Soncoz SGD1 DAC Review

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Bill-P, Apr 23, 2021.

  1. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    MOD ADD: SGD1 measurement here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ncoz-sgd1-vs-geshelli-jnog.10955/#post-347268

    If you have to ask... I was curious. Got this to compare against Modius and see if it can replace Modius in a less expensive rig.

    TL;DR: I don't think I'm hearing the SGD1 as like a "superior" take over Schiit Modius. It's more "different" if anything. SGD1 is brighter, with slightly more grain in the treble region, and less bass impact. Modius is warmer, darker, with markedly smoother (but still kinda grainy?) treble and more bass impact.

    Listening gears:
    DAC: Schiit Modius or Soncoz SGD1
    Amp: Eddie Current Zana Deux #73 or THX AAA 789 (Zana Deux uses ISO-MAX for balanced input)
    Headphone: HD800 s/n 00348 (if that matters?) or HD650

    Songs:

    Get Lucky - Daft Punk (digital version): this one shows a pretty marked difference in bass impact and texture to me. Modius does have much more impact and texture here. It's almost... amazing. SGD1 sounds a bit thin and lifeless here. Modius just sounds... "right" with this song.

    Dreams - Bazzi: the sibilance in this song is just a tad bit more obvious on SGD1. Also, for some reason, SGD1 sounds more... forward, more in-yo-face to me? Modius is obviously more laid-back and again, more impactful. Soundstage is deeper with Modius to me, while SGD1 sounds wider.

    Diamond On The Soles Of Her Shoes - Paul Simon: holy sibilance batman! This is bordering on unlistenable with HD800 to me. HD650... yeah, I can manage it. Again, Modius is more laid-back, and SGD1 is more forward. Modius has deeper soundstage and SGD1 sounds wider. For this particular track, I feel like Modius has better macrodynamic overall. SGD1 sounds... okay, but it's a bit thin, glassy, and kinda... wimpy?

    Raindrops Keeps Fallin' on My Head - Emilie-Claire Barlow: with SGD1, Emilie's voice lacks body here, plus the bass lacks... force. Going to Modius is almost a revelation; Emilie calms down, her voice loses 6dB of sibilance, and the bass is more palpable, more impactful overall. Interesting enough, on this one song, I can hear that Modius is more veiled than SGD1 with HD650. There's like a sheen of "something" on top. I couldn't hear the "veil" with HD800 on the first listen, but I start to notice it after that. The effect is more subtle with HD800 than with HD650.

    Jack Sparrow - Hans Zimmer (Dead Man's Chest soundtrack): this is so compressed I can hear the compression artifact no matter which version I purchase. But this is a song that definitely favors the SGD1: the soundscape is generally darker in the mix and requires a bit of a "lift", width is more important than depth, and the bass is already kind of... one-note-ish. HD800 + SGD1, despite my misgivings with all of the above songs, is the "right" combo here. Worst here would be HD650 + Modius. But to be fair, this is more down to "tone" and the way this song wants more "brightness", rather than because SGD1 is "better" than Modius in any way. I don't think I'm hearing more details with SGD1 than Modius here.

    Bonus round: I swapped out the stock Zana Deux tube (green letter Philips) for brown-base Fivre. I know the Fivre tube will make the amp sound warmer, more syrupy, and fuller overall. Well, it did... alright. Now the "tone" is "okay-ish" but that sibilance remains. I guess I have been so spoiled by Schiit DACs now that pretty much anything and everything else sounds more sibilant. Even a tube amp can't help the SGD1 here. THX AAA 789 + SGD1 combo is... okay-ish with HD650, but really, Modius + Zana Deux will still handily spank that combo in everything.

    So in conclusion, I think the SGD1 is... okay. It's probably not the most offensive D-S DAC I have heard, but it's also not... amazing either. I was hoping it would spank Modius handily in most areas, considering the price point and how much some folks have been raving about it. But I don't think that's the case here. In fact, Modius still has better bass than SGD1 by a large margin: more impact, more body, more texture, more bass details, while everything else (mid and treble and soundstage) are just kind of "different" on SGD1 without being "better". On some songs, I can tell SGD1 may be preferable to Modius with HD650, but I'd much rather have Modius in the chain with HD800, even if I'm using a tube amp.

