, not touched, not on battery saver or anything... IT JUST DID IT AGAIN YIKES IM NOT EVEN JOKING WHATSOEVER and this now JUST as I was about to talk more about how I started this post as a small ramble, welp.
    Even without dropping out twice for 0.69seconds, just, STILL, ok? EVEN STILL they r worse than I have been reminiscing them... being. Hence small ramble becoming big ramble, on my part. (Oh, ok fine. Big becoming bigger, tbh xD)

    Ok last song, I shall try to not overthink and sink it in.
    . . . Nope, yikeees, how can they butcher this song, how is that possible. Ouuuch. Forget the shrill, it somehow shaves off all emotion, thats an achievement in it of itself. Ooouch. Yiiikes. Holy wow damn. Many yikes. Brooo... RIP. Yeah. GG.

    Oh well. I shall learn to be way more sceptical of highly marketed fashion items. It's so much worse than I remember it, I gave 80euro for this trash.

    HD250BT used to be on discount for like a whole year in the past, so itself I got for 40euro. Like. I'm trying to be happy or constructive about exploring this topic here publicly and for myself, but. It really is such a pathetic story plot. BRO this one last song I tried on le samsung
    /song name: Firestar - R.E.D's Exclusive Fan-Made Character Song | Super Mecha Champions/
    is supposed to have so much musical depth, usually always touches me deeeeeeply, like, even on just my phone loudspeaker. On samsung it sounds like I'm listening to someone's long speech at some funeral. And brass percussion sounds like MIDI.

    Legit sorry for the extra depressive post XD

    On the bright side, bicycles are still a thriving, rich and vast hobby. Unlike sports cars, don't get me started on sports cars... THEY...... Ok yeah yeah don't xD Positive thoughts. Toyota our last hope. Pretty cool that they exist. And milfs. Life can be good.

    tl;dr: Samsung bad, Sennheiser good (not apples to apples, just my experience and rant)
     

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