General Headphone Advice

First i want to introduce my noob-self. Im a 33y old that pretty much listens to pop and rock mostly, but also some hip-hop and classical music here and there. Im not very keen on strong bass, never was, and i do prefer an enfasis on mids, i have an ok to good tolerance over treble harshness.

I've been thinking of upgrading my HD600 which i really enjoy(i also have a 598 for my PS4 gaming), but my limited experience (and the fact that where im in Europe i dont have anywhere to demo headphones) is making it very hard. My brother who lives in the UK doest have some gear so most of my experience has been in the few times i went there (i cant go there anywhere near in the future so demo there is a no-go this year).

My past sources are:

Modi Uber
Musical Fidelity V90
Musical Fidelity M1
RL Concero

The sources that ive tried:

Bifrost gen1
Matrix X-Sabre
Odac
Creative Recon 3D

My current amps are:

BH Crack w/ speedball
Gustard H10

The amps that ive tried:

Valhalla 2
Magni
Vali
Fiio E9
Matrix Mini i
O2
Lyr

The DAC/AMP combos ive tried:

Dragonfly
Fiio E17
Audio -GD NFB 28 (i think).

Heapdhones i've tried:

Philips X1 (basshead territory so i didnt enjoy it)
AT mx50 (they were ok)
HD600 (the one i currently use)
HD598 (good for gaming, not so much for music imo)
HD650 (i liked but overall i like hd600 more)
HD800 (i felt it was in almost everyway better than my hd600 but the setup was different so...)
HD700 (dont like it one bit, seems to lack the "fun" part of music, but the setup was also different so...)

and other not worth the mention (maybe i shouldnt put the hd700 here cause i really dislike those).

Music: FLAC or Spotify Premium (its free with my plan so i dropped tidal)

What i currently use:

Concero as a USB interface > Yulong D18 > Bottlehead Crack/Gustard H10


Like i said in the beggining i have HD600 and HD598, i already tried HD650 and Audeze 2.2 (dont know if pre or with fazor) that my brother owns, i prefer the HD600 to the HD650 (even more with the crack) and like the Audeze but i wont be bothered to lay down like he does because listening them for a long time is bothersome. I very much love the Yulong D18 but even more i love my brothers X-Sabre (yes actually enjoy the delta-sigma u guys seem to dislike so much ) but i cant to find one in Europe in my price range, so thats something on hold. Amp-wise i dont care much about the Gustard H10, is ok, i like it better than most of SS that ive tried but im thinking of trading it in the future for the Asgaard 2 or at least upgrading with new opamps.

I thought about buying the Beyer T1 (1st gen) cause they are very affordable used right now but people keep addressing the treble problem (more or less the same i found in the HD800 maybe) or the Hifiman 560, but with the information i gave maybe some1 can help me in this regard? I have some1 willing to sell one of these for 500€ and i would like to know if any of them is more likely to fit my preferences or if u have any sugestion (even it costs a little bit more) i would be very grateful.

Hope my English makes sense and you guys can help a noob out.

Thanks

 

Sounds like you've been going to Reddit for shopping ideas -- bad move. All you will get from there is entry level junk. The only hi-fi headphone in that list is the HD800, and that is a challenging headphone to setup correctly. Of the other source chain equipment, the Audio-GD is the best -- and that's one of their lower end models.

All the things you learned about DACs at /r/headphones, flush it down the toilet. The two most important parts of a DAC is the D/A technology used, and the output circuit. You are looking for fully balanced with multiple D/A chips, high quality clocks, separate power supplies for analog and digital circuits, high-end components used in a REAL output stage (audio-grade capacitors, high-end op-amps and/or discrete circuits, etc). IC-based output stages are trash. Basically, if it doesn't have a bunch of capacitors and at least one internal power transformer it's no good. If you are or a budget, stick with one of the common ESS, AK or Wolfson (TI) chip implementations that are balanced and have a real output stage. For example, the Gustard X20. There's plenty to chose from. Oh, and DON'T think you can ignore the DAC -- if you have one of those God-awful mini units hyped on /r/headphones they will drag down any headphones you plug into them. Also, decide if you want native DSD decoding or not; if you do, forget about the Schiit products. If you are going to use USB as an input, consider a USB transport like the Wyrd or Regen.

Headphones. Sorry, I'm only interested in hi-fi, so I won't recommend any mid-fi headphones (ie, HD600, HE-560, Alpha Dogs, TH-X00, K-712, etc). Once you get to the $1000 and beyond range, headphones get REALLY good. The TH-900 is just phenomenal at classical and blues / jazz. Very sweet, micro-detailed instruments. Easy to drive, not quite as microscopic as the HD800 but also much easier to setup correctly. HE-6 is a phenom, basically everyone agrees -- but it MUST be amped correctly, think Ragnarok. I'm looking at a $3000 speaker amp to hook up to mine. These two headphones will beat a T1, but the T1 will still be leagues better than a HD600, and they are easy to drive. Consider the HE-X, HE-1000, LCD-2 and LCD-3 -- all of these headphones are very well regarded in the hi-fi space.

And finally, you can't ignore your cabling. You don't have to spend megabucks, but at least a decent OCC conductor noise-filtering AC cable for the amp. I picked up one for from a Canadian manufacturer, Audio Sensibility, for $280 (OCC cryo-treated) and it was the best $280 I spent on my system. Interconnects make a difference too, but not as major as the AC. Choseal is a Chinese OCC cable manufacturer you can find on aliexpress and ebay for much cheaper, you can try them out but I can't vouch for them.

 

Hey GUTB, still using that nifty Pioneer HT receiver?

