Eddie Current Zana Deux S

that's the general rule with tube amps, but I find the rectifier tubes have a big impact with the ZDS and I bet different power tubes would at least have some impact. My Sylvania EY500 rectifiers are substantially brighter and more bas light than my Philips ECG rectifiers which are baser with less treble but can be a bit smoothed over sounding. I think they're both made by Sylvania they look identical in construction, with long copper sheets inside. But I bet they were made in different factories and have slight differences accounting for the sound differences.

 

Dear RD,

I currently have 15 tube speaker amps I have had starting back in 2001. Tubes I use are Sovtek 6L6WXT- Russian 6P3S-E- New production Tung Sol 7581A- and Chinese 6L6. I mention these as they are the most familiar. I mostly use NOS oddball 10GK6/ 12v6/ 14C5 tubes because they sound great and they are very inexpensive ($3 per power tube)..Six are tube rectified , one is hybrid tube /SS using a 6X3 half wave rectifier on the top wave and SS on the bottom wave and eight are SS rectified. I use anything from 12SN7/ 12AU7./ 7N7/ 7AF7/ 6GU7-6CG7/5HA7/ 5HC7 for input tubes. The rectifiers I like are the 5U4G /5U4GB/. 5AS4(U4 direct sub) and the half wave 6AX3 ($1-2 each).

What I know for certain is that input tubes make the most difference by far. Power tubes by class 6L6 Vs 6BQ5 definitely sound different but power tubes of the same type say 6L6 are not drastically different. I do really like the new production Ting Sol 7581A and the military 6P3S-E and see them as a tube that delivers slightly better sound. The Chinese and Russian basic 6L6 types usually distinguish themselves with a little glare or hardness .... but that is easily worked around.

When you are talking the 6C33 tubes in the Zana Deus those tubes are just not very different sounding if at all. They were military tubes used for power regulation. They were never designed to be a power tube/ audio tube. The 6C33 was never built to any exacting standards. There was one older variation the 6C18 but I remember most stating those tubes were inferior. Their section matching for the 6C33 can be horrendous. But, they are great at passing lots of current at low plate voltages which is why designers like to use them. They can scald you in an instant because they require 6.6 amps of heater current when run at 6.3 volts. They eat tube sockets. Do not touch a working 6C33.

The stocks of 6C33's are getting very depleted and tubes you get now can be the worst examples of the type. I would only get them from a reputable tube dealer. Don't expect them to sound any different. They were mostly made in the same Ulyanovsk factory with some small runs from other factories through out their production. The best years were before 1990. Years ago (2005-2009) you could get good ones on ebay cheap. Now you risk getting trash. Save your money for good input tubes.

Rectifiers are very subtle. I can tell tube vs SS rectification apart. Mainly because the tube rectifiers do not produce bass as well and they tend to give the sound a more relaxed vibe. But using the the same type tube rectifier I will simply say I think people have vivid imaginations. The only rectifier I have thought I might have heard a difference with was a RCA 5U4G which sounded thicker bacause I don;t think the tube could keep up with the power supply of the amp it was in. I have every 5U4/5AS4 you can name and I just do not hear any difference. The GB version of the 5U4 G is uprated and you can notice the extra current in the bass with lower power ( say 6BQ5) tube amps. I like the Tung Sol 5U4GB because they last forever. NOS rectifiers do generally last longer, Otherwise???

 

ha. We have very different experiences because the 3 kinds of EY500 rectifiers I have for the ZDS sound drastically different. the Sylvanias ruin the sound of the amp, it becomes too bass light and bright. Think what you want, I trust my ears.

And I have heard otherwise about the Soviet power tubes.

My real question is whether these are bad tubes or if these tubes always sound scratchy when first fired up. These were made in 1979. They should be good but I don't know if this is normal for these weirdo huge tubes.

Has anyone else experienced scratchy sound when first firing up a pair of brand new power tubes in the ZDS?

 

There's a ton of variations on the model number for these tubes. Do they all work in the ZDS? EC calls for the 6C33C-B, but there are all of these and they all look the same...

6S33S-V
6S18S
6C18C
6S33S
and more...

Except I found one cool looking pair made in the 60's that has no bumps on the top. Model 6S18S

 

I have tried the 6C18C and the 6S18S when I had the ZDS, and they sounded a bit brighter than stock to me.

I agree that the rectifiers made a difference in the overall presentation of the sound. I ended up really liking some telefunkens.

 

Do any other driver tubes work with the ZDS other than 6SL7? Anyone have a list of tubes that work with/without adapters?

Anyone have any success with any other tube types?

 

I was using a RCA clear top 6FQ7 tube with a 6FQ7 -> 6SN7 adaptor on my ZD SE, not 100% sure of the brand though, second-handed stuff in China can be a bit tricky. It make the ZD SE sounded a bit darker, with slightly more mids, I liked it. The difference wasn't that obvious but it's there.

And I'm 90% sure that I used a Shuguang WE 6SN7 tube, but it died a few months later. I remember it made the sound clearer without losing much mids or the musical enjoyment, but still, there was a little deciding between Shuguang 6SN7 and the OG 6SL7 tube for me. But that didn't really happen when I tried the 6FQ7 tube, guess I just loved darker sound.

 

Some people have raved about ECC35 Mullards but I got some very worn ones and they did not take over as my favorite.

@Bill-P settled on a Fivre for the very old OG Zana he bought from me. @brencho also liked the Fivre in the old OG Zana when he had it. I used Tung Sol Black Glass round plate 6SL7.

These are all nutso in pricing now though.

 

6SN7 don't need adapter and 6f8g on adapter work ok, lower output volume I believe.

