Hands's Non-Oversampling DAC Comparison Master List

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Hands, Mar 3, 2017.

  1. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Bifrost 2 ordered. It will be interesting to compare my Model with the Bi Frost 2. I will report my impressions.....
     
  2. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Due to Fedex failing to timely deliver, I have not yet received the Bi Frost and I am heading out of town for a few days. I look forward to listening to the Bi Frost and posting my impressions this upcoming weekend.

    Is anyone familiar with the Sonnet DAC?
    https://www.sonnet-audio.com/Morpheus.html
    I believe Cees was involved in developing. Seems like he would be conflicted if he is joining Metrum again.

    Hands, can you share info on your DYI DAC? I came across this one...
    https://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-...l/dac-isolated_xmos_384k_dac_and_0_96oled_pcb

    Anyway, I am considering the Model S4, the DDDAC seems interesting and the BiFrost. The DYI project is so inexpensive though it would be worth considering and then paying someone to build it for me (lame, yea I know, but I am not capable of building it).

    The search continues....
     
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    We have a thread for the Morpheus floating around. I think folks in general feel kind of mixed about it.

    DIY DAC is that AD1862 board, some of their power supply regulator boards, R-core transformers off eBay, and a basic AK4118 SPDIF in, I2S out board, also from eBay. Opamps to taste. That's really all there is to it.

    I'd just say hold tight. Before considering other options, just wait until you can test out Bifrost. Spend good time with it and go from there if needed.
     
  4. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Hands, that is the plan. I plan on doing some serious listening and comparisons between the Model vs. Bi Frost 2. Should be very eye opening. I have been listening to the Model for so long it has "trained" my brain on how a DAC ought to sound. It will be interesting to see if the sampling of the Bi Frost jumps out as being a problem for me or a nonissue. We'll see.
     
  5. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    I'm very curious to your findings jwr. My main DAC is also an Audial model, your conclusions will aid for when the day comes I need to move away from it, too.. :)
     
  6. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Well, I am comparing the Bi Frost 2 and Audial Model S as I type this post.

    I don't think it is much of a contest. The Model S just breaths life and emotion into the music in a way the Bi Frost is just incapable of doing. To me, the Model offers more depth, better timbre, and smoothness. Voices, pianos, strings, etc. all sound so much more real, natural. In comparison, the Bi Frost sounds thinner, more strident, and instruments sound a tad off from the way they should. I can (and do) listen to the Audial for hours at a time. My sense is if I kept the Bi Frost, I would soon grow tired of it. I will be sending it back.

    I think the Bi Frost is a good DAC for the money, but I don't think it is a giant killer by any means. It is vivid and clear. But as an OS DAC, at least to my ears, it still has that slight synthetic sound and a relatively flat soundstage.

    For the comparison, I streamed Tidal via my Macbook --> Wyerd Recover --> DAC (either the Bi Frost or Audial) --> Audial Model A integrated amp --> Open Baffles. By simply swapping cables, I was able to do an apples-to-apples comparison. I also tried the optical in on the Bi Frost, which bettered the USB input, but still fell short of the Audial.

    Baten, the Bi Frost would be a step down in sound quality from your existing Audial Model IMHO. Also, the Bi Frost is like a toy DAC in comparison to the build quality of the Audial, which is solidly built, weighs significantly more, and has beefed up power supplies and other components, etc.

    Unfortunately, this experiment did not work out as I hoped. I need a DAC with an optical input and my Audial is USB only.

    So I am thinking of the Audial Model S4 or the DDDAC. The latter is more expensive, but it offers many attributes beyond a TDA1541 based DAC. It is NOS, uses parallel DAC chips, and virtually no output stage - just a resistor and output transformers (like my Audial).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
  7. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    thanks for your impressions. I would advise you away from passive I/U conversion and no output stage, based on my own experiences, it is far from the ideal technical solution. especially as you are using an integrated IC-based amplifier.

    a current out DAC chip should see immediately an active stage to preserve life and emotion, not a resistor and inductor. based on his blog posts it seems the Audial guy thinks it is just a matter of impedance, but I think it goes beyond that. again IMO/YMMV.
     
  8. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Stay away from TDA* which aren't competitive. You should be looking at Metrum Jade/Onyx, etc.
     
