Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Pharmaboy

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    RE "I think if you love the ATCs, you likely have the right size for your setup/situation." I think you're right, though it pains me to admit it

    Amp is the Wyred4Sound ST-500 stereo amp (250 WPC). I got one in great condition, not that old, for an excellent price. It had to be a class D amp because there's no room on my desktop or adjacent space for a large class A/B amp. When I got the W4S amp, I emailed the company to ask if the ST-500 could be sited on one side/vertically; he said no problem, there's next to no heat to get rid of (he's right--it's a huge plus).

    All reviews & user comments I read about this amp were positive. Some compared it quite favorably to their favorite A/B SS amps; a typical comment was that they expected any class D amp to sound terrible, but this one sounded like real music. I lucked out: the reviews were on the money. It's a powerful, good-sounding amp that creates real synergy w/the ATC SCM12 Pro's; it has mass & density in the lower registers, and so do the ATCs. I only crank the system once or twice a month, but whenever I do, it's impressive as hell...insane dynamics & bass.

    I should add that I resolved the challenge of pairing speakers w/sub in the most expensive & satisfactory way: I picked up a used, perfect condition Marchand XM44 electronic crossover (24 dB/octave slopes & selectable crossover frequency). This box is quite transparent & resolves all the usual frustrations of mating high quality speakers or monitors to the sub.
     
  2. Pharmaboy

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    Can't believe you've heard a 10 signature. They only made 70 pairs...not a mainstream product. Their efficiency is super low--82 dB at 1 meter.

    Those have a 125mm mid/woofer + are ported. The latter would explain why they seemed to go deeper but strained doing it. Porting can really finesse/help larger woofers (depending on design of the enclosure), but in a small woofer like this it invites trouble.

    The next size up from the 20s are floorstanders and/or giant stand-mounted 3-ways that cost what a good used car would cost. If I had an audio room that supported such large speakers, I'd be obsessing/agonizing over the higher ATC models right now (but I don't, so am absolved).
     
  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    The 25s are 3 way but use the vifa tweeter and no sl drivers. The 45 use the atc tweeter. 50 is all atc sl drivers and 15000 dollars a pair retail.
     
  4. Armaegis

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    It was a few years back, but I think it was the same single 10se floating around Canada that a couple dealers just passed around lol. I believe it currently resides in BC with a guy who collects ATCs. I was chatting with him and he got it from a dealer there who said he got it from a trade in Winnipeg, and so on so forth.

    A good friend of mine has the 40's. He's been thinking of upgrading out of idle curiosity, and I'm tempted to buy his pair except I've got that stupid border to deal with.

    If you want to agonize over unobtainables, there are a couple anniversary editions for sale right now. There's even an EL150 over in Europe for not bad coin even after factoring in shipping costs.
     
  5. Armaegis

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  6. Pharmaboy

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    Didn't realize some of these models have different tweeters. That newer ATC tweeter (starting ~2014 in various models, incl. my 12 Pro's) is quite amazing, well worth having.
     
  7. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

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    After a lot of internal anguish, I decided that I'll actually just pull the trigger on both monitors I'm considering and will determine based upon in room listening impressions which I'll keep.

    A pair of these bad boys in a beautiful cabernet finish ships tomorrow morning: https://www.legacyaudio.com/products/view/studio-hd/

    I'm also in the process of getting some ATC SCM19's to compare to.
     
  8. Pharmaboy

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    I have no doubt which one you'll like, FWIW.

    Funny to see someone else in my boat: owning multiple pairs of speakers/monitors. It's hardly ideal, but it's better than owning no pairs...
     
  9. SineDave

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    The Legacy monitors arrived yesterday. ATC might build great drivers, but man oh man does Legacy know how to build a cabinet and finish it. This finish is drop dead gorgeous!

    IMG_20200818_092711.jpg
    IMG_20200818_092732.jpg
     
  10. Pharmaboy

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    Damn, that's beautiful! I just looked up this monitor on Legacy's website. That rosewood veneer is unbelievable! Have to agree about Legacy being better with cabinets...

    The shootout between this Legacy and the ATC SCM19 will be fascinating because:
    • The Legacy's mid/woofer is 8" vs 6" for ATC. Advantage to Legacy? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it. The cabinet volume of the ATC is significantly larger than the Legacy--and the ATC is a sealed/acoustic suspension system. Those do bass differently and IMO better than ported systems. My ATC SCM12 Pro (<2/3s the cabinet volume of the SCM19) has the same mid/woofer driver, and the bass is quite amazing.
    • The Legacy has an AMT tweeter vs the ATC having the best dome tweeter I've ever heard. These speakers will make treble very differently and probably won't sound all that similar.
    Really can't wait to read your comments about the sound of these 2 monitors!
     
  11. SineDave

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    It should be fun. The ATCs arrive Thursday.

    I think the ATC measures surround to surround while the Legacy is the entire unit - the real comparison is probably 6" vs 7".
     
  12. Pharmaboy

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    Verrrrry interesting. That just reinforces my prediction of which speaker will pull ahead.

    I wish I was anywhere near Houston & could invite myself to an audition of these two monitors. They're opposites in many ways, and are made by renowned mfrs...
     
  13. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Yeah the difference in the size of the driver means nothing here. It’s more about the motor/magnet structure, the crossover and cabinet design/loading. The AMT vs dome will likely make a big difference here however as you say.
     
  14. Pharmaboy

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    You're right--and you bring up a point I failed to make about ATC drivers. Those suckers are HEAVY. The tweeter is massive compared to other dome tweeters, and the woofer has a large/heavy magnet. I figured all this out based on diagrams of the driver designs--also after lifting each of my ATC SCM12 Pro monitors for the first time. Each one has to be 25-30 lbs, and I'll be >1/2 of that is magnets.
     
  15. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Don’t mean to bias the outcome in any way, but the measured FR looks way too bass peaky around 100Hz for nearfield setup:

    [​IMG]

    May need to EQ the bass down and/or stuff the ports.

    Odd thing is it doesn’t go that deep either, but the sensitivity is still pretty low...

    Edit: Legacy Studio HD monitor measurements by Stereophile: https://www.stereophile.com/content/legacy-audio-studio-hd-loudspeaker-measurements
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  16. Pharmaboy

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    Maybe I'm failing to see the obvious--but which speaker is represented here?
     
  17. SineDave

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    Bill responded to those with some explanation that adds context: https://www.stereophile.com/content/legacy-audio-studio-hd-loudspeaker-manufacturers-comments

     
  18. Pharmaboy

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    I re-read the STEREOPHILE review yesterday, though failed to reach the mfr's comments. I didn't mention this review in posts yesterday because it's somewhat negative towards the Legacy monitor in certain ways. Didn't want to prejudice the comparison of the Legacy vs ATC SCM19 that @SineDave will do.
     
  19. SineDave

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    I've learned through long experience to trust my ears, not others opinions. I will say that so far the Studio HD's sound excellent, but they are very placement sensitive. The built in crossover adjustment is pretty good at macro adjustment to bass presence and top end.
     
  20. SineDave

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    The ATCs have arrived. The comparison has commenced!

    ATCs2.jpg
     

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