    Perhaps measurements are not everything then. And hey, seriously, the SGD1 is not a bad DAC. Modius is just an amazing DAC IMHO.

    Edit: also, I tried all of the filters on SGD1. I think... SLL is my favorite. It's linear-phase slow roll-off, I think? The default is some apodizing filter and sounds even thinner. Not my cup of tea.

    Edit 2: size comparison and stuffs:
    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2021
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Which one is the SGD1, the top one or bottom one?
     
  3. Brubaker

    Brubaker New

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    It's the bottom one.
     
  4. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    The bottom one. I expected more from the size to be honest.
     
  5. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    Thanks for the review, Mr. P. My guess from triangulation of all I had heard from others was that this was just another over-hyped and -priced dac from Asia. Nothing in your experience has made me think otherwise. The measurements cult will love it.
     
  6. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Well. It is a ESS9038Q2M DAC after all. Only good ones I heard with that particular mobile grade Sabre chip are the Burson ones like the Swing dac/pre-amp (already discontinued) or the Conductor series. Those sound pretty good, being Sabre...

    I wonder how schiit's new delta sigma DACs will hold up once they have to move from AKM :/
     
  7. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Nice review. Thanks @Bill-P

    Some thoughts below.
    • Recently watched a rave review of sgd1 dac -- over Modius -- posted on Youtube (by one of the forum member; link not attached). And he also seems very enthusiastic with Chords (Qutest, Dave, and M-Scaler) and RME. The contrast between these sgd1 reviews may be telling some interesting characterization.
    • My experience with 9038q2m dacs from Topping and SMSL was generally a lot worse. If I use Modius as a baseline, my description could a little more hostile. Assuming Bill is more nitpicking than myself, my triangulation suggests SGD1 could be actually good for those who want such sounding.
    • Also just adding I generally found 9038pro products more pleasing than 9038 q2m ones. Could be attributable to a lot of confounders. But hugely suspecting chip-level difference (post-adjustments using multi ch output included) could play a meaningful role.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
  8. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, I think I am pretty particular with regards to the "tone" of a device. That's like #1 priority to me. Details, layering, and soundstage be damned.

    And that's just because I know exactly what I like/dislike. It doesn't mean the SGD1 is a bad device at all. Live @Vtory said, someone who likes a brighter and less "dull"-sounding DAC than Modius will most likely enjoy this better.

    Also, the "negative" aspects of the SGD1 like sibilance were very "slight" in comparison to Modius. The brightness lift did help with certain songs that I own as well, so it's not like it's not a good contender. Plus it has a ton of other features: supports DSD decoding, Bluetooth 5.0, and it has a remote control, on top of the knob thing being multi-function, and it can double as a preamp. In comparison, Modius is really just a DAC, and I'll need to purchase a separate preamp if I need that feature.
     
  9. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    Thanks for the impressions @Bill-P
    This tone seems like it isn't for me, and I greatly appreciate your opinions on this. I don't often listen to female vocals as 90% of my listening experience but if I did this might be a good choice given all of its features.

    I don't think this is the right dac for me as I listen to Jazz Trios, Stoner rock, or the occasional indie/prog rock thrown in :punk:
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    @Bill-P, would you be willing to send this over to me? I'm curious how this would compare against the Geshelli JNOG. Unlike the Modius, where the balanced output sounds noteable better than the SE, the JNOG outputs seem to sound the same or very close. The JNOG is a different spin, leaner, less phat but not necessarily brighter than Modius in SE. Modius balanced out may edge out JNOG in that it has less of that "velvet" mushy sound, but this could be a matter of taste.
     
  11. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Oh yeah, I'd be happy to! Actually, there's the personal loaner thread so I can just push it to you first and you can dissect it.
     
  12. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    This is the first time I can remember getting ears on an ESS dac, so I was hoping to spend some quality time with it. Unfortunately, it arrived at the start of the holiday weekend and then I ended up being called out of town for work, so my time ended up being pretty limited. I ran thru bits and pieces of my track list, but didn’t listen straight thru the entire list with any of the various combinations.

