Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Not disagreeing that this should be called out.

    However, the question is whether Amir's "hunting" is extended to other manufacturers. Is a product teardown and hunting for solder splatter, sloppy solder, and other board issues (you should see my shit solder jobs) part of a consistent methodology applied for all manufacturers throughout? Or is it selective?

    From what we've seen, ASR's approach is opportunistic and "random", often favoring "friends" of ASR and those which he probably has business relationships, but strongly targets those companies he himself and ASR members have expressed they do not like. The dude's got a hatchet.

    I can tell you for a fact that I see some non-ideal stuff on the back of the amp board on the JBL 306 I have in front of me. Why did Amir not mention such?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  2. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    ^ Don't disagree with it being selective. I initially mentioned how it stands in contrast to more severe actual issues (whereas bad solder is a potential issue) - most famously in my mind the "normal to get shocked" episode - but edited and deleted it as I felt it was maybe a little bit too off topic or going on a little too long. In retrospect I should have left it.
     
  3. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    There's a couple times I remembered when you were pushed. Like mshenay shilling the Project Ember and the couple times I mentioned the Bottlehead sex. In both cases hints were dropped and ignored.
     
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I think it's spelled out pretty clearly in one review:

    "This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC with Bluetooth. It was kindly sent to me by the company....

    NOTE: Given some recent comments that manufactures may be sending us "golden samples," Topping has offered that I also purchase a retail DAC to compare to this one at their expense. Actually they have offered that I re-buy everything they have ever sent me at retail at their expense! Personally, I have no concern about Topping's ethics in this manner so I don't want to wast time and expense doing so. If you feel otherwise, comment in the thread and I will decide what to do based on that."


    The casual way in which he brushes this off could be considered as mildly concerning. And, yes, I know he invites comments if anyone feels otherwise, but this sort of verbiage and phrasing could be interpreted as implying, "I hear you, but I'm not going to do anything about it, so don't bother." Could also be totally honest. I personally can't imagine their products have much measurement variance.

    Then again, that I've repeatedly seen him say things like, "We like to have fun around here," and has "Chief Fun Officer" as his title. Maybe I just get weird vibes from people that have to tell others they like to have fun. :)
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Same techniques are used by con-artists, Bernie Madoff, "religious" authorities who abuse their power, despots like Kim Jong Un, etc. It's a rhetoric device, because Amir already knows anyone who would dare suggest the "otherwise" would get talked down: "Oh, no, that's cool. Surely Dear Leader says so".
     
  6. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. Ruined

    Ruined HD700 ruined my ear holes

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    I bet Kim Jong Un has a sweet headphone rig

    Hell it might even measure well. And if it doesn't he'll get them to change the measurement system.
     
  8. JellyRhino

    JellyRhino Facebook Friend

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    From Brave New World : " And if ever, by some unlucky chance, anything unpleasant should somehow happen, why, there’s always soma to give you a holiday from the facts. And there’s always soma to calm your anger, to reconcile you to your enemies, to make you patient and long-suffering. In the past you could only accomplish these things by making a great effort and after years of hard moral training. Now, you swallow two or three half-gramme tablets, and there you are. Anybody can be virtuous now. You can carry at least half your morality about in a bottle. Christianity without tears—that’s what soma is. "
    Edit: Amir distributes two types of Soma: SINAD and fun
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    If he did, it would be something like the Sennheiser Orpheus with the HEV90 tube amp. Not Topping or SMSL.
     
  10. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    It's always a shame when intensely nationalist leaders don't buy domestically built products from their own countries.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  11. oh_okay

    oh_okay New

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    Well the USSR has great tubes. And they had some really, really nice turntables that were R&D'd by Soviet space and MiG scientists. And only the "leaders" had access to them. This 'table (Korvet) is sota ... that ball is full of glycerin to dampen vibration, etc. Search YouTube for sample audio rips:
     
  12. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    I'm a little late and a bit off topic, but why is this? How is Schiit's best measuring amp its worst sounding? I understand measurements can only tell us so much, and I certainly don't know enough about measurements to rely on them very much. Still, this seems like a strange contradiction I would like to understand why this would happen. Do people just like the sound that a bit of distortion or noise adds?
     
  13. Melvillian

    Melvillian Friend

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    It's probably the things you have to do to the signal to lower noise and distortion, like lots of negative feedback.
     