  9. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    After numerous suggestions regarding the various Metrum DACs, I started looking into the Jade. They are not readily available, at least I have not found a dealer with any left in stock. I also came across on various threads that Sonnet, which may or may not be as good as the Pavane L3. However, by I'd say all accounts, it is considered a step up from the Jade. The Sonnet is doable cost-wise. Is there really a better alternative for around $3K?

    BTW, I do appreciate all the sound advice and the willingness of others to share their thoughts and experiences. This forum is a great resource for someone like me trying to get up to speed with the latest.
     
  10. lagadu

    lagadu Facebook Friend

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    The Holo Spring 2 sits at a little below that price point. While I can attest to the naturalness of its timbre, as far as I understand it doesn't have that much of the traditional NOS sound to it. Might be worth reading a little into it?
     
  11. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Too many choices and not many opportunities to audition before buying. In any event, I have read many posts on this and other forums. Most (not all) conclude the Sonnet is better than the Pavane. I will look into the Holo Spring option more closely. But from what I can gather, it is different but not better than the Audial. Man this is hard.....
     
  12. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    I own one. It's not the most exciting DAC I've owned, but I like how it does small ensemble jazz with my ecp DSHA-3F amp. There's a density of tone, especially the double bass, a lovely liquidity in the midrange, and a separation between front and back instruments that sounds just right for jazz trios. For excitement, and the best percussion dynamics and detail, I'd still prefer my OS Schiit Yggdrasil A2, and for intense romanticism, the NOS Holo Spring I owned a while ago. I owned a Metrum Onyx at some point, after I starting feeling the Holo Spring's bold palette was too much of a good thing. I sold the Onyx when my Yggdrasil moved to headphone duty, and stayed that way until I got curious about the Morpheus. Subjectively, I feel the Morpheus is more my thing in NOS than the Spring or the Onyx, but maybe that's because the current combination Morpheus>ecp DSHA-3F>ZMF Verité closed monkeypod is better than the sum of the parts. OTOH, when I listen to my other system Yggdrasil>EC Af>ZMF Verité open silkwood I am at the edge of the seat waiting for more.
     
  13. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Earnmyturns - thanks for the post. Appreciate your impression on the various DACs you have used. Based on your comments, it sort of reinforces that the Sonnet is my preferred option. It seems to thread the needle between the Holo and Yggdrasil and is a step up over the Onyx.

    I am finally coming around to selling the Model and moving on...
     
  14. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    If we had the time and patience, I'd be asking my wife, who has the more discerning ear, to compare Morpheus and Yggdrasil with the same amp and headphones. For me, Morpheus>DSHA-3F>VC puts me in a more peaceful, gently warm place — we need a lot of that these days — while Yggdrasil>Af>VO brings out the music's power and grit to remind me of the most grabbing of live performances that I so much miss with all venues closed by COVID-19. Different needs, different moods.
     
  15. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Yes earnmyturns we can all use some peace and tranquility these days. Your comments are helpful - my preference when listening to my system is more toward the natural or relaxing side as opposed to on the edge. So of the two, the Morpheus is a better fit for me I think. Just noticed you're located in Palo Alto. Used to live in Menlo Park. Small world...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  16. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    Managed to find a used Sonnet Morpheus and matching Hermes streamer at a decent price. Wish to thank again all those offered suggestions.

    I look forward to comparing the Morpheus to my Audial Model. It will be interesting to see how well the Audial/TDA1541 matches up with the latest.

    And then the Model will be sold off. Will be sorry to see it go.
     
  17. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    Nice, I hope you like that setup. Now you just need an ecp DSHA-3F amp and ZMF Verité headphones ;) Sort of kidding, no idea whether they'd work for you, cost is rather substantial, and delivery is slow, not even sure whether there's an open order window for DSHA-3F.
     
  18. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Wait, you already intend to sell the Model even before hearing the Morpheus? I wouldn't count out the Model that quickly.
     
  19. jwr159

    jwr159 New

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    I will post my impressions on the relative pros and cons on both DACs.

    My expectation is the Model will hold its own and I may miss those transformer outputs on the Model. We'll see how the comparison goes.

    But the connectivity issue with the USB input only with the Model remains. So even if I like the Model better, I still can't use it.
     
  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Ah, yes, my bad. I forgot that was another limitation you were looking to address in your system.
     

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