    Rigs –

    Pi2AES -> AES -> SESCOM -> BNC -> Metrum Amethyst -> Mogwai SEv2+ -> ZMF Eikon (Cherry/Eikon Lamb)
    Pi2AES -> AES -> SESCOM -> BNC -> SFD-1 Mkii SE+ -> 3F -> ZMF Auteur (Cocobolo/Eikon Lamb)
    Pi2AES -> AES -> SESCOM -> BNC -> Bitfrost 2 -> SW51+ -> Senn HD600

    Soncoz inserted into each system: Pi2AES -> AES -> Soncoz

    Anner Bylsma Prélude to Bach’s Suite for solo cello No. 1 in G major
    The 5 Browns Malagueña from Andalucia Suite
    Pamela Frank/Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra Mozart’s Serenade No. 7 for orchestra in D major
    John Williams/John Etheridge Extra Time for 2 Guitars
    Duplessy & The Violins of the World Kung Fu
    Kaki King Ingots
    The Beatles Norwegian Wood
    Carl Anderson Heaven on their Minds
    James Brown It’s a New Day, Pts. 1-2
    Earth Wind & Fire Shining Star
    Los Lonely Boys I Don’t Wanna Lose Your Love (Live at Blue Cat Blues)
    Led Zeppelin Moby Dick (from How the West was Won)
    Daft Punk Giorgio by Moroder
    Cream Badge
    Ben Harper & The Blind Boys of Alabama Take My Hand
    Horace Silver Quintet Finger Poppin’
    Maynard Ferguson Birdland
    Phil Woods Rain Dance (Live from the Showboat)
    Bill Evans Trio Detour Ahead [Take 2]
    Ray Charles/Count Basie Orchestra Oh, What a Beautiful Morning
    Macy Gray Redemption Song
    Joni Mitchell California

    Given the lack of critical listening time, I’m going to limit this to general impressions:
    1. The manual was an abomination… I can’t believe there wasn’t even have a basic explanation of the various filters. Without much time, I pretty much just used the default filter that came on with the AES input (BRIC). It’s very probable that the filter used may have held back the dac.
    2. Based on my past reading about ESS dacs, I expected bright, harsh and glarey. While I did find the dac a little on the bright side, I didn’t think it was harsh or glarey at all. If anything, I found the treble somewhat unremarkable. No problems with sibilance in my test track listening, but the cymbals sounded off - tinny and no shimmer.
    3. Midrange was ok, nothing stood out.
    4. Bass – I found the bass lacking – no slam, no grunt… hit like a wet noodle compared to the Bitfrost.
    5. Technicalities – The Soncoz didn’t really draw attention to anything, but I can’t say that I felt I was missing out either (I realize my comparison dacs aren’t detail monsters).
    6. The Soncoz definitely needs some meat on the bones – it succeeded in making the Mogwai sound thin (which I don’t think I’ve ever experienced before) and the 3F sounded paper thin.

    I finished my listening this evening thinking this was pretty underwhelming. Nothing really sounded bad, but I can’t say I ever felt drawn into the music… I never had the “just one more song” pull (which happens to me all the time on my regular rigs).
     
  13. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Now I am wrapping up my evaluation of this loaner product.

    First of all, I'd thank Bill for generously giving me (and sbaf) a great opportunity of evaluating this dac product.

    As five days are not enough to make any kind of bold claims, I want potential readers to regard this review as a biased and incomplete set of thoughts.