  14. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    Simple answer... the distortion levels measured are generally well below the audible range with most popular gear, Schiit included. In other words: while your standard-fare measurements on distortion are a good barometer for baseline not-shit-ness, they may not establish much beyond that and the general consensus here is that there are many things about the sound that basic THD/THD+N won't tell you. Hence why something with ultra-low distortion can range from simply unengaging to noticeably unpleasant, while something can measure a little 'worse' there and subjectively sound better.


    I.E. Measurements are valuable, but not everything. Sometimes the things you do to lower distortion have unforseen drawbacks to the behavior of the amp elsewhere. And to us it's not worth the extra zeroes following a decimal point, when you already couldn't hear it before. It's not always about the distortion itself. Low distortion isn't the only requirement for things to sound good. Sometimes it's not even a requirement! Though generally with Schiit, the distortion has already generally been low enough to not be relevant on its own, without this batch of measurement-friendly hardware.

    Plenty of exceptions to the rule, but that's the jist.
     
  15. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    Thanks for those comments. So how does the average schmuck like myself reconcile the difference between great measurements and great sound, particularly when trying gear isn't always an easy option? I think I have figured out that a few members here seem to have similar taste to mine, and I try to pay attention to what they like. But many people, especially those just getting into the game, simply have no clue. How are they supposed to figure out that the ASR approach isn't the only, or the best, approach?
     
  16. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Luck, or just trying stuff they are ultimately content with before they exit the game and find something else, ideally something more sensible or enjoyable, to spend their money on.

    I'm not saying that keying in (a) system/s is the worst thing to do with money, but ultimately this is all for self-satisfaction— I'd be far happier spending $200 on fancy inks than on fancy interconnects.

    That all aside, someone proclaiming to know The Ultimate Truth behind anything is an immediate red flag. There are those with a better idea than others but unless it's a comment on something as insipid or innocuous as the sun rising again soonish then yeah, caveat stultus.
     
  17. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    Just see if the measurements are serviceable and that's it. A SINAD of -80dB or better is all I care for in a solid state amp, and a S/N ratio is dependent on how sensitive your system is.

    If it's serviceable then start to find subjective opinions on how it actually sounds.
     
  18. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    To add to some of the above responses in regards to measurements; the current metrics we use to measure gear do not encapsulate all of a component's sound and don't tell us that much (they are important however). See this thread for just one example (we have tons of other threads on measurements on this forum as well; I advise you to read those).

    Also, I find measurements to be more useful in telling us what might be wrong with something versus how good something sounds. Example, the Elegia has some upper midrange funkiness that puts some people off despite there being a dip there in the FR. CSDs tell us that it has ringing in that region (I own an Elegia and this doesn't bother me, but EQ this part flat and it sounds terrible).

    In other words, this is a long-winded way for me to say that you should pay attention to measurements, but you also have to take subjective impressions into account.

    ^you answered your own question. Only real way without being able to try for yourself is to use people whose impressions you trust and extrapolate. Don't be afraid to reach out to some of those people with PMs as well; members generally are pleasant human beings and are willing to help you out.

    There is no substitute for experience. When we're talking about newbies, we're talking about people with little to no experience, with basically zero realistic ideas of what kind of sound they're looking for/what direction they want to go. At some point, they're actually going to have to buy something and hear it whether or not we would poo-poo it and slam it as "bad gear." Whether they go by our recommendations or some other forum's recommendations is completely up to them, and hopefully they eventually get to a point where they're happy with their setup.

    When I started this hobby, it was a total shot in the dark. It wasn't until I bought some more stuff/went to a SBAF meet to hear more gear when I realized exactly what it was I was missing out on. This eventually led to my rig today. Is my rig "perfect?" No, but it's good enough to the point where I put some headphones on and get swept away (aka I have no urge to change DACs, amps, etc). This could conceivably change should I audition something that makes me go "OMFG" (which was what happened with SR1a, which is why I bought one), but again, it wouldn't happen without me actually hearing it for myself.
     
  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Dude. Don't waste too many neurons in this.

    That's Marvs opinions after he actually heard the amp, regardless of measurements.

    In all likelihood you will stain your pants front and back after listening to your random music thru the Magnius.

    Regarding people liking the sound that a bit of distortion and noise adds, it may depend on how music was recorded. In some cases yes, in others no. That said, I really don't give a shit at this point. Buy what you like. And you will not know what you like until you try. Unfortunately or fortunately, there are no universal solutions that will 100% make everyone happy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  20. Yethal

    Yethal Facebook Friend

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