Schiit Folkvangr Review - Measures like shit, but sounds GRRREAT

Background: Have been listening to my FV extensively with HD800s, HD6xx, Focal Clear OG with stock tubes. All good, nothing really interesting to add - I agree with many impressions here. Really glad I bought my first $1k+ headphone amp and it was this one. It's largely displaced my Mjolnir 2 except for LCD-3.

More interestingly, wanted to experiment with a very high impedance headphone. Bought a secondhand pair of Beyerdynamic 880 Premium 600 Ohms. Made the mistake / good mistake of plugging them into my Folkvangr first - I don't have any experience with this set of cans, just what I've read. It was great - V shape was nicely used/shaped by FV, very impactful bass that was rounded without feeling muddy, highly articulate treble that wasn't shouty/honky/too much. Some mid-bass bloominess, but not so much it drove me crazy. Listened to a bunch of Medeski Martin & Wood, Cannonball Adderly, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Smiths, Charlie Hunter Trio, RTJ. Liked it more with acoustic music than Hip-Hop / Pop because of the treble treatment. Suffice it to say that in high gain I really liked the pairing, and thought "man, these are some comfortable f'ing cans, not sure what the big deal is about, they're not near my better cans, but I like them and can see spending a day working in them they're so damn comfy."

Then plugged 'em into my Mjolnir 2 to compare. Ugh. Lasted 3 minutes. Can't stand 'em. Also tried out of iPhone/Fiio X3, awful. Congested, agonizingly trebley. No fun-o-rama. Not again.

Got 'em so cheap, I keep 'em for the Folkvangr. Frankly it's goof to have a pair of cans that are this comfortable I can forget I'm wearing them, and they're both engaging and get out of the way. But not with another amp, thanks very much.

 

Does the FV have even output impedance across the spectrum? Ive got Focal Clear OGs and I cant use them on my tube amp.... They get damn bloaty in the mid bass for most music types unless I use tubes that have even or recessed bass. Just asking for the future, used market.

 

The Clear has a big impedance bump in the bass, so its frequency response is exaggerated there by high output-impedance tube amps (here are a few examples).

The Folkvangr though isn't bad in that respect: with its impedance multiplier switched off, its output Z at high gain is 18 Ohms and at low gain is & 7 Ohms; with the impedance multiplier switched on (so it'll play well with low-impedance planars), it's 8 Ohms & 3.5 Ohms, respectively. Here's how those settings would boost the Clear's bass if its FR from a notional zero-impedance amp is represented by a flat line:



Even at Folkvangr's highest output impedance, the peak around 50 Hz would be exaggerated by less than 2 dB.

 

Quick question - I've been loving the FV with the ZMF Verite Open's. Listening at reasonable volume to acoustic bass/piano, low gain, impedance multiplier off, I have been getting occasional cut-outs. Like 10-15 seconds long, a couple times an hour. No audible click or pop before or after, just goes silent and then comes back on. Listened to my Mjolnir 2 off the same Gungnir Multibit/Ropieee combo for a couple hours to make sure, and though it's not scientific, I didn't get any cutouts.

Could it be a protection mode? Tube with issues (I've removed and reseated them all carefully)? Something specific to my Gungnir Multibit's output (I could try a different DAC, but this seems so weird). It's so occasional and unpredictable.

Thanks for any ideas.

 

Hi there! Happy member of The Mjolnir 2 and Folvanger Owners Society. I’ve been spending quality time with the Folkvanger for about a month now and I have some impressions to share.

Yep! So far, the “highest” wow for each set of cans I’ve tried looked like this: (where “wow” is about how fun it gets, not how neutral/detailed).

Code:

+——————————-———-+—————-+—————————————————————-+—————————--+
| Headphone     | Gain | Impedance Multiplier | Wow?      |
+——————————-———-+—————-+—————————————————————-+—————————--|
| HD600/6xx     | High | Off                  | Very Nice |
| DCA Stealth   | High | Off                  | Very Nice |                 
| F.Utopia ‘22  | High | Off                  | Very Nice |               
| LCD-X 2021    | Low  | On                   | Nice      |
| Grado 325x    | High | On                   | Very Nice |
| Grado PS500e  | High | On                   | Baller    |
| Grado GS1000e | High | On                   | Very Nice |                   
+———————————————+—————-+——————————————————————+——————————-+

- My opinions may change as I listen more. I’m still in honeymoon period.
- Stock tubes. I won’t get to rolling until I get to know the toy better.
- MJ2 vs Folkvangr is a hard fight to behold. Like when Batman and Superman fought until one of them said “Martha”. They definitely have different character - earlier in the thread someone said FV is “vintagey”, and I agree. MJ2 is more refined. Let’s say FV is self taught and super competent, MJ2 is just as good but went to college and has a more fastidiously precise handwriting. Or something like that. Also, FV punches and slams harder at a bar fight, MJ2 does judo. #nonsense
- LCD-X is not that happy here, but in general I think LCD-X is best used with solid state for me. It seems to be rather sensitive to the tube character and get slightly confused. I noticed this the most with Peter Gabriel’s “Mercy Street”, the placement and detail is not as good as these cans do with other amps. It sounded best with the impedance multiplier on. With higher gain I start hearing the noise floor hiss at reasonable listening levels.
- I’ve had Folkvangr both with Gungnir MB and Yggdrassil OG A2. No educated preference with this amp so far.
- On/off with the multiplier, I can hear something done to vocals (especially with Grados). Not sure what else folks are hearing. Definitely preferred it for some.
- I’ve never heard the PS500e sound this happy before. This was a golden combo for me, especially for Hard Rock.

