Digital Cables

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by starence, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. bixby

    bixby Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,987
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    @AllanMarcus

    I have not tried that one but have used their $1.60 24/28 USB cables. Replaced an expensive Wireworld USB cable I liked for a long time. I have moved back upstream to Oyaide for my main speaker and headphone setups. In all cases, shorter always sound better to me than longer. Let us know how it works out!
     
  2. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Alamos, NM
    Home Page:
    Will Do. You probably know me and cables; the chance of me hearing a difference it virtually nill. I will report on perceived quality, flexibility, and strain relief.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
  3. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Alamos, NM
    Home Page:
    Cable came in. It's not as flexible as a printer USB cable, but certainly flexible enough to route where it needs to go. It has a very robust sleeve, but I have never had a USB cable's sleeve cause me an issue. Seems well made on the outside.

    I ran the bit perfect test on my RME ADI-2 DAC and both the printer cable and the new Monoprice cable passed.

    When I hold each cable to my ear, they sound identical.
     
  4. Baten

    Baten Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2018
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    EU
    A most essential test :D
     
  5. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Likes Received:
    993
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Yeah, that's to keep the 1s in. The 0s thread themselves onto the wire like beads, so they can't really slip off, but the 1s travel lengthwise. So if they ever wobble off-axis, the pointy end of the numeral can poke through the skin of the wire and it can get stuck -- or even pass completely through the insulation and escape.

    In stranded wire, the serifs at the base of the 1 lock into the strands and the twist stabilizes the numeral like rifling in a gun barrel. But in a solid-core wire the 1 can just rattle around inside the wire if tolerances aren't strict enough. The heavy Monoprice sleeve is a particularly elegant solution to this problem: It limits the bend radius so the 1s won't have to turn too sharply (in some fonts, polar moment of inertia is pretty high), and if a 1 should poke through the insulation anyway, the sleeve prevents it from fully escaping and possibly causing damage to other nearby equipment.
     
  6. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,696
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    NOVA
    Home Page:
    I highly recommend converting your 1's to Arial Rounded; they rocket down the wire faster, and become entangled with the zeros (like pickles and donuts) i.e., what the kids call "quantum tunneling." I saw a movie about it called Log Jammin'.
     
  7. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    Can confirm, science has agreed good typography makes the electrological pixies happy.
     
  8. TrivQuad

    TrivQuad New

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Most of my comparisons used a DIY server (Intel NUC 6CAYH (4GB RAM, 2TB SSD)), Allo Digione Signature, Bifrost 2, and Sonore SonicOrbiter SE. Analog cables were Transparent MusicLink Super. W4S amplifier and Silverline Audio Minuet Supreme Plus speakers.

    Coax 1. Black Cat Silverline75. Slightly analytical, great frequency extension, and wide soundstage. No treble glare or harshness. They used to be a relative bargain but the new iteration has risen in price.
    Coax 2. Straightwire Info-Link. Solid silver cable that sounds smooth and warm compared to the Black Cat. Good frequency extension and good soundstage depth. Slightly less detail than Black Cat but engaging without fatigue.
    Coax 3. DH Labs Silver Sonic D-750. Silver plated copper. Mid-way between The Black Cat and Straightwire on most parameters. Smooth and sweet sounding with a bit more detail and sharper delineation of soundstage than the Straightwire. The price almost discouraged me from trying this cable because it was reasonably priced ($140), but I like it a lot.
    If I stop concentrating on differences and just enjoy the music, I can really appreciate all three cables. For the moment I have settled on the Black Cat. Worth an audition through the Cable Company's lending library.
     
  9. kukur9

    kukur9 Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Have always wanted to hear a Black Cat meow. From what I read, they seem to sound relatively neutral and/or lean.

    I've become a fan of Silnote (note: NOT Siltech) Audio's cables–rich low mids/upper lows, good extension up top. Bought one and in my system/taste, it just beat out the Oyaide in the bass while maintaining the highs. Smooth as in "musically fluid," too. I still think the DB-510 is a great cable value no matter what serifs or sans you choose. The sans are so beautiful nowadays, and you don't even need any kind of Schitty videophile gear to see 'em.
     
  10. kukur9

    kukur9 Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
  11. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,171
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    What the duck. I bet they are still making a hefty profit even with a 60% discount...
     
  12. kukur9

    kukur9 Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Won’t argue with that, but a lot of products are that way, like clothes. Huge margins as I’m sure you know. These cable guys have families and overhead too, so I don’t begrudge them their pricing. These days you get a lot for your scratch, however. IMO
     
  13. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    A Cell
    I have once come across a site selling NBS cables with a 60 to 80 % rebate. Was I tempted? Not really I find north of 2000 $ for a pair of IC after rebate still a bit steep. Sometimes for fun I would like to know the R&D and the marketing budgets of companies.
     
