Schiit Modius DAC announced

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by JohnCarter17, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    That should be the serial over rj they use to program the board.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I drove up to the Santa Clarita to grab one of them.

    upload_2020-6-2_17-18-34.png

    Schiit certainly didn't need to do this stuff. None of this stuff makes a difference and I'm sure Dave and the other engineers were right in that it sounded fine before. But this destroys the Topping D70 which uses x2 AKM4497 chipses. Schiit didn't start the measurement wars, but it sure seems like they are going to end it in the sub $200 range. Amir measurement below with Amir commentary on the Topping D70, the $500 competitor to the $250 Modius:

    upload_2020-6-2_17-28-58.png

    Conclusions
    The Topping D70 came dangerously close to unseating every other DAC. Its full output distortion is a few dB worse than the best so it didn't get there. But in all other respects, the D70 produces exceptional measured performance. Its crown jewel is exceptionally quiet noise floor that creates one of the best dynamic ranges I have measured. Use of AKM chip takes advantage of that to produces exceptionally clean performance where your volume control normally would be.
    Funny how Amir didn't mention the "skirt" around the 1kHz and AC mains noise of the Topping, which he usually never fails to mention if it's another brand.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  3. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I can predict Amir's response:

    Conclusions
    Purrin from a certain website has no idea how to read measurements and it's clearly wrong. D90 is still a much better buy because it has 0.1 SINAD increase over the Modius. I made doubly sure by measuring the Modius without the power supply, because those don't make a difference. (Do I need to send you my direct deposit information Topping?)
     
  4. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    upload_2020-6-2_20-33-56.png

    Actually, it's not even $250. ...

    F***. I don't have any more urgent need for extra dacs for now. But strongly tempted to let it fight against bifrost 2. Must resisit...

    @purr1n any early thoughts on staging, layering, and imaging on speakers? AKM did them very poorly in cheap dacs but was one of the nicest in the eye popping expensive one (cranesong). Wondering where Modius is placed. Modi 3 was not so great to me (within the Schiit spectrum) if I ignore its price.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The D90 and X-Sabre lay waste to many other DACs when it comes to 1kHz 0db SINAD. I think Schiit would rather build you a Bifrost 2 in good conscience, because it sounds better, rather than than make you pay the same for a D90 using the AKM4499.

    BTW, the Modius is super resolving. I thought overall SQ would be 5%-10% better than Modi 3 subjectively, on par with the RME. It's more like 25%-30% better than Modi 3 and easily bests the RME ADI2 from memory, although the RME obviously has way more functionality, so not really appropriate to make an apples-apple comparison. But really, if we think about it, it makes sense. Schiit's not going to charge x2 more for something that sounds 5-10% better subjectively. The measurements are just a distraction. They make gear based on listening - heck I know because sometimes they ask my opinion - just to make sure they aren't nuts. More data points is always better.

    The AKM4493 now actually differentiates itself from the AKM4490. No idea how Topping made the AKM4497 sound like a AKM4490, and a badly implemented one at that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    LOL, Modius is priced appropriately at $200. For some reason I thought it was $250. TBH, don't bother unless you really want something different. There's a reason why the Bifrost 2 is $700. I wouldn't pay more than $200-$300 for any AKM Velvet Sound DAC unless something major or custom has been done to it, and there's no way Schiit can hit Topping's price point with the AKM4499 with USA manufacturing because these chips cost $85 a pop. Given my experience with Topping gear, my guess is that D90 probably sounds slightly worse than the Modius - triangulating others impressions of the D90 (Torq and other reasonably good Internet sources), it either sounds like the RME ADI2, maybe with thinner tonality and more digital highs.

    If you want to try another DAC for kicks, Motu UltraLite, either the mk4 or AVB. A lot more than a DAC. It's a mixer, ADC, will take good microphones so you don't have to use Blue USB garbage, can plug in a guitar, and even be massaged into working as an active xover. The thing has got a million inputs and outputs, all fully routable in almost any combination in a decent web UI. Review of Motu Ultralite mk4 is still pending.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  7. JellyRhino

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    Does it hit like a wet noodle?
    Edit: Is it at least al dente?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Cranesong secret sauce was custom digital filter with custom upsampling with some weirdo 211kHz sampling rate which is supposed to be optimal with the AKM and added magic pixie dust on the clocks. Basically David Hill pulled off a megacomboburrito for the AKM.

    Modius soundstage is like any other AKM Velvet DAC (which is already quite good). Expansive, wider than deep, reasonably deeply placed stage, and if any nitpick, slightly diffuse, but some people like this.

    Surprisingly no, not so much. A little more body than other AKM Velvet Sound implementations. Slightly more than RME AD2, which as just a tick fully than Modi 3, which was fuller than D70.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    To add, a bit of that wet noodle thing still sort of exists with the one-note'ish not well defined bass. The super-soft spongy thing has been corrected. There's heft, but I wouldn't say the attacks in the lows as as strong as say like the XSabre Pro.
     
  10. JellyRhino

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    Digital highs?
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Less evident when full spectrum music is playing because of its fuller sound - more lows, more body, masks the highs. However if sparse stuff or no low instruments like Joni Mitchell's Blue where the mids and highs are isolated, the sigma-delta stuff does rear its ugly head. Fortunately, it's Modi 3 level digititus, not Topping level. FWIW, I felt AKMs prior generation chips sounded less digital. I think it's because with the new Velvet Sound chips, they kind of cranked up the lows and last-octave.

    P.S. I can tolerate BA IEMs with the Modius. (not so much with the Modi 3). It's the combination of tone and lack-of-digititus that allows for this. So we do have progress here. I'm super picky about source with BA IEMs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  12. PacoTaco

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    D90 sounds exactly like the RME with less velvet. Which is entirely due to the chip, not anything Topping did. So...maybe 5% better? I had them back to back, and the difference wasn't so drastic or anything.
     
  13. JellyRhino

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    That sounds promising. Would you consider it an upgrade to Modi Multibit for headphone use, or a sidegrade? @purr1n Thanks for the input!
     
  14. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

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    Very exciting, this is a much needed product IMO as it fills the gap between the Modi and the Bifrost, especially for people who want D/S. Tempted to get one, certainly stacks nicely with the Asgard. I think the Cmedia USB was the weakest part of the Modi and this resolves that quite nicely, isolated or not I am sure Unison is a better tech than Cmedia.

    Very interesting that the balanced output is totally different from the single ended, means you could pair it with both a single ended amp and a balanced amp to get two different experiences. I think a stack of the Modius, Asgard 3 and the new Geshelli Labs Erish would be a interesting idea from a value standpoint. You could use the Asgard to get a bit warmer sound and the Erish balanced to get a ultra low distortion sound. More I think about it the more tempted I am to do just that. Now to get money transferred to my US bank account before it sells out!
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The Modius is slightly warmer and more full bodied, quite a bit more resolving, has similar one-note indistinct bass, and hits slightly harder compared to RME. In general and very simplified terms: Modius > RME 3 >= Modi 3 > D70.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Their presentations are so different. It’s a matter of preference. Modius will be way more resolving. MM is a bit behind in technology without Unison, but a darker sound, easier highs, with more precise imaging with depth may be preferable. Opposite strengths and weaknesses in many ways.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    All impressions have been via SE out. Curious about balanced outs now.
     
  18. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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    Me too...I was kind of shocked to see how much better SE appears to measure even though we know that may mean very little. It appears that the noise floor is much higher on the balanced outs. Still inaudible though.
     
  19. bunkbail

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    They're AKM4497s.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Oh yeah. I keep forgetting. Maybe the 4497 is the black sheep of the lineup.
     

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