    Evaluation done with the following configuration:

    • DACs compared = Sokeris DAC 2541 (Discrete R2R), Motu M4 (D/S: ESS 9016), Topping DX3 (D/S: AKM 4493)
    • Chain = {DACs} → {Preamps} → Schiit Jotunheim II → Audeze LCD-X 2021 / Focal Clear Mg / Hedd HEDDphone
    • Jot2's pot all the way right (max). Instead I used digital volume features on both dacs to get convenient level matching.
    • Schiit SYS and Freya S used for convenient unbalanced/balanced switching purposes.
    Stream of consciousness below

    1. Physically very big and heft. Dimension-wise, it pretends as if it deserves the msrp.

    2. Really frustrating UI. I generally think Chinese products are extremely poor in human engineering. Unfortunately, Soncoz updated my lower bound. In particular, the way it displays its volume level is even worse than Topping. I'd rather prefer digitized numbers to ring lamp (it only distinguishes jokingly few steps wtf?). Dial-based interface is also very confusing when combined with minimal front panel presentation. Arguably the worst user experience in my audio journey. Marv described this issue (and #3) very well here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ncoz-sgd1-vs-geshelli-jnog.10955/#post-347268

    3. The manual is not only in crappy printing quality but also insufficiently describing features. Again, topping did slightly better job -- at least they didn't give me half an hour of confusion in the first day.

    4. I experimented every filter myself and found my preference closer to the apodizing filter. But want to make clear that filters differed mildly at most. I could not hear enough delta to change any of my thoughts or conclusion.

    5. I first compared its sound to my reference dac 2541 (Soekris). They're not contestable at all. Every time I switched to 2541, all the musical components sounded far more immersive and fuller. ABing them did annoy me too much to focus on SGD1 evaluation.

    6. Next, I compared it to Motu M4. Then, the comparison made more sense to me. They were not only similar in quality level but also shared sonic characteristics partly due to ESS chips built in the products (SGD1: 9038QM, M4: 9016). Both dacs had a little recessed and rawboned/meatless bass. SGD1 was meaningfully more colored and smeared in highs by comparison. I also found SGD1 had slightly better details (not dynamics tho) to my ears, which -- ironically -- revealed its own drawbacks more clearly. In most cases M4 gave me more satisfying and cohesive experience but heavily synthesized/compressed tracks seemed to favor SGD1 more often than not if not always.

    7. I also added Topping DX3 to the mix. Very interestingly, despite different dac chips inside both, I heard similar velvety highs from SGD1 and DX3. No idea why but my guess is Soncoz tried to tame ESS in their own ways and their sonic target might be Topping or some other best sellers in China. SGD1 performed meaningfully better in anything else in the technicality checklist though.

    8. From my memory of higher Chinese D/S dacs, I'd put Matrix X-Sabre Pro above SGD1 in offering better technicality and staging any day. I also clearly take Gustard DAC-X26 (Now OOP; replaced by X26 Pro) over this in terms of almost Matrix-like quality bass yet tastefully dark highs. But these two DS dacs I like are multiple times more expensive. Not a fair comparison I think.

    9. Overall, Soncoz SGD1 dac was a mixed bag to me. Its UI and UX were downright terrible, but its sound was better than I was ready for. Its asking price of $500 doesn't make much sense to me and if I were to choose a dac for that price category, I'd rather save up to Bifrost 2 which isn't too far from SGD1 in price. Nevertheless, I can't quite think of a D/S dac among anything cheaper that perfectly kills SGD1. I may have to hear Modius again, but from the memory, Modius doesn't seem a dominant winner (beside Modius's price makes way more sense). If it came with more intuitive interfaces, physical buttons, better manual, and more reasonable price ($150-200?), I might recommend it to some with niche tastes.
     
  14. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Onkyo C7030 > SGD1(vs Modi 3+) > Eddie Current 445 > Focal Elex

    Not much to say. Strident highs, absent lows. Has a nice tone and is quite fluid, but too many other problems to seriously consider. Listened for a few hours and was done with it. Was relieved to switch back to Modi 3+/Vinyl. Modi 3 is a much better DAC even though its less resolving.

    Again, where the hell is the bass?

    EDIT: oh and the AES input did not work... intermittent sound but could not seem to get a signal lock.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Oh you too on the AES? I couldn't get it to work and thought it was me - user error - since the UI was so terrible. Oh well.
     
  16. scblock

    scblock Friend

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    Thanks to @Bill-P for making this available as a loaner.

    I listened to the Soncoz SGD1 in two systems: in my two-channel setup against a Bifrost Multibit (all single ended) and in my desktop setup against a Modius (SE and balanced). I fed all DACs via SPDIF from a Raspberry Pi with a HifiBerry Digi+ Pro HAT.