  14. beemerphile

    beemerphile Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Danielsville, GA USA
    [HYPERBOLE=on]
    With enough of a marketing budget, you don't need R&D. With enough of an R&D budget, you don't need marketing.
    [HYPERBOLE=off]
     
  15. zonto

    zonto Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    OPTICAL CABLES

    Has anybody done any comparisons of different optical cables in their systems? I know the interface is generally frowned upon vs. S/PDIF coaxial and AES. However, after upgrading my video streaming setup I'd like to run an optical cable from my plasma TV to send 2.0 PCM audio to my Yggdrasil. My only other audio route that doesn't introduce AV sync issues is to do HDMI ARC from the TV to my Oppo, which then outputs through my Audiopraise output board via coax. I've read optical is preferable to ARC from a jitter / sound quality perspective.

    I researched about optical cables for audio years ago and saw Lifatec cables recommended often. I see that has continued on SBAF, in this thread (by @k4rstar) and other threads:
    I actually used a 3 foot Lifatec years ago to hook my PS3 into my old integrated with DAC, but never compared it to anything else. Is Lifatec still the sweet spot in price vs. performance for a 5-6 foot cable? Has anybody compared a Lifatec or other glass optical cable to one utilizing Mitsubishi ESKA 1mm plastic optical fiber (supposedly what the audio optical toslink standard was designed for)? (like this)
     
  16. Woland

    Woland Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    a friendly land

    I spent a while researching this 6 months ago.. from memory the main issue with optical cables is that light bouncing between the edges of the cable arrives after light that has travelled straight. This introduces jitter, an ambiguity about when the digital signal has switched from 0 to 1 or back.

    However, light travels really fast, even through a medium like glass/plastic. So the arrival time difference between the two kinds of signals is really small. The problem only becomes a real one when you are dealing with data transfer rates much higher than 44kHz, or in cables much longer than you'd use for home audio.

    The bigger issue with optical is the light sources and sensors, which tend to be manufactured as a cheap add-on to consumer electronics, so they do not make precise step changes in amplitude. No cable will fix that.

    Anyway, that's from recall of a fair bit of research, undertaken months ago. Others may have a better understanding.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  17. bixby

    bixby Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,987
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    @Woland

    yup and right! Something about the less than a dollar part that we ask to convert voltages to light, maintain timing, and then get it back to voltages on the other end; with another dollar spent.

    Maybe that is why some of the "old" methods some using ATT connectors and perhaps way better transmitters and receivers that differentiate what could be from what is, regards optical.
     
  18. bixby

    bixby Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,987
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northern Colorado

    All of my listening with Lifatec vs cheap and better plastic cables all fell firmly on the side of Lifatec. For me there was no reason to try to out do it. In the end Toslink did not cut the mustard either with most really good bridges or with native sources. One that did like it best was a Bryston Bridge.
     
  19. zonto

    zonto Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Thanks @Woland and @bixby

    Yeah. Seems like the simplest solution is for me to just get a longer Lifatec cable and hook the TV straight into the Yggdrasil. Its Adapticlock system supposedly does a good job of removing jitter.

    This is largely driven by having an older TV with slow internal streaming apps. I got a new Apple TV 4K and it only has HDMI output. Hooking into my Oppo works fine and offers superior video processing (including through the Darbee chip), there’s just an AV sync issue introduced that I could not fix using the Oppo’s built-in audio delay, as the delay changes between apps and sometimes even within given content. During HDMI handshakes when using content frame rate matching (23.976/24p playback) the Yggdrasil would also click repeatedly and sometimes the buy-better-gear light comes on. For some reason when I hook the ATV up directly to the TV the sync issue vanishes, the frequency of relay clicking is vastly reduced, and no buy-better-gear light.

    Other suggestions I’ve seen online for optimizing TV and ATV 2.0 PCM playback are to:
    1. Run optical from the TV into a reclocker that has coaxial or BNC output. This could be an iFi Purifier, Wyred4Sound Remedy, or Empirical Audio Synchromesh. Then BNC to the Yggdrasil; and
    2. Use a separate device with Airplay and set the ATV audio to output to that. I also need a new audio streamer that is Roon Ready so have looked into this. Lumin U1 Mini is well-reviewed (but expensive). One user said he had AV sync issues using it with his ATV. A Bluesound Node 3 could also do it. Maybe a Pi2AES.
    Still think the optical cable is the simplest solution. Then I can keep my audio and video streaming chains separate and each will have a more direct connection to the DAC without relying on other cables, reclockers and wireless protocols in the middle. Thoughts?
     
  20. Woland

    Woland Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    a friendly land
    You might get value from an HDMI extractor box that sits into the HDMI chain and extracts digital audio. Some have coaxial digital.

    I have a related problem. All our TV viewing is from a Chromecast with Google TV. Ideally, it would send audio through the Gungnir.

    Extracting HDMI audio and sending it to a Gungnir over optical, there is occasional annoying clicking. The BBG light does not flicker on.

    Using a USB hub, I can route audio from Chromecast to a USB DAC. However, the Chromecast does not recognize the Gungnir as a USB DAC. It works fine with a Topping DAC though.

    So what do now is run two DACs (Gungnir for Audio, Topping for TV) and combine their output through a mixer for the speakers. It's a bit messy. I wish I could get the Chromecast USB to work with the Gungnir.
     

Share This Page