@atomicbob: PM me if you want to measure it. I believe we’re in the same metro area.

 

Just returned from an extended and much needed holiday break. After ~6 awesome hours this morning of Pavane >> Folkvangr >> Maze 109 Pro's - I thought I'd share a few more thoughts on this awesome amp (in no priority / order):

• This chain (Pavane >> Folkvangr >> 109 Pro) has stupid synergy. Seriously. It is stealing listening time from my customized TU-8900, Empyrean Elite (though @jexby has been enjoying them with Oor over the holidays), Spring 3 and HQPlayer.
• Whether I'm listening to Elite or 109 Pro with Folkvangr, I starting to trust its presentation over other amps. It may be flawed thinking on my part, but it's OCL design with nothing between tube output and headphones, seems to better preserve music in both time & frequency domains. While presentations can vary with DAC, filter, headphones, etc. FV gives what it gets. I never run with the Impedance Multiplier for partly this reason. This amp is truth in amplification - why mess with it?
• I'm running telefunkens as drivers. The stock tubes are just fine, but drop in some quality NOS for the best FV can render.

If you can assemble a synergistic chain with Folkvangr in it, this amp can complete with (by audio memory) the best I've owned / heard (EC's, Donald Norths, custom builds). Thanks again for scratching this itch @schiit.

 

It’s time to create the Folkvanger Owners Association for reals, hehehe.

@MisterRogers : have you had a chance to play with Grados? I agree with your sentiment re:impedance multiplier, but I am genuinely surprised at how much fun Grados get with it.

 

No, I've never been a fan of the ergonomics of 'on ear' headphones, so apart from a brief listen here or there at meets, Grado's haven't been in my collection.

 

I would like to measure the Folkvangr but my lab queue is so backed up it might be several months before I could possibly get to it. When I feel I have an opening that would involve a reasonable time away from your enjoying the amp, I'll contact you.

 

Anyone had success getting rid of the 50 / 60 Hz hum noise?

I was planing of trying to replace the input tubes with some new production ones.

In my still ongoing chat with Schiit support, they expressed the possibility, after excluding all the other troubleshooting possibilities (schiit.com/guides/amp-problems), that "It does sound like it can be a tube issue.".

 

Is it hum from the unit itself or hum through the headphones?

My problem is hum from the low quality cheap transformers Schiit uses. They are all poorly laminated and on 230v they vibrate and hum.

 

Actually, both. But for me the phisical hum is a non issue, it does not bother me.

The clean 60Hz hum that gets to the phones (which is fixed level independent of volume, only affected by gain setting) is an issue at high gain. At low gain, I can live with it.

I started using my Chord Hugo as dac, for it can output 4+ volts (curently using it at 3V, which is the default dac mode level), so basically I don't need to engage high gain.

Also to my ears, low gain seems to give some extra microdynamic juiciness, which I like better most of the time.

I'll do some research which input tubes may be less noisy, and give it a try.

 

Not sure where I saw it, but someone had a problem with humming but solved the issue by securing the loose lamination on the transformer. Perhaps this may be the problem?

 

Got to hear the Folkvangr with the Beyerdynamic T1.2 - two items I am completely new to. Yggdrasil was the source and I thought the pairing sounded mighty fine. Like a really nice DT-880 that had its issues tamed while keeping that type of bass I feel like the Beyer triplet are known for (770,880,990)

 

If it's louder on high gain and you have ruled out ground loops it is almost certainly the tubes. It's not really a question of which kinds of tubes will be less noisy, more just that you have a bum tube with interelectrode leakage. Many Ukrainian sellers of Soviet tubes do not test so buying at random wold be a roll of the dice but I would recommend getting your 6N1P from RadiotubesShop on Etsy, cheap and not had a bad tube from them yet.

 

I was the one that recently purchase the Folkvangr up for sale here. I have to say I fully agree with you when it comes to the time and frequency domain. I'll make a quick comparison between this amp and the Elekit TU-8600s.

The Elekit TU-8600s comes off as more muscular, notes are thicker/have more weight when compared to the Folkvangr. Bass is stronger on the Elekit but that could be a good or bad thing dependent on your taste. Think of the Elekit as more of heavy weight fighter that's in your face throwing fast, but heavy punches, while the Folkvangr is a middle weight, able to dart in and out, with better finesse, while still being able to rock you with power punches if you're not careful.

