Topping DACs?

I agree with you that you will never change some people's minds - the ones that have bought into the ideology fully or are actively propagating it for ideological or financial reasons.

The only place where a difference can be made is in debunking the attractively-packaged propositions that they serve to regular folks who are just looking for some guidance. Like the oversimplification of a very complex issue regarding amplifier performance to two basic measurements. This is now actively being used by objectivists and the companies that are on the bandwagon to basically say to emerging enthusiasts: "Don't trust what your lying ears and brains are telling you, we have found a way of measuring performance that is mathematical and impossible to contest. If you buy the products that we choose to measure and that we say measure well, you will be happy forever. Until we get a product that measures just a tiny bit better, at which point you will have to upgrade."

How do you get people just to trust their own ears and not listen to anyone's mantra that is likely driven by someone's corporate agenda? That is one of the main reasons why I participate at those "other" forums - is to remind people that you should not ignore what you are hearing with your own damn ears.

 

Pain. You let them fail and they either come to question their pigsty, or they are perfectly happy with it. Either way somebody gets to sells them something...

 

Keep in mind most Chinese innovation is from stolen IP. Almost all of the cheap chifi is just knockoff bullshit infesting the market. It pretty much all sucks. The big state owned enterprises in PRC don't innovate. They're run by apparatchniks and just steal. Then the west lets them buy out the western companies they drove out of business instead of banning their imports.

Until white collar crime has existential threats for the corporation and the people behind in, this will continue. I am perfectly in favor of the death penalty for major financial crimes. Corporations are people. Execute their management and major investors who condoned it. Some people deserve to die. If corporations are people, then some corporations deserve to die along with some of the people that work there. If some gangbanger kills another gangbanger or two, how much economic damage did he cause? He might get the death penatly. Steal a couple hundred million? Small slap on the wrist.

The CCP engages in gross economic espionage like the USSR in a spy movie. Unless there are gross penalties for this and those in the West who assist them, it will continue.

 

Small scale Chinese supply chain is contaminated for many electrical parts. That's one of the reasons they have problems building bang for buck audio gear. There are even knockoff parts in mass produced things.

There is basically no IP enforcement there and the government steals themselves. It's communism. Where do you think all of the money poured into partially state owned enterpises comes from? It's basically the USA and robbing the future generations of taxpayers but 10000x worse because it's communism with a billion people.

 

I don't get why anyone would post over there or ever read the ASR forum. They get no clicks from me. Vote with your wallet. With the resources available elsewhere.. why play the game at all. Let them have at it.

 

If people think audio gear is bad, check out simple household stuff like toasters and coffee pots. I've gone through tons of toasters and coffee pots in the past few years. China crap sold at Target and Wal-mart = bad for everyone and more money in the long run. There are American toasters from the 30s that still work 90 years later.

 

https://geshelli.com/

these guys are getting a lot of clicks and recommended left and right... ASR measurements link right on the product page ! To me this does them more harm then good. (not a dac but you get it)...

 

Absolutely right.

Even buying high priced counter appliances like Braun and Kitchen Aid have been a disaster for the last 20+ years. KA blenders that fail in a few years, Braun souped up Halogen light tech toaster that craps out. Classic design copy $80 Cuisinart toasters that fail faster than the $10 Sunbeam from 40 years ago.

I only buy cheap ass crap now like Hamilton Beach, cuz I know damn well all of it will fail within a few years.

 

That's the most "look at me, I'm virgin!" audio gear I've ever seen. The ASR link doesn't help either.

 

Amir should probably measure toasters and coffee pots.

 

As long as they have a power switch on the front lol.

 

O for pity's sake, ragging on amir is like picking on the paste eating kid in elementary school.
It's easy to look tall standing next to a midget, quit wasting bandwidth.

 

I have used and liked Geshelli Labs stuff, they make very good products if you are after that kind of sound. They are also really nice people and have great customer service, so I wouldnt hate on them too much. They have been donating PPE to local medical professionals in need and such which is why I like supporting smaller, local businesses.

Their Enog Pro 2 dac is pretty good, if you are after an affordable balanced DAC and like the AKM sound. I like the garage DIY look, so its a matter of taste It sounded pretty great with the THX 789. Only complaint for its price was the lack of USB. it doesn't measure in the top 1% though so obviously its "shit" .

I actually like the sound of the TI OP amp based headphone amps with some headphones as I enjoy the intense in your face kind of presentation with metal and such so I dont personally hate on them too much. If people like the way they sound more power to em. I am only irritated by people saying the OP Amp stuff is "objectively superior" to everything else because it measures better which I think is silly.

To go back on hating on Topping for a minute, the Topping recommendation that triggers me the most in the DX3 which has no business being in anyone claiming to be a objectivists recommendation list as its got a output impedance of freaking 10. In fact several of the Topping DAC/AMPs and amps have excessively high output impedance. The A30 amp had a output impedance of THIRTY 30, freaking 30!

One of the big parts of Nwavguy;s crusade back in the day was how important it was for amps to have low output impedance and that seems to have just been forgotten. I once got told on reddit that it was perfectly fine to have a 300 or more output impedance on their motherboard as it was no big deal and not all that noticeable with most headphones. I pointed out that the Sennheiser HD598 (a common starter headphone for people) gets a 5db hump around 100hz when connected to a high output impedance amp and was told that was not all that noticeable. HEAD STRAIGHT TO DESK.

 

Until saw some posts in this thread, I didn't realize later revision of dx3 has such a high Zout. Mine is sorta unicorn survivor of the initial batches, and now I start to suspect some reported graininess might be attributable to later revisions (or ver 2) as I have never thought mine sounded grainy let alone various sonic complaints (not meaty, flatter staging, lame transient, lack of energy/engagement factors, etc etc).

 

Yeah they switched from some type of unique amp to a stereotypical TPA6120A2 one which sucks. To their credit they did get the Zout down to 10 from the typical 30 so there is that. I would imagine the earlier ones were better, but they apparently had some kind of issue where they could damage headphones or some such as well as questionable QC which is why they changed it as I understand it.

I personally despise TPA6120A2 based amps and the other ones from that same series like the TPA6130A2, they are the laziest designs possible and I have never found one that sounded good. I have tried way too many over the years as they used to be EVERYWHERE. A lot of the creative sound cards used them, the Topping A30 used it and a even supposedly high end stuff too. Always sounds very boring and sterile. The really good TI Op amp based stuff is better.

 

There are known cases where they are trying to get into western factories with high tech and innovation. We just looking around. Probably just corporate people but who knows. Anyone with enough knowledge blocks these requests. Just need to know the dark part of yin yang as well or stay stupid. It just comes down to when you don't have any real business here you don't get in.

 

Their enog 2 dac is a lot better than any chinese sabre. Also better than the chinese akm daps with too much rinsed sound.
Some midrange dip and soft bass, but overall an agreeable sound.

 

Huh, I must say I haven't heard many of the cheaper chinese DACs, but I didn't think they would be that ... ekhm polarizing.
The only topping product I've heard was D70 and it sounded mellow, warm and slightly bloated ... characteristics which I personally don't particularly enjoy. But I thought those SMSL/Topping DACs are a decent budget option - apparently not.

I've recently received partial refund for damaged Yggdrasil from DPD and naively thought that D90 might be a decent replacement for the time being. Looks like I have to look somewhere else. I must say finding the right DAC is way more difficult than headphones or amp.