The HD800 & HD800S thread

So I got to hear my HD800s off a EC 445 today and a Balancing act. I guess I will never die happy.
Guy was using a AMR CD-77 and a Reimyo CD-777 as sources.

Astounding stuff.

 

I have the following setup: Yggdrasil-> Rag - > HD800S

The sound, whilst very resolving and dynamic is coloured with recessed mids (violins) and I still prefer my speakers run by the Rag.

Has anyone tried JRiver parametric equalisation of the HD800S to elevate those recessed mids and other recessed parts of the FR?

If so, what settings were used?
Thanks

 

Completely agree. Violin timbre of the HD800 (and even the HD800S) is just off.

I would try boosting the region from 1-3.5kHz. Maybe something like a 3-4db boost at 2500hz with a Q of 0.6-0.8 would do the trick? The problem is that this would also boost the treble spectrum, so you would probably need at least 2 filters, one for boosting the upper mids and one for lowering the treble. In any case I've never found the HD800 cup weirdness to be fixable with simple EQ, you might want to try the SBAF absorber even with the HD800S. The cork ring mainly boosts the region around 1kHz and might not be so bad with new pads (new pads generally have a worse FR, with even more recessed mids and peakier treble) but with my thinner pads I prefer it without the cork I have (2mm thick). Instead I'm using a thinner felt ring. I need the SBAF absorber.

 

Thanks @Serious.

I tried boosting the 2-3KHz area with a broader Q and it wasn't as effective. Probably used a broad Q thinking it would elevate the surrounding frequencies. I'll try a narrow Q as you suggest.

I have read Tyll's equalisation article using the Harman curve... http://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...es-harman-target-response#67QdSwYZJ257eZJk.97

I will also try to transpose the settings shown on the article's frequency response graph omitting the 6Khz peak reduction as I have the S version.

My main music listening is classical. It is frustrating that I enjoy listening to my speakers or even 'basslight' etymotics HF2s for new records rather than the HD800S due to its colouration. I will try equalisation in order to keep benefitting from the HD800S other technicalities before changing headphone to say an HD6x0.

Those recessed HD800S mids are a huge pain and suck the life of the music I listen to.

 

He suggested quite a wide Q. The higher the Q, the narrower.

 

Aha!

Now that explains some issues I had whilst playing with the parametric equaliser.

Thanks for the advice.

 

@sorrodje

Now that would be a huge step, probably in the right direction but I'll have to restructure all my gear (wife factor alert!).
The WEE from Woo Audio may be powered by the Rag and run a Stax 009 which I could buy used for the same price of a new HD800S.
However looking at the FR of the Stax 009 it is not as flat in the mids .... http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR009.pdf.

I am not as experienced with headphones as many of you (I jumped straight into Yggdrasil, Rag HD800 land). However I know what I want my music to sound like. The HD800S does not present a life-like concert hall frequency response when listening to say a Bruckner symphony.

EQ will hopefully fix this issue for now if I manage to get the right parametric numbers. If Sonarworks have a working HD800S equalisation in the future then that would be a viable solution. The Stax or HD6x0 route may be my long term plan.

 

I don't know if you've heard them, but for classical you might actually like the original T1 or or t90 from beyerdynamic . I find him to have slightly fuller midrange any better presence region then the HD 800s.

 

I feel that the SR009 also sounds unnatural in the mids, just differently so. The SR009 has this emphasis at around 1kHz that makes voices sound really weird to me. I certainly would prefer the HD800 for classical music.
The SR009 does have a more natural transition from upper mids (past the 1kHz bump) to lower treble, which helps with violin timbre.

I really think you should listen for yourself and decide. To me the only headphones that are good enough technically and have acceptable neutrality would be the HD6X0, UERM, HE90 and possibly a modded HE-6 (never heard a modded Abyss, modded HE-6, HE60, SR-Omega or the HE Jade). Heck, even the HD800 can be made to sound quite neutral with the right mods but it will never be at the same level of neutrality as those other headphones.


EQ should in theory work for linearizing the upper mids response of the HD800, I've just not been very successful in finding a preset that worked for me (like @purrin ). Like @zerodeefex I also feel that you lose a lot of what makes the HD800 special and at that point you might be better off using the HD650 instead.

 

Thanks for your valuable advice @Serious. The UERR is on my list to buy in the next few months and the HD600 or HD650 may be added to finish off headphone mania and focus on speakers again.

When I got the HD800S I was amazed how the treble was fixed and I could listen to old classical recordings at length. http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...he-hd800-hd800s-thread.206/page-25#post-28378

Then I went to a concert with a string trio (double bass, viola and violin) playing Bach's Goldberg variations. I purchased the album of the performance recorded in the same setting by the ensemble. I was surprised that my speakers were life-like but the HD800S' violin was subdued and overshadowed by the other instruments....http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...he-hd800-hd800s-thread.206/page-26#post-28815

From then on I was listening to my speakers again reaching to my HD800S late at night but not enjoying highly dynamic orchestral music with it.

Today, I spent the day listening to Bruckner's 5th symphony (Gunter Wand's recordings with NDR and KRS orchestras, Karayan with Berlin Philarmonic Orchestra on DG - 1977). Bruckner's orchestration uses lots of brass instruments that tend to dominate the orchestra in the low mids region. However in real life violins outnumber brass instruments like trombones and trumpets. Moreover conductors tend to balance the sound between the various forces in the orchestra to reflect the score.

Using my speakers and etymotics HF2