Eddie Current customer service story

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by thoth, Dec 6, 2019.

?

How much is EC responsible for the lost amp?

  1. < 5%

    40.6%
  2. 25% (give or take)

    21.7%
  3. 50%

    23.2%
  4. 75%

    10.1%
  5. > 95%

    4.3%
  1. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    The only person responsible is Craig receiving that broken amplifier back if he did request it. It's on him to tell Thoth to have it insured and whatever else. If Craig doesn't want to make things right with the customer, then we get posts like this and deter folks from doing business with him.

    Insurance is to protect the seller only. A buyer should have no say in whether the package should be insured or not. The seller decided to sell an amplifier to an international customer, he chose the shipping carrier(s), he packages the item, he chooses the shipping carrier, he controls the shipment to handing it off to the carrier and then after on how well that item was originally packed, labelled, etc. and if the seller put insurance on it.

    Lesson learned for Thoth is before you spend on a big purchase make sure you have purchase protection in case you get hassled by the seller.
     
  2. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    So if Craig wants the amp, he has to tell Thoth to ship it back? Okay.

    Then Craig has to tell Thoth to insure the shipment? Okay.

    Then what if the shipment gets lost? Who's getting reimbursed for the insurance? Is it Craig or Thoth?

    If it is Thoth, then why does Craig still have to give him a full refund in that case?

    And actually, that's not hypothetical. It is the reality we are in right now. Craig did not tell Thoth to insure (but he did not tell Thoth to not insure either). Craig did tell Thoth he wants the amp back. We're just missing the part where Craig has the amp and has the option of either refunding Thoth or repairing the amp and sending it back to Thoth.
     
  3. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Then they've changed their practice of sending an invoice up front with all costs and an amount due in deposit. Seems odd; sloppy at best. Hard to believe, though. Maybe check your email on this too.

    The website does make very clear that deposits are not refundable, and warranty work is non-inclusive of shipping costs. We can debate wether or not this falls under the category of warranty work (technically it does), but I'd see it as a good practice for winning and keeping customers to not revert to the letter of the law in this case with DOA amp. That's up to Craig, though.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Haha. We can see who the liberals are, who the conservatives are, and who the folks in the middle are. Let's not go there. I love you guys all the same. The thoughtful and respectful discourse brings me to tears and how I imagined George Washington's time in office.
     
  5. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Since we're dealing in theoretical, say everything was insured.
    1. Craig ships the amp to Thoth, 24% import duty
    2. Thoth ships the amp to Craig and he gets it, a few hundred bucks duty, might pass is to the seller
    3. Craig ships the repaired amp back, 24% more import duty.

    That's 50% the cost of the amp. International sucks, we're reading here and other forums how great some amp is, you get a passion and need to have it thinking it's absolutely end game even if it may not be, that's what you dream, overstretch just to afford it but no more than the amp price and basic shipping.

    I feel for you.
     
  6. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    LOL indeed. Everything is politics.

    But I'll stop now, no point continuing this discussion as nothing discussed here will resolve anything for Thoth. You have my sympathies dude, even more so considering the cost of that amplifier (I had no idea it was $7k!).

    I'll just leave this quote here as I feel it is appropriate to close out my posts:

     
  7. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I understand that expensive import fees on top of an already expensive item suck, but I’ve seen so many transactions go south when trying to circumvent those fees that I would just bite the bullet. If you can reasonably afford a $3-$4k amp, then you should have enough socked away for the associated fees. And if you don’t, probably best not to try to import a super expensive item. I know this is small comfort now that all of this has happened, just my thoughts on the matter.
     
  8. thoth

    thoth Acquaintance

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    There wouldn't be another 24% on point 3. I announced the customs that I'm sending for repair and will get it back, and they assured me I wont pay import fees 2nd time.
     
  9. JK47

    JK47 Guest


    After zero deliberation... JUDGE WAPNER DECIDES IN CRAIG'S FAVOR.

    I've dealt with Craig and Judi numerous times, and it can be frustrating sometimes, but OP this whole situation takes ignorance to a new level. Trying to save a few $$$ by not sending insured either direction is simply retarded. I'm not trying to say you deserve this, but for the love of god, it's on you. Four and soon to many more pages of bullshit with people arguing without all the facts that you failed to provide... mods please lock this thread.
     
