Schiit Ragnarok 2

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Vtory, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. nilov

    nilov New

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Vilnius
    Hi guys.
    Sorry for oftopic but I have trouble with phono.
    When i select phono input there are no sound from turntable.When volume knob on 12 o'clock - Ragnorok goes to turn off (flashes led).
    I remove all inputs,even speaker cables - same problem.
    When phono input was worked - i hear always white background noise.But now silence,and when turn on volume knob,hear big clicks,and after few seconds ragnorok automatically turn off.
    What could be the problem?m second owner,and no warranty in this case :(
     
  2. Yethal

    Yethal Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Poland
    If it turns itself off it means it's trying to protect itself from burning down, inspect all the cables and the phono card inside for defects.
     
  3. tranq

    tranq Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    US Midwest
    @nilov

    I would email [email protected], describe your problems & situation and politely ask them for an estimate on service & repair.

    They would be the best ones to troubleshoot and help fix your issue..

    Who knows it may need repair, but maybe you'd just need a new phono card, which is relatively cheap..
     
  4. nilov

    nilov New

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Vilnius
    Thanks for answers.
    Im from EU.One shipping costs to California like 1.5 mani:))
     
  5. Yethal

    Yethal Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Likes Received:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Poland
    Did you buy it directly from Schiit or from a distributor? If you bought it from distributor then you should send it back to them and not directly to Schiit. when I had issues with my Yggdrasil I sent it back to Electromod and they sent me a replacement unit
     
  6. nilov

    nilov New

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Vilnius
    Im second owner,becaues of that no warranty now.
     
  7. tranq

    tranq Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Likes Received:
    228
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    US Midwest
    I believe at least some of the european distributors do repairs... have you checked in Europe? and have you emailed schiit support. maybe they have some ideas you can try before shipping it off for repair.
     
  8. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kyiv
    After almost a year of ownership, I decided to share my experience with this amp. My system is Pi2Design 502DAC (custom SMPS with Noise Nuke before the streamer; Moode OS) -> Schiit Gungnir Multibit (A1) -> Schiit Ragnarok 2 -> Kef R300 + Rel T7/i.

    I'll start on a positive note. I enjoy this system very much. It's great soundstage, that extends a bit beyond the speakers in my room. And it was way beyond the speakers in the bigger room and high ceiling. It also has good sense of depth when set up right (speakers are at around 5 feet from the back wall). The recording should have that depth of course. I like that images appear behind the speakers. Speakers almost disappear. My room needs some treatment to make that happen. I have some treble reflections. Which I partially resolve with pillows atm). Sound is a bit on a warm side, but with good resolution. The vocals, violins, cellos sound oh so sweet! Lively. Good overall macro and micro-dynamics. Transients are good, maybe a bit slowed down, comparing to other amps. But it adds that great atmosphere, that amp creates in a way.

    Treble is extended, fast and has good resolution to it. A kind of true to the source. Can be harsh with crappy recordings. But great on good recordings (not harsh at all). Amp just doesn't smooth it out. You can hear all those micro vibrations, timbres of the metal instruments for instance. I have quite reflective room, which also can be a problem with Kefs. But not too much. Very good overall. I'll expand a bit later.

    Midrange is great. It's just sweet. Voices sound so natural. Those guitars! Mmmm... Everything is really great here.

    Bass is full (especially the mid bass), resolute, with good articulation. Not at all the "one note bass". You can hear timbres of bass instruments. My only complain is it's not as much palpable as with other amplifiers. It lacks that mid bass punch a little bit. And it's a bit slow. This is both the Kefs and the amp from what I can say. They just don't play world class together. Don't get me wrong, it's good. But I've heard better. For instance, the Vidar played bass region with more authority and better definition. The punch and palpability appear on higher volumes anyways.

    The Vidar sound a bit clinical. Rag brings music to life from the midrange and up in comparison. I see those two amps combined in my dreams)) But not in this price range I guess. Both are good amps anyways. So it should be a matter of preference and the speakers matching for many people.

    Now, what could go wrong with it? This amp can be confusing. I get where those negative reviews and "Rag 1 is much better" come from. It took me almost half a year to figure out all the nuances of the system (not just an amp). To get there in terms of resolution and joy, I needed to do the following:
    1. Switch an amp to the lowest gain
    2. Feed the streamer with clean power
    3. Figure out the proper wiring
    1. On the gain. It's easy to switch it up. The sound becomes more palpable on lower volumes. Buuuut. Treble starts to sound compressed. You loose some texture. It also sounded grainier, but not as much with clean power on the streamer. Sound appears not only a bit closer to you, but you also loose some depth and layering. It probably helps with hard to drive speakers, but man, I wouldn't do it. So, once again, try to keep the gain at minimum if you want to hear what this amp can bring to the table. And it can a lot! By the way, it's okay to turn the volume knob very high on this particular amp. It's not the potentiometer, you don't loose anything here. I often listen at 3-4 o'clock.

