Best bang for your buck amp?

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by a44100Hz, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    I've been curious about upgrading amps for a while now as I suspect it will have a more noticeable effect than changing my DAC, but I haven't bit yet due to lack of understanding of how wide differences are between cost tiers for amps. I have a Magni 2, a Vali 2 and a PA1502A currently. Will I hear a significant difference going from a Magni to an Asgard? Or a Vali to a Lyr?

    If you could only have one amplifier and were on a budget, which do you think provides the best cost/performance ratio?

    If desired you can respond separately for SS and tube.
     
  2. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Maybe a used liquid carbon for SS and a Valhalla2 for tubes? I'll let others with more experience chime in but the upgrades you mention over a vali2 may not be noticeable enough, so maybe hold off and go a bit bigger later.

    If you wanted tubes and SS, perhaps a mjo2 would be a good resting place for a while.
     
  3. IndySpeed

    IndySpeed Friend

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    I have a Magni 2 Uber, and my Lyr 2 is a big step up for me with the right tubes. Plus it has quite a bit of versatility. It works with high or low impedance cans and with power hungry planar magnetics. For the price of new tubes, you can change the character of the amp to anything you want. Brighter, neutral, or warm. If you want to go solid state, just pop in a LISST set.
     
  4. Thujone

    Thujone Friend

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    The answer to this question is more headphone dependent than one might think.
     
  5. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    This. Heed his wisdom and get back to us with your headphones and personal preferences.
     
  6. IndySpeed

    IndySpeed Friend

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    Perhaps, he did also ask about DACs in passing too, and I did miss that... I would say that typically the rule of thumb of what makes the biggest difference in sound quality (in the following order) is:
    1. Headphones
    2. Amplifiers
    3. DACs
    4. Sources
    5. Cables (hardly any difference at all as long as they are decent quality)
    To obtain the best bang for the buck, address the ones at the top of the list and move your way down. Having said that, rules are meant to be broken and sometimes sound quality can only be as good as the weakest link. For instance, if you are using a computer as your source and it is noisy, that will probably make everything else noisy. In addition, there might be some debate with the new R2R DACs that they might make more of a difference in sound quality and it needs to be moved up the list.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  7. IndySpeed

    IndySpeed Friend

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    Yes, and if the OP gives us a list, I'm sure some will post in regards to what they believe might be the best pairing...
     
  8. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    I'm currently using the 400i and X00.
     
  9. richard51

    richard51 Mr. Sorbothane

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    a vintage amp ... in the golden era ( mine is sansui au 7700 ) after that in the thousand dollars area i am exploring.... ( elise amp or microzotl )
     
  10. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    And what are the right tubes? Those Electro-Harmonix ones you mentioned in the other thread?
     
  11. IndySpeed

    IndySpeed Friend

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    The OP is just asking for general advice would be my guess. Some people do not want to be confronted with a bunch of questions for a seemingly simple question. Unfortunately, is this a simple question? Yes and no. You can approach this from at least two ways. The one way is where you want to extract theoretically the last 5% from every headphone which is probably more expensive (read: unlikely to be a best bang for the buck for a single amp). You can even ask questions about what sound signature he is after and/or all the headphones he has. He may or may not know which sound signature he is after if he is really new to this. I have a feeling this is not what the OP is really after. Generically, I would suggest the following threads to check for general advice:

    This is considered the best of the 2015 (probably the best list of equipment choices on the forum):
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...erbaf-best-of-2015-golden-schlong-awards.760/

    This is another similar thread:
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/super-best-audio-friends-leaderboard.26/

    Probably the best summary for DAC selections:
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/marveys-dac-chart-of-awesomeness.63/

    If the OP wants to go through a long list of suggestions which may or may not be useful to his specific request:
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/the-all-purpose-advice-thread.19/