The Folkvangr beats the TU-8600s in a few areas. First, sound stage: As I mentioned about the TU-8600s throwing punches in your face, the Folkvangr has a more open and bigger headstage compared to the Elekit. Both are wide but the Folkvangr just beats it in depth. Think of the TU-8600s as 4 seats back while the Folkvangr has at least 8 - 10 seats back view of the show. I feel like music sound stage is much better portrayed with the Folkvangr than with the Elekit.

Second, the Folkvangr eerily reminds me of the ECP DSHA3F Ravenswood. There's an ease to the music, it's liquid, except that it doesn't fully capture the microdynamics that the 3F is known for. It's close but there are things that the 3F is just too good at. It's just an easy, open, and fluid sound. You can just float music.

Third, pairing: The Atrium which is talked about is an amazing pairing with this amp. Great synergy here. I haven't found a tube combination that I've liked with the OG Auteurs as much as I love the Elekit with it. On the other hand, the ZMF Pendant did great with the Atrium and Auteurs. I'll dive into this a bit later once I get the HD-650 and Verite Open on the Folkvangr.

Lastly, tubes: This amp needs a nice pair of E88CC tubes. I've rolled several tubes I had laying around since the MJ2 days. Amperex 6922s, Mullard E88CCs, Siemens E88CC, JJ E88CCs but the E188CC Telefunkens are magical with it. The Teles sound amazing with the Mullards coming second; tied with the Siemens. It needs to be said, the Telefunken are just expensive as hell. It could be there are new market E88CC/6922s that are great but in terms of tube nervosa I'm there. My Elekit has been running from 7:30 AM to 6:30 - 7 PM for the past few years without breaking a sweat. I have a feeling the EML 300B and the rest of the tubes will go another 5 years easily. I can't imagine having to replace all of these tubes on the Folkvangr and I fear i'll never find another pair of NOS Telefunkens for a reasonable price. But, damn if it doesn't sound great.

I'll post a more thorough review later since this is a stream of thought post.

Pics or it never happened:

 

For a second I thought you had a prototype Bifrost with tubes!

 

So after a few weeks wanted to add some more info.

Folkvangr:
Definitely a different sound sig compared to my Elekit TU-8600s. Amp has a more softer, airier vibe compared to the more muscular TU-8600s. I'm not saying that the Folkvangr doesn't slam, it does, but it's not as heavy as the Elekit.

The Folkvangr has a more realistic sound stage. It's more spread out but at a lower angle than the Elekit. Think of the Elekit as driving in an SUV but you're looking at the road in front of you while the Folkvangr has a Honda Civic image view. Lower, to the ground, and more solid. The tempo/beat/sound stage feels more realistic on this amp compared to the Elekit.

Ohms: From experience, an amp with a higher ohm output has more mid slam and a bigger sound stage. This amp though, with it's low ohm output has mostly the same slam with that forward mid sound. When you pair it with the Verite Open it's fast, tight, and hits hard. I wasn't expecting this synergy with the VO until I hooked it up. It also has great synergy with the Atrium Open but the VO absorbs the fast, transients of this amp and tight beats. Great mix together.

Sound Stage: Bigger than my Elekit, SW 51+, ZMF Pendant, but not as big as the GLENN OTL. On the other hand, it's bigger and deeper than most amps I've heard.

Tubes: Again, there's a bit of nervosa. This amp uses a ton of tubes. 8 x 6n6P and 2 6922/e88cc/ruskie equivalent. I don't feel this with the 300B Elekit and 12AX7 Tubes. Again, I've been running the Elekit for years without switching out the tubes and it has not skipped a beat.

This amp seriously reminds me of the DHSA-3F sound sig. The top end has great sparkle without going into the "ouch" territory. You'll find yourself turning up the sound until it's really beating your ear drums into submission which is what I found with the 3F. Great clarity that matches up with the Elekit.

Recommended: Highly for your headphones. I'm not sure how it'll do with planars but it's great for dynamics. It does a great job with timing and layering. The Elekit has it's strength when it comes to slam and decay. The Folkvangr doesn't get the last bit of micro that the Elekit gets but it's very close (amps are $1k apart). I highly recommend this amp if you get a chance.

Conclusion: The Elekit is a more versatile amp. Gives you good sound stage, great slam, headphone and speaker out. The Folkvangr has a better headphone out but it's not as versatile as the Elekit. Even with my tube nervosa as long as you're happy listening to the Folkvangr who f'ing cares. This is a seriously fun amp.

 

Not to distract from Folkvangr, but what caps are you running in the Elekit? Also, it's been my experience so far that the 12AU7s can affect the overall presentation in the 8600 nearly as much as the 300Bs.

 

Purchased the V-Caps that Viktor offered as an upgrade. I'm running the Emission Labs 300, 2 x 12 AU7 JJs, and a Electro Harmonix 7025. It's a more hifi type of sound. With the Psvane 300B having a lighter touch but blacker background but it's still more muscular compared to the Folkvangr.

Not saying that the 8600s is thick or slow. It’s just the Folkvangr does a better job at timing. The 8600s is still my daily driver. When I settle down and can focus I turn on the Folkvangr.