ZMF Compendium

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by ChaChaRealSmooth, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Noted a few things:

    • I didn't think transient response / speed that was that wide apart. Felt they were closer together.
    • Auteur plankton and clarity IMO should be bumped up a bit.
     
  3. Inoculator

    Inoculator Friend

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    Really valuable chart for folks just getting into ZMF cans, I think is important to remember not everyone needs or wants a Verite/VC just because it the most expensive model (fully acknowledging I am hypocrite because I just sold my Auteur to get a Verite). As long as you generally jive with the ZMF house sounds, there is a ZMF for you.

    Overall I think it is pretty spot on. One item on the chart I am baffled by though is the take on Eikon slam. Maybe I am crazy, but having owned two different Auteurs, Aeolus, two different Eikons...I find the Eikon slams the hardest of all of them. I have never understood how enamored people are with the Aeolus bass response, I found it very underwhelming. (Still think the Aeolus was a very satisfying all-day listening type headphone, very much super HD 6X0 IMO). I found the Auteur/Eikon to be the best headphones I have heard for pop music just for the satisfying, clean slam. I might just be interpreting slam in the wrong way, as I do recognize that in general mid-bass emphasis translates to an increase in macrodynamic slam. Could just be amps I was using or my personal preferences. Maybe wood differences? I do like the response of my camphor burl Eikon significantly more than the padauk Eikon I heard. I will see this coming week how I feel the Verite compares.

    Just my random thoughts based on my experience with half of the ZMF lineup. Really appreciate your work pulling this guide together for everyone, was helpful in my decision to pull the trigger on a Verite.
     
  4. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    Agreed, and edited the graph. If anyone else would like to suggest changes/feedback, please feel free.

    While I only have brief experience with Eikon at a meet, I never felt it to be a slamming can and found all other ZMF dynamics to "get up and go" more. It just seemed too damped down and too reluctant to slam even with the help of DSHA-3F.

    About Auteur: I will say that Auteur does indeed have very satisfying extension in the bass and pretty good pitch differentiation with great nuance (microdynamics), but if you want that bass slam it's probably better found in other headphones (absolutely not saying that you can't enjoy the Auteur/Eikon in those pop recordings; I know I enjoy my Auteur for that as well). I felt the Aeolus slammed plenty, but it didn't seem to have the extension and "fullness" down low that the Auteur has.

    Then again, "slam" is a made-up word, audio is confusing, and I'm a potato.
     
  5. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    What wood is your Verite going to be? I have a VC monkey pod and a camphor burl Eikon as well. I also don't exactly know what slam is, but my Eikon has more subbass and lower bass quantity and heft over the Verite - but not much. At least it "feels" a bit more substantial (is that "slam"?). However, the VC is close, and while less damped and "controlled" it is "faster"...talk about touchy feely description. Would I feel different with a regular wood Eikon? Maybe...
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Aelous is explosive. Verite driver does best the others in plankton, microdynamics, and speed (more the delineation, articulation, and decay - less the attack). However these things may be difficult to notice because its FR tends to not highlight these traits; and obviously a sufficiently resolving amp and source are required. In elite / snob speak, I'm not taking about my experience using mid-fi gear here. Verite won't scale up with the Magni Heresy / JDS Atom + Topping DAC.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Heft is like the Hulk sitting on your chest. Slam is like Thor throwing his hammer into your face.
     
  8. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Yeah I’ve had thoughts along those raised here lately. I think it’s very easy to consider mid bass emphasis to be slam but the he6 doesn’t have mid bass emphasis and is super slammy. Differences in drivers and what they need to get going could also deem something more or less slammy. Anyway, based on my experience with the Auteur and Atticus (not in direct comparison cause I don’t have a pair of Atticus, and I haven’t heard the Aeolus long enough but now want to compare them), I definitely do not think that the Atticus has more plankton and clarity than the Auteur, probably the other way around. I also have a hard time differentiating microdynamics from plankton, but plankton seems like a pretty fuzzy subjective word even after all these years on this site (sorry marv). Speed and slam I don’t remember well enough but the Atticus (and the Aeolus for that matter) is pretty midbassy so maybe that creates a sense of slam? I dunno, marv calls the Aeolus explosive and chacha refers to the ability to get up and go, which is def not midbassyness. But again could be due to synergy of that particular chain and what a headphone needs to perform best.