    2. On power for the streamer. Described my experience in details here.

    3. Regarding wires. Oh, man. Why would they bring (or more likely retract) so much??! Default wires are okay, but this can change your experience quite noticeably. And not only in a good way, if you choose wrong stuff. I'll just share what I ended up with. I guess the result might have been better, had I access to more goodies.
    • Power: Belden 83803 power on the Gungnir Multibit (brings up the highs a bit), Cullen Gold on the Rag.
    • Interconnects: Chord Clearway XLR. Extended, resolute but not harsh highs, good bass. Quite neutral I'd say. Bought it used. Good value for money (both balanced and unbalanced cables). Use balanced with the Gungnir Multibit if you can. Also tried a bunch of DIY stuff, balanced and unbalanced, PYST unbalanced (meh, okay for cheap stuff and good for the money of course), QED performance 40 - nice but highs are not as extended as on Chord, bass is not so focused... it's all tiresome.
    • Speaker cable: Kimber 8VS. had to connect as bi-wired. Sounded dull in the bass region when connected with all conductors to two terminals. Even found out that people used 4VS for better bass. My previous bass observations stay the same, tried it with other wire. Just another problem I faced, connected to the cable itself. Didn't try a lot of speaker cables though.
    Also tried it as a preamp with power amps. Good stuff. Retains many above characteristics. Wide and deep soundstage, great dynamics.

    Saga, for instance, throws narrow soundstage in comparison, less dynamics. Shifts sound in between you and the speakers. Love it with Psvane tube. But Rag wins, especially with the balanced connections from the Gungnir Multibit. More resolution that way.

    Also it's a good headamp. From memory (looong time ago), I'd still pick Mjolnir 2 for my HD6xx, but it's great. Also tried it with Focal Clear. Great experience. But not for long. Oh, you can even listen to IEMs on the low gain. I've got the Shure 535. But you get a bit of background noise. Not ideal . Can't comment much, as I'm not in the high end headphones.

    That's all folks! :drunk:
     
  9. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kyiv
    I'd probably email Schiit first. They may have some troubleshooting hints. Anyways, it's not the best option to send the whole unit for repairs. I'd start with just switching the phono module. You need only a couple of screwdrivers and a bit of patience for this. Of course, you'd power off everything, wait till power drains out from capacitors, and make sure to get rid of static. At least touch the rag's chassis before handling the module. But I hope you figured it out till now.
     
  10. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kyiv
    Just wanted to add. Regarding harshness/edginess that people hear with the Rag. I experimented with the surface on which Rag/Gungnir Multibit sit.

    When Rag is placed on a hardwood, I (slightly) hear some resonance from the transformer and a bit of edginess on highs. That's at around 7 feet. Then I added double felt furniture feet under Rag's feet. Harshness lowered quite noticeably. Transformer resonance became inaudible.

    Added same feet under Gungnir Multibit's feet. Less edginess, more clarity. Added some soft polypropylene earplugs under the furniture feet. Even better. Strongly recommend trying this way to fight harshness and gain more resolution. I can now listen to the system on mid and even high gain. Still prefer the lowest gain, but higher gains are better for rock music. Rock sounds anemic on the low gain with Kef R300.

    Yes, materials could be better, different, whatever. Used what I had at hand.

    Also, I wouldn't recommend pairing Kef R300 with this amp. At least not without a sub. They need more juice when playing on the lowest gain. Enough on medium/high gain, but not clean enough IMHO. But good for rock.

    Generally speaking, this combo is great for classics, different mellow and world music. For instance, I quite enjoy such orchestral pieces, as this for instance. But bright with rock/modern crappy mastered music to my liking. Power cables (especially on Gubmby) change tonal balance, but the character of components stays the same.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Respectfully Disagree Respectfully Disagree x 1
    • List
  11. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,763
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I'm not saying something isn't occurring, but I'm reluctant to believe these findings aren't psychogenic.

    As I recall from when I owned Rag 2, and also from what I've read about the design, unlike the other Schiit amps that use negative feedback, there isn't supposed to be a significant sonic difference between the gain settings on Rag 2.

    As for putting earplugs and felt under Gungnir Multibit to reduce harshness and increase resolution, unless someone else can say otherwise and provide me measurements I'm going to go on the record to say I don't believe that, unless it is another device causing a negative effect on the DAC which it's now getting isolation from.

    ofilippov, what is your power situation? What is the gear plugging into? If you're getting transformers making noise is your audio gear running off the same circuit as your washer/dryer? Surge protectors or power conditioners in-line anywhere?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  12. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kyiv
    Thanks for the reply. Regarding power - 230V, straight into the wall. Can't be sure what else is on the line, rented apartment. It seems that this particular line connected directly to the power input, with nothing else, except for another power socket on it. Which I don't use. No surge protectors or power conditioners anywhere. All other appliances were off. Except for some lights. Don't know about neighbors though. And yes, sometimes it's quieter, sometimes - louder. I suspect, not the cleanest power. And no ground btw.

    I shared my experience, which I don't consider to be psychogenic. You're free to either agree or disagree. It ain't cost nothing to try anyway. The difference probably can be neglected with rolled off or warm speakers. It's small. It's a mere tweak that in my case resulted in slightly better sound.