 

6F8G works? I have a bunch of those but they’re pairs and I’ll ruin the matching

I agree @CEE TEE i have a Mullard and it’s too smooth for the ZDS which leans on the overly smooth side already.

 

Off the top of my head:

I think the 6C8G is more similar to the 6SL7. You'll need an adapter to get that to work but it'll have less gain than the 6SL7. You can still use the 6F8G but you'll have even less gain. Not sure if that's an issue on that amp but you may have to turn the dial up a bit and especially when using planars.

If you wanted to go with noval tubes, you could buy a 6SL7 --> 12AX7 6v adapter and use a 5751 tube. Same gain in both tubes and it runs on 6.3v.

 

Less gain would be really good actually I’m using it just for my RD-S12 iems and have very little room on the dial.

 

I'm on the lookout for a ZD if anyone happens to have one sitting in closet not getting some use, please let me know. Not as interested in the ZDSE. Thanks!

 

So most of these threads are full of people who love the amps and mostly positive comments. I figured I'd shake things up and maybe lead to some good discussion.

For those of you who like the ZDS, and use headphones that synergize well with it, what do you think are its weaknesses?

I love the ZDS with my RD-S12 (modded S-12 ortho iems). I think everything about it is basically perfect, especially after finding the best 6SL7 tube for me. (I bought a shitload). But I think lacks resolution. I think my RD-S12's could be more resolving. I also wish it had a lower gain setting, I'm at the first tiny bit of the pot, which works because I have t TKD pot in mine but it's a bit scary and touchy. I understand the amp wasn't made for iems though, but rathe high impedance dynamics.

But the tone, the soundstage, the imaging, the tonal balance, it's all wonderful. I just sometimes feel it's a bit dull and could be extracting more information. Or relaying more information.

I get the feeling this amp is more about feeling that tone than detail.

I also LOVE the form factor/look. So much that I want it to be my favorite amp. I love the huge tubes.

I have not tried it with my Audeze's as I don't expect it to sound good.

 

Yeah I didn’t buy it for orthos in general I bought it specifically for my modded S-12 which has sounded magical with OTL amps in the past and I had a hunch. Thing is they don’t need a lot of power they use tiny drivers so the usual patterns for orthos don’t apply. I find them to be very revealing of amps because of this because I’m not hearing power requirements being met or not being met but the sound of the amp in a pretty pure way.

 

So I never did a review of the Moth Zana Deux prototype the last time @Erroneous let me borrow it. I begged him to sell it to me, lol, because it's just that good and is the kind of amp you build a system around. You do that because aside from being absolutely excellent in the technical arena, it has very particular.... needs. As in this sucker is warm, like REALLY warm... and needs a lean source and headphones to not turn into double chocolate fudge brownie overload. So the BF2 I have in house is probably the wrong DAC for it, but the HD600 is a match made in heaven and helps balance things out a bit.

This amp has quite possibly the best microdynamics I've ever heard... not even the my old ZDSE and the ZDS I borrowed seemed to get to the nuanced places this amp does. It's possible Craig got it right the first time here. The considerable nuance gives voices and anything acoustic recorded in a real space this eerie "reach out and touch it" quality. Lots of good amps have this, but this is different in the sense that the images feel alot more "solid", as if sounds are like marble sculptures sitting there on the stage. This is where the Warmth with a capital "W' becomes an asset rather than a liability.... the warmth actually aids in this process... giving images a unique shape, texture and tactility I haven't heard in any other amp. It's a combo that actually makes you understand that the warmth has a purpose.

In addition, the amp has decent to good clarity, and the stage, aside from sounding very solid, is also organized in a realistic fashion... so that the clarity aided by the proper spacing combined with the solidity gives the stage a kind of a realism I am not used to hearing in other amps. It is like a realistic, perfectly laid out proscenium.

While the top end is noticeably rolled, quite a bit of treble detail is still retained... and bass is extremely well extended. Slam dovetails nicely with the microdynamics to present less "wall of impact" slam that I'm used to hearing with certain slamming amps, and more of an impact that seems subterranean in nature. Slam explodes from the low octaves rather than from a generic "everywhere". The macro and micro work together extremely well in this case.

Resolution is very good but is ultimately kind of hampered by the warmth... kind of submerged under everything. This is where the warmth becomes a bit of a liability, but it's really not that bad... you get an extremely good recreation of the real event, and the insane microdynamics is the rising tide that lifts all boats, picking up the slack. It's like the HD650's macrodetail suffering because of it's warmish/darkish tilt.

This amp actually reminds me of the Mjolnir 3. Minus the warmth. It has the same kind of coherent staging, stellar microdynamics, tastefully even handed treble response and thunderous bass. Ultimately I think the MJ3 is better though because it's alot clearer sounding, and allows these qualities to shine more brightly. I always feel I'm listening to technicalities on the Moth under a murky fog.... or maybe a humid steam bath? Whatever metaphor makes more sense.

 

Unlike the other Zane Deuxes, I understand this one uses a 6B4G tube, no wonder the DHT nuances. Am I right in understanding that it is not an OTL and is transformer coupled?

 

Has anyone tried using the ZDS as a preamp?

I've got a First Watt F4, which has no voltage gain and is just a huge Current buffer, so it needs a preamp that provides a lot of voltage. I have a Bottlehead Moreplay preamp, but I currently have no place to put it so was thinking of using the ZDS.

Has anyone compared the preamp outs of the ZDS to a Moreplay or other preamp?

It feels like it might sound really good and be a great match. The ZDS is so resolving and has such great tone. But I don't really understand the difference between dedicated preamps and headphone amps.

 

Hey RD, not sure if you caught this piece from the manual:



If your DAC has a higher voltage out, you probably will be in good shape, assuming your speakers are efficient enough for low current.