Phono pre-amp discussion

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by JoshMorr, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    Why not just use a DAC then and avoid the hassle of vinyl in that situation? Seems more like marketing/ product differentiation to me. #shrug

    Edit: what TT and cart are you using btw?
     
  2. jpoyarzun

    jpoyarzun Acquaintance

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    It seems to me that you didn't understood the product nor experienced it, so yeah... #shrug... for Parks staying with tubes and suts could be a lot more easy/safe choice considering most of the consumers thinks like you.

    I tried it against an ear (834p 2k usd), primaire phono preamp (1k usd), and the ear 88pm (5k usd)... using a VPI traveller 2 and a VPI classic TT... Carts to test were a paradox denon 103 with retip (about 700 usd), lyra delos and a van der hul colibri (both carts over 5k usd)...
    About two pages back i wrote a little more about it :)
    Cheers,
     
  3. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    Wow, it sounds like quite a Phono pre since you compared it against some heavy hitters. I understand the digital aspects of the Puffin enough to be concerned since I (like most people) like to keep my analog chain - all analog. I greatly appreciate you bringing the Puffin to light. It is very affordable!
    What aspects of the Puffin exceeded the EAR 834P?
     
  4. jpoyarzun

    jpoyarzun Acquaintance

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    What i liked best was the two things... 1st the transparency (changing the cartridge, or even VTA and tracking force were a lot more noticeable in the puffin than any other phono stage that i tried). And the other was the tunability (idk if its a word) of the sound without losing any characteristic of the analog part of the sound... If you feel that your room is too echoey and the wall reflections are giving you a lot of sibbilances (for example), just turn the tilt a little and all is good again (super slight but also very effective).

    IMHO with vinyl is hard to get good hi-end sound (airiness and holography without harshness), so the difference between a super expensive cart and a cheaper one is mostly the detail and hi spectrum of audio. Puffin is excelent in retaining this part of the sound.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  5. jpoyarzun

    jpoyarzun Acquaintance

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    A little pic of my little setup (please note my CCA and then the pair of puffins on the mid shelf) ...

    [​IMG]
     
  6. HotRatSalad

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    My biggest problem with vinyl playback is noise floor. Now that I have a higher end speaker amp and headphone amp and a good DAC, my LPs sound less good I guess. Even on very clean and quiet LP's the noise floor and background bother me. Does the puffin help in that respect ? I still enjoy playing LP's but since modi multibit I listen to them less and less.
     
  7. Donald North

    Donald North Friend

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    Some recommendations for quieter vinyl playback:
    1. Get a vacuum record cleaning machine. Essential for anyone into vinyl. You don’t need to spend a lot - I started with the Record Doctor available from Audio Advisor. From there you can progress to a Loricraft and ultimately an ultrasonic machine.
    2. The way the RIAA EQ is performed in your phonostage also influences the audibility of surface noise and pops. For years I used one with feedback-based EQ and a few years ago I built one of my own design using passive EQ split into two stages. One surprise change: pops are now much less dramatic.
     
  8. jpoyarzun

    jpoyarzun Acquaintance

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    I think that to get good, really good analog sound is way more expensive than the same level of quality on digital.... so your results are very normal.

    Do you think the high noise floor in your case comes from lp dirt or is inherent noise of your analog chain?

    If the latter is the case; i think the puffin can help. The design principle is that ADCs are very sensitive and can capture all the sonic information that comes from the cartridge without any direct amplification. Then on the digital side the RIAA eq and the gain to be on line level is super transparent and don't add any noise (thats the beauty of the digital side of things), then the DAC delivers the sound without distortion or any added noise to your amplifier.

    But dont think the puffin is the only way to obtain this. there are lot of preamps that can get you proper amplification quality. I would like to get a glance of your setup... maybe we can sort it out :).
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  9. HotRatSalad

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    I clean all my LP's so it's not from dust or dirt. I think I just need a different or better phono pre amp. All gear in profile.
     
  10. jpoyarzun

    jpoyarzun Acquaintance

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    How black your background is when your stylus is not touching the vynil?