    The SGD1 design is relatively simple visually, and would probably fit into most systems without drawing attention to itself. On the desktop the icons on the front panel are clearly and evenly lit, and relatively easy to read. The filter abbreviations used on the panel are not obvious and I had to look them up, but I’m also not convinced that having a lot of filter options is “good” anyways. Overall it looks nice from the front. In a speaker-based setup the icons are entirely illegible, and a text display might be better overall. The remote is decent, though the labels on that are also non-obvious and a few buttons don’t actually do anything.

    I am not at all a fan of how overloaded the dial control is. It does volume (represented visually, if poorly, by a ring of orange lights around the dial), filter changes, and input changes depending on how and how long the dial is pressed. I would prefer a couple dedicated buttons to cycle inputs and filters rather than the extra complexity. I eventually settled on the fast roll off linear filter and apodizing filter for most listening.

    Broadly speaking I found the SGD1 and Modius to have similar overall tonality, both sounding generally clean and accurate, and mostly neutral. Compared to the Bifrost Multibit which has a darker tone. In most cases I prefer the Bifrost sound, but don’t find the leaner sound of the SGD1 or Modius to be an issue.

    In speaker listening the difference in tone was the thing I most noted. The SGD1 did seem to retrieve more detail than the Bifrost. In more focused desktop listening where I spent more time the unit the main thing I noted was more of a tendency towards sibilance and edginess on the highs. Recordings with highs that sound like they are right at the edge of overdone through Modius sounded actually overdone on the SGD1. On less compromised recordings the SGD1 occasionally sounded like it was more detailed than the Modius, but it tended towards a sense of false detail, like using too much sharpening on a photograph.

    I didn’t find the SGD1 to be objectionable, but I prefer the Modius and given the price difference struggle to find the value. It's pushing up towards Bifrost 2 prices which I would probably prefer. The remote and volume control could be a nice plus, but not a dealbreaker. Given the choice of DAC chip (ESS 9038) and specs list and manual focused on numbers, this certainly seems marketed more at someone like my objectivist friend who buys DACs based on numbers rather than sound and is always chasing higher numbers (in measurements, model numbers, and sometimes price).
     
  17. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    Apologies for not writing something sooner and double apologies for the useless impressions that follow…

    The whole reason for me to try this dac was as a possible replacement in my 2 channel rig for the Lavry DA11. Why? The Lavry controls are f'ing convoluted and frustrating. I have to dig out the manual, either on paper or on my phone, any time I think about doing anything other than pressing the on/off button. Thankfully I don’t have to do this often and that is probably a contributor as to why I can’t retain it in my memory banks but I digress. The Lavry otherwise sounds fantastic and I have no desire to change based on sound.

    The Soncoz random consonant/number combination dac fits my budget and I had always been interested on hearing or not hearing such an objective chart topping-er. The Soncoz designer is also the designer of the original Khadas Tone Board, which seemed pretty cool too. Never got around to trying that but I digress again.

    The Soncoz Wheel of Fortune RSTLN and E is freaking huge for what it is. I was surprised and bummed. It dwarfed the DA11. These are mobile chips aren’t they? I’m tight on space, so this was an instant no go. That and the craptastic user interface and I’m already ready to send this on to the next victim. I guess I should listen to it, eh?

    Pi2AES fed via Coax, while the DA11 was fed AES. This let me insta-switch immediately. I think was using linear fast roll-off on the Soncoz but who knows; at this point I didn’t care.

    Soncoz was a little louder, so that means the Lavry setting recommendation for single ended is perhaps a little lower than 2v? Otherwise I thought it sounded fine. The two noticeable differences were that the Soncoz was less rich in bass; it just sounded a little lighter. And the Soncoz sounded flatter dimensionally. It just didn’t sound as 3 dimensional as the DA11; and I’m not using any of the staging/dimensional settings on the DA11.

    Too big, too clunky, slight step back in sound. Not bad, not memorable, don’t care. Off to the next victim.
     

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