 

I thought i wouldnt find that kind of mentality here, like some members on /r or HF where u can find people who say only 4 digits its worth it or in the other end of the spectrum those who say they 25 dollar dac is the best under 500. Sorry @GUTB but for some of the reasons @MoatsArt tsArt stated i cant take u very seriously and no i wont buy 280$ cables.

If any1 else can help even if they think im better just saving up my money i would be thankful.

 

Long story short I would probably recommend this:

1) Get a mint second hand HD800, can be had for 700-800 Euro these days. Look at HF or ebay. Buy with paypal protection.
2) Get on SD's resonator program here on sbaf
3) If you have money to spare get a pure copper HD800 cable from ebay. Should be no more than 100 Euro.

This should be a pretty nice setup with crack amp and D18.

If you're a true midrange freak the HD600 is hard to beat though since this is what the HD600 does, but the HD800 brings in a lot more soundstage, bass extension and tightness. For music it's not a given that everyone will take the HD800 over the HD600, but for gaming I personally think the HD800 is superior.

 

@TwoEars i wasnt expecting people to prefer the HD800 to the T1 like ive seen in both your replies tbh, i havent heard the T1 but in my mind i thought it would be more my thing, probably im wrong, thanks for the advices.

@sorrodje thank you, i really enjoy hd600 with the crack, thats what i use 95% of the time when listening to music. One thing i would like you to analize is that i meant the HE560 not the HE500 model (which i havent heard as well).

A big thanks fo both of you.

 

You already helped a bunch, thanks .

 

Very sage advice right there.
@Walderstorn I had a HD600 too and I did really enjoy it, far more than my HE560 which I had at the same time. (The HE560 had sibilance and was heavy) In the end I upgraded to a HD800 simply because I wanted to own a HD800. This was not a rational decision, or a cash-efficient one. I'm still piecing together the ideal system and it's taking time. And I can tell you that it is costing far more than the HD600 system.

Will the HD800 system be better than a HD600? I haven't experienced it yet, but I trust many people here who seem to think so, that is why I still have a HD800. But the HD600 is absolutely a great headphone to stop at.

 

The HE500 I had sounded great but it was heavy, pretty uncomfortable and the build quality felt so, so. It did sound damn good though. I do think that it had the HD6X0 slightly beat for sound quality. But factor in practicality and I would still pick the HD6X0 to live with. The T1 is for me an inferior version of the HD800, and in that case you might as well have the HD800.

But as others have said the HD800 is a very different beast to the HD6X0. The HD800 is a race car, the HD6X0 is an everyday driver. You can tweak the race car to be your everyday driver and it will be phenomenal, but it will cost more and not everyone will ultimately need or want that level of feedback. I use my HD800 far more than I use my HD650 these days, but if someone stopped at the HD6X0 and called it endgame for them I'd completely understand that.

 

Thank you very much for your input @Eric_C, much appreciated.


@sorrodje actualy that was one of the heaphones i forgot to add, ive tried that model DT800 (and the custom one pro or whatever its called) didnt like it overal, but it was a demo and not my source so i took it with a grain of salt, but if the T1 is related then i guess i better think about the HD800 or just stay where i am like advised.

 

The HD600 suck. Technically, they are a very solid mid-fi set; good resolution, decent dynamics -- recessed vocals which is annoying but no deal-breaker. Obviously they are lacking in hi-fi areas like micro-detail, speed, etc, but in terms of mid-fi they are very solid. What makes them suck is the cardinal sin of being BORING. No one just has a pair of HD600s. I can attest to their lack of euphonics first hand. WHen I had mine, I never felt like reaching for them. I would let them play during break-in on the stand. When you search for the HD600 being boring / flat / lacking life, etc, you will find plenty of those reviews -- but sadly it gets lost in the hype hype train by people who have never heard hi-fi audio once in their life. The HD800 obliterates the HD600 in basically every respect. Just remember that getting the HD800 to be listenable long-term and not sold off once the wow factor fades is a non-marginal task that requires modding and proper equipment choices. With your desire to stick with low budget equipment, you'd be better served by a TH-900; I'm listening to mine right now (I love putting them on as opposed to the HD600) on a $120 solid state DIY custom job from some China eBay seller, and it sounds better than my HE-6 out of a Mjolnir 2 (well I do admit I needed the help of a custom Sabre DAC and that power cable to get there). The same amp simply falls apart and laughs itself silly when I tried to drive the HE-6 off of it.

 

I'm really wishing for the existence of a dislike button right now.

 

^ I don't like the HD600 much. I really like the 650 so far. YMMV. I think the 650 is a great value at circa $300 used.

 

Sorry, I'm not here to feed the hype train. In MY OPINION, as if that needs to be stated, the HD600 is trash. I used to go along with everyone saying that yes they are solid, safe mid-fi choice of headphones. But after trying them for myself for 3 weeks, I sent that garbage right back to Amazon. Whenever a newbie shows up asking questions about it anywhere I can respond to it, I will be sure to educate him. Don't be the sucker that buys a HD600, gets bored of it quickly and gets something else.

If anyone else has a differing opinion, hit the reply and put me in my place. Tell us about how the HD600 is so great that you listen to them constantly, can't put them down, and sold off all your other headphones. Tell us about how your LCD-X, HE-6, Stax, etc, is sitting in the closet gathering dust after you discovered the greatness of the HD600. Tell us about all the meets and conventions you went to where your HD600 were blowing the socks off of everyone.

 

Now I really want a facepalm smiley

Why does someone who hates the HD600 even use the word MICRO-detail in their post? Your love for the TH-900 and the HE-6 makes me even think you don't exactly understand the meaning of micro-detail. Those are some of the most macro-detailed phones in existence!