    Imho the puffin is another beast compared to a classic opamp phono preamp like the one you own (although i didnt listen to your phono, i have seen measurements and it seems that is kind of noisy (distorted).. The puffin is super silent but there are other super silent phono preamps like the nagra bps, the rogue triton and my old primaire. All of them cost at least twice than my puffin.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  11. HotRatSalad

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    It's about the same as every other phono pre amp I've heard, not silent like from my DAC. I have not heard many or anything higher up the chain honestly. I don't have any complaints about the sound but it's possible it's not the quietest phono stage. Contemplating selling the table pre amp and stylus and saving up for a better setup. Not sure I want to invest that kind of money it though. I could just be lazy and get a new pair of headphones and another DAC instead and spend much less. I kind of want both !
     
  12. jpoyarzun

    jpoyarzun Acquaintance

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    Imho, the rest of your analog setup is quite good... but the signal noise ratio for your phono is -50db... super noisy (normal is over 65 and good is over 70 in phono stages... DACs are over 90)
    You can do better for sure by just getting a better phono stage.
     
  13. HotRatSalad

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    Picked up a new Mani recently, I can't believe how good it is for $129 I do not miss my previous phono preamp at all at 3.5x the cost. I wonder what Schiit could do at like a $499 price point phono preamp. Would certainly be end game for me. I have not listened to many records since I fell in love with my headphone setup with modi multibit about a year ago. Was contemplating selling off the TT and carts I have but not now. Now I'm looking at denon carts and been spinning LP's everyday again. :punk:
     
  14. GoodSchiit

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    I got the Uturn turntable from Kickstarter and also went with a Haglabs Bugle Phone Pre Amp. The Bugle was excellent until I damaged the wall wart in a move.

    While waiting for a new wall wart, I purchased the Uturn Orbit based on these reviews thinking it would be as good as the Bugle. Unfortunately, I found the Orbit to be not very good in Bass, Mids or Higher notes; basically quite bland across the spectrum. It made me wonder if its my hearing or the survey was tilted towards the Orbit? I noted a similar theme on Youtube reviews where the reviewer slayed the Mani vs the Orbit. Comments in youtube were not favourable about the reviewer.

    I bought a Mani which I found be nearly as good as the Bugle. The Bugle I bought was Jim's high spec version using vishay quality parts. Cost me $500 and IMO it's a very good competitor to other phone preamps costing 3 - 4 x more.
     
  15. Johnston98

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    Any thoughts on Lejonkou phono preamps? The guy is OCD as hell with how he tests each component for it’s sonic characteristics. Everything I’ve heard from him has been pretty damn good though.
     
  16. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Quick question: when connecting a SUT to a preamp, what's the preferred way to deal with ground? connect at SUT? At preamp? Tie ground between SUT and preamp?
     
  17. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

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    My sut has a lift switch, allows you to see what ground arrangement works best. It's clearly better in my case in ground=on position. My turntable doesn't even have an external ground wire! I'm guessing it will go tt ground to sut ground and that's the end of it.
     
  18. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    In theory you would want to connect the turntable/tonearm chassis ground to your cable's shield sleeve, which would in turn connect to your SUT's casing and/or shield winding, which would in turn connect to the preamp's chassis ground. It's going to depend on the actual circuit configuration of each stage and the stray capacitances induced in each run. Nice to have the flexibility of a ground lift.
     
  19. VonAtlas

    VonAtlas New

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    I've had similar experiences until recently... I'm getting some form of whine that is visible in digital recordings (viewing the signal in spectrum analyzer mode in audacity)... I have it set up as record player->Mani->audio mixer->digital recorder taking in xlr inputs. The whine wasn't there before, and it shifts in tone over time. it looks like a two dimensional double helix, slowly criss crossing and then separating and converging again. When I disconnect the Mani from the mixer, the whine completely disappears from the digital recorder, and using microphones into those same inputs doesn't yield that noise.

    I recently found out there's a strong local radio broadcast, and I heard someone mention it could interfere with the signal because of the insane amplification needed to boost the signal from the record player... Anyone else having this problem or have an idea on mitigating it?
     
  20. HotRatSalad

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    Sorry not sure how you could mitigate that issue. I have heard about people having this issue with mani but they revised it to have shielding or filtering. Not sure if you have a mani from before or after the change.
     

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