  10. thoth

    thoth Acquaintance

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    Just checked, no mention of package fees until the final invoice, (when the amp was ready) where I get this line:
    Shipping & Ha... 2 protective containers/priority express USPS/ insured $486.80

    At this point I asked Judy to give me sizes and weights of the boxes. Only after that she acknowledged that there are $50 per "protective container". Turns out protective containers were some generic boxes with some rather thin foam inside.
     
  11. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    Why wouldn't you request to know the final cost of your amp with shipping prior to sending a deposit? In any event, the answer doesn't really matter. Big bummer all around, man. I hope this has been a valuable lesson. Sucks that you have to learn the hard way. Truly, it does.
     
  12. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    My rant on "it's an Amazon world", which I read as "I'm a customer and thus entitled to free lunches world".
    As big as Amazon & Walmart are, they are not the world. As a small business owner which is a medical practice, I get this entitlement mentality all the time in a double way - my customers add medical care should be free mentality on top of the everyday customer free lunch mentality. Interestingly the only demographic who don't suffer from this mentality are the truly low-income working class, and it is too them that we give the real breaks.

    The OP gambled and pinched his pennies in numerous ways already mentioned. Like @purr1n says, it's a boutique business and there is significant risk even if you do everything conservative (ship via proper shippers, insurance, documentation, pay the taxes your legally obliged to, etc.). Sorry @thoth, but I think your SOL.
     
  13. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Boutique businesses that start as such and sell good products end up becoming larger businesses in large part due to their customer service. You don't have to be Amazon or Walmart to reap the benefits of sometimes biting the bullet for good PR. Schiit or Audeze are good examples of that.
     
  14. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Well yes, but there are caveats and realities. Craig is just a one man shop, a somewhat eccentric audiophile and engineer scratching out a living is he not? Does he really have "larger business" ambitions, and even if he did would they in any way be realistic? Given how the OP slithered his way around any and all CYA best practices, would Craig really benifit that much by simply delivering the OP out of the consequences of his errors?
     
  15. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    I’ve intentionally avoided weighing in here, partly because I’m not a litigator and partly because I don’t think we have all the facts.

    I will say that when I draft supply agreements, these considerations and more are hotly negotiated. Given that the purchaser specifically asked for the item to not be insured doesn’t weigh in his favor. Without insurance, I’m not sure what the default rule is for risk of loss for a shipment from California to Romania. Under the UCC it looks like the default rule is risk of loss shifts to buyer upon tender to the carrier (source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-509). In sophisticated commercial arrangements, the agreement always specifies when risk of loss passes, typically by reference to a particular Incoterms: https://www.export.gov/article?id=Incoterms-Overview.

    An unfortunate mess that could have pretty easily been avoided. Buy insurance unless you can easily self-insure.

    The above does not constitute legal advice.
     
  16. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    I think we can all agree it was a terrible decision on Thoth's part to request that package not be insured or not using a payment method with purchase protection. It's nuts to have that expensive of an item shipped to you halfway across the world and have no recourse if something goes wrong enroute. Maybe losing a couple grand is nothing to you. I don't know.

    Can't blame Craig, he did what you asked which is not to insure it. I would have gotten clear what his policies were if that amplifier was received dead on arrival, and if so what kind of options you would have. You didn't do enough due diligence before you bought it, which is foolish considering the cost and how small of a business Eddie Current is.
     
  17. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    The question is less would it benefit him, but rather would it stop him from losing business, whether that matters/he cares about it or not. Considering thoth's experience I personally would think twice about purchasing anything new directly from EC now.
     
  18. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Spoken like someone who never had to deal with this situation. If you had to pay 20-25% extra on any of your gear skipping on import duty gets really tempting really fast. I'm saying it's hard to put yourself in Thoth's shoes.
     
  19. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Why do I get the sense if this was basically Amy other brand that they'd get picked apart.
     
  20. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I don't know, I sort of have the opposite reaction. If I was looking to gamble around customs and other costs like @treboR says Craig is willing to do what you ask. This might be from a certain naivete on his part, but then again maybe not.

    That said, my expectations are such that going into it I already know Craig is not Amazon.

    I have purchased some items from Friends here, sometimes insured and sometimes not. I understood what I was doing however and agreed to the terms. Thing about risk is that it is risk (it sometimes happens, sometimes not) but you have to understand the risk and be willing/able to bear it.

    All that said, it sucks to be @thoth right now and I don't really want to rub salt in the wounds...
     

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