    the other things I’ve noticed so far that I can elaborate more on another time and in another thread is that the Blackwood auteur felt darker and more damped than the Maple Auteurs and even the Bocote Auteurs. The Bocote has been my favorite since it isn’t as dark as the Blackwood but still benefits from the added speed and less reverb/decay of harder wood. Then I went from Auteur perf pads to Universe Hybrid perf pads and dayum, this thing became very balanced, fast, and hard hitting. suede pads had a fuzzier image. Same increments when I put in the Bryston bha1 amp in the chain.

    I think all this goes to demonstrate to me is that these things can be pushed around by pads and amps and source gear... at the end of the day, if there are minute differences in these attributes, they seem debatable and pushed around. the thing that differentiates these headphones the most to me, by far, is their frequency response (I also was calling it ZMFness in my head until I realized that the same guy makes all of these so felt like a misnomer), and whether they’re closed back or not (which also dictates which one to go for). So basically, tonal preferences are prob most diagnostic and then the rest seem to be very susceptible to pads (e.g., going from auteur to universe) and amps/sources (e.g., going from a bloomy and laid back amp to a more neutral and slam slut amp).

    this summary is a worthwhile and commendable task but it seems difficult for the reasons above and bc which single individual has time to control for or account for differences that the pads generate and fixed parts of the system to consider (perhaps they work better for some but less for other headphones). Maybe Zach is best suited to this task but he’s a busy guy so I’m not suggesting anything LOL
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  9. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    To me "slam" is a combination of clean bass, good bass transient response, and good weight behind them.

    Which is pretty f'ing nebulous shit - except for non-egregious bass distortion, that's quantifiable ofc - but it boils down to don't soften it, don't muddy it, and don't be floaty and weightless like most stats.

    FR doesn't come into it, but if you don't have the above I guess an elevated bass feels awful so maybe there's confirmation bias for bassy transducers here?

    The Atticus/Nipples pet driver is a bit more square and less natural than the biodyna, which probably accentuates the perceived bass attack, and creates the illusion of slight superior detail retrieval.

    Ninja edit: I wonder if (swept volume / cavity) ratio comes into it, as I bet bass that is strong enough to get to your inner ear without going through the ear canal and collecting 200$ tickles the reptile bits in a different way.

    Betcha a waveform that's wide enough to go around the ear and slap your skull feels different even with headphones, and that your skin contributes here just like smell works for taste.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  10. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    31EA0A30-8508-4635-BFB4-EEBF816034DE.png
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I didn't feel Atticus/Nips was as resolving as Verite. In terms of slam, I didn't equate this with bass FR either. The slam or getting hit in the face with Thor's hammer thing was the same for both Atticus and Nips despite nips having that narrow mid-bass bump. Both of these hitting harder than Verite, Autuer, and especially Eikon.

    --

    In any case, the spider plot is @ChaChaRealSmooth's opinion. And something about opinion and assholes.

    Having done several of these myself, I know how hard that can be. They are really generalisations, starting points for discussion, rather than to be taken as truth.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  12. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Hear hear

    edit did you call yourself an asshole cause of all of your opinions and shit
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Unnecessary. Wife calls me asshole daily.
     
  14. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    There really is no substitute for a loving wife!
     
  15. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Me again, has anyone own the ZMF Salire headphone stand? How you like it with the ZMF cans? It looks like it is taking advantage of the vertical space, so you can attempt to put two headphones on it and it doesn't take up too much Hori space. Thanks.
     
  16. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    Salire is a headphone stand (kind of hard to screw up), so I guess it works well given the fact my ZMFs sit on it and....it hasn't broken yet?

    No worries about compression on pads or anything.
     
  17. Phantaminum

    Phantaminum Friend

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    Salire stands works really well. It’s nice being able to hang two headphones and wrap cables around the base.
     
  18. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Thanks. I might get two stands. One for HD stuff and one for ZMF and another headphone if I want.
     
  19. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

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    There was just a half off b-stock sale on salire.. i think we missed it :(
     
  20. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Yeah we did. In the long run we forget how much we paid for things full value. It is what it is.
     

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