    Until we get further guidance from the OP, I think we should go after the other approach which is looking for some of the most cost effective (bang for the buck) amps while providing the most versatility and good soud. To that extent, I don't think you can go wrong with a variety of Schiit products. In fact, they are very well represented in the best of 2015 thread above. Probably listed more often than most any other manufacturer. Having said that, are there other good recommendations probably. But I don't want to recommend something I have not heard myself. Also, not everyone wants to collect DACs, Amps, and/or sources like tick tacks. I actually do have a relatively small collection of these, and once you find something that works well with the majority of headphones you have or might have in the future. I don't really see the need to keep purchasing the next best thing on these. There is always going to be a new product or something that might extract that last 5%, but that typically becomes a losing battle with diminishing returns kicking in a hurry (read: escalating expense). In short, I believe it is the accurate recommendation from me to suggest various Schiit products as having the best bang for the buck for they were recognized very well in the best of 2015, known as having excellent customer service, some of the best prices in the industry, and just great sounding products overall. At this time, I have been using their DACs, amplifiers, and etc. with great success, and I concentrate my acquisition efforts on headphones which I believe most people would agree makes the biggest difference in sound quality in the signal chain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016
  12. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    I'll be honest I have the X00 and I HATE it on tubes, CAN NOT stand it what so ever

    I also have the HE 4, not sure how simmilar it is to the 400i, and I'll say that I like the HE 4 on both Solid State and tubes.

    So for me some of the VERY best Gear I've found is as follows
    I think for a Combo Dac/Amp the Audio GD Product line is one of the best! My NFB10ES2 was like $650 dollars and I love it!!!
    For an equivilant Solid State I'd check out some of KingWa's other products. More than likely, I'll be sticking with Audio GD for a long while

    In terms of tubes, talking PURELY price to peformance, I think the Project Ember II is one of the best for the money you spend on it. I've got the Starlight my self, and I found it to be sonically a step above the Vali 2, how ever I can't compare the Ember II to the Lyr 2, as each is in a different price category

    but for Tubes Garage 1217 has some of the best hybrid amps hands down, you can customize the sound of your amp VERY much.
     
  13. a44100Hz

    a44100Hz Friend

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    I'm strongly considering getting a Lyr 2 with LISST tubes (and, obviously, with some actual tubes) as my do-anything amp. I have two planars now and the power the Lyr provides can apparently be used by them.
     
  14. Scubadude

    Scubadude Almost "Made"

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    After previously posting some less than flattering comments about the Audeze Deckard on this and other forums I picked up a lightly used unit. I have now spent some serious time with this DAC/amp and am a changed man. This is a $700 amp that gives my usual $3500 SPL / Wadia rig a very good run. Not better I would say but certainly not significantly worse. Even if the Deckard is a molested Matrix M-Stage under that sleek BMW Designworks styled exterior, I now rate this as one of the best values in head-fi (am I allowed to use that word?) .... authority and finesse, clarity and warmth, and a wonderfully involving presentation of the sound stage. Mega bang for buck here!
     
  15. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    If there's one thing they've done right it's definitely getting BMW Designworks on board.

    Is the Deckard actually an M-Stage or based on it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
  16. Scubadude

    Scubadude Almost "Made"

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    I believe Matrix is the OEM. The basic topology is similar but specs are not identical. Component selection and construction of the Deckard is better by a mile.
     
  17. techboy

    techboy New

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    SS - Project Polaris
    Hybrid - Project Ember II
    Tube - Val2
     
  18. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I'm part of the Garage1217 camp. Depending on the headphones used, there's an amp for you.

    I have a Sunrise and Ember with a Horizon likely on order to compare. I had a Polaris. Awesome amp.

    Bang for the buck is completely relative to budget range as well.

    The actual best bang for the buck is probably a Fiio, then the small Schiit stack.

    Differences are never night and day like we always say. But they are pronounced enough that I can't stand listening to low end stuff anymore.
     
  19. techboy

    techboy New

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    Fiio isn't good value. Cheap doesn't mean good value. I have owned several Fiio products including the E12. And all of them have been terrible. I prefer my iPhone out to the E12. The E12 is louder but muddy in comparison. And this is with a HD 650.

    A USD 2000 amp may be only 10% better than a USD 100 one. But the advantage of amps like those of Garage1217 are in their versatility, features and ability to alter the sound.

    Apart from that there is probably small changes to be had even with price points that are very far apart.

    So I would rate the Garage offerings the best VFM. Then comes Asus. Then O2 ODAC. Then Schiit.

    But in the tube world Val2 takes away everything. Probably under 1K in fact.
     
  20. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Black Widow. Easily the best SS amp I've heard that punches way above its price tag.
     

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