    Edit: almost missed the following:
    Doesn't Rag 2 use negative feedback? Did you read it in one of Jason's chapters?

    The sound is noticeably different on different gain settings. Confirmed by several people who listened to my system. I would be happy to demonstrate you in person, but a bit too far, I guess)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  13. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,763
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Schiit Happened by Jason Stoddard
    Chapter 27: Twilight of the Gods—Ragnarok from 2009 Until Today
    "As far as I know, Ragnarok is the only gain-switchable amp that uses the same overall feedback for all gain levels—which means that the sonic impact of switching gain is effectively nil."

    Sidenote: I owned Rag 2. I didn't hear any hugely significant difference between gain levels.

    Just to protect your gear I'd recommend getting a quality power conditioner with surge protection. Besides the concerns of your neighbors or other things in the building dirtying up your power and messing with your sound, you'd hate to have a surge kill any of your stuff. Also, lack of a ground sounds like an issue to me. I think you want to have your Schiit gear with ground pins to be grounded.

    Less likely, one other thought I have is RF. High frequency RF likes to run along surfaces (some more than others), which is why ferrite chokes are used on some cables to prevent this high frequency noise from reaching our devices. If you have a bunch of RF on the surface your sensitive audio device is sitting on and that's the issue, maybet raising it off the surface could make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  14. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kyiv
    Cool! I need to re-read that chapter.

    I see you have a headphone system. Did you use headphones? From memory, I pretty much liked the sound on the medium gain with Focal Clears. And (again, from memory) gain switch wasn't as noticeable with headphoned.

    Can't do much here, unfortunately. No grounding in the house.

    Yeah, RF can be a pain. But I don't think it has anything to do with what I described before. Anyways, the equipment is stacked one on the other. The Rag is lifted from the floor with lumps of wood. Same lumps between the Rag and the Gungnir Multibit.
     
  15. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,763
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    System I tested Rag 2 on was HD800 and Ether 2 with Gungnir Multibit.

    For the surge protection perspective and protecting your gear, do some research on surge protection that will work without a ground (most of them will not, but I believe some will if designed with a shunt etc.)

    Overall, it seems like you're operating in a hazardous condition without a ground, irrespective of sound. A short could fry your gear or risk a fire.
     
  16. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kyiv
    Thanks for caring. No worries, more than 30 years in similar conditions. Everything was fine. I see however the profits of a properly designed power grid. I could even feel it with my ass, that once touched the washing machine while washing my hands :confused::D
    Unfortunately, we have few buildings with proper power lines.|{
     
  17. cameng318

    cameng318 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Wyoming
    I don't know how feasible is this in your rented apartment. One dirty trick is to tie the ground to metal water pipes. Those things can be decent ground.

    The chassis had to be either really thick or grounded to effectively shield 50/60 Hz noise. I my experience, mains hum makes things sound harsh, while white noise hum makes things sound flat. Maybe the furniture feet helped grounding your Rag 2 and reduced the mains hum. If you happen to have a sensitive IEM, you might find out how much less noise is in your setup.
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I just want to point out that a water pipe will NOT necessarily connect to ground. There could easily be plastic or rubber couplers somewhere along the way and you'd never see it hidden in the wall or floor. If you can verify continuity first, ok, but I'd feel better if you knew for sure there was a separate grounding rod that tied into the water pipe. If you're in a shoddy apartment where lots of crap is questionable, I don't recommend it.

    I only say this because having worked in the construction biz for a while and having also done inspections on old buildings, it's appalling what gets let through. I've seen places with no ground and the live/neutrals reversed. If you try adding ground-to-waterpipes in that scenario, you could accidentally light up the entire apartment floor.
     
  19. cameng318

    cameng318 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Likes Received:
    327
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Wyoming
    This really got me thinking when I was showering tonight. I haven't done enough real world electrician works, so I'm probably missing part of the picture.

    If the pipe is in contact with the building or ground for a distance distance long enough, it should be a charge reservoir large enough to be an effective ground. Probably not large enough to sink 115/230V, but should be enough to shield the chassis for a few audio gears against mains hum.

    All of the home appliances that I've seen the inside don't intentionally connect neutral to ground. I think neutral is only supposed to connect to ground right after the step down transformer, for voltage reference purpose. It should be normal to see a fraction of a volt difference from neutral to ground at home outlets. Thus the chance of neutral shorted to ground is equal to the chance live shorted to ground, that is when the device malfunctions. When such thing happens, things could be equally as bad even if the ground is a proper one.
     
  20. ofilippov

    ofilippov Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Kyiv
    Yeah, not the brightest idea. Also, there're some smart mammals, who plug arc welders to the water pipes. I don't think it would be good for your stereo)

    Sometimes it's done in buildings that don't have the ground line. It's called nulling (neutral wire earthing I guess) instead of grounding. TN-C way. When earth in your sockets combined with neutral at some point. Not recommended for apartments, but better than nothing, as it switches everything off in case of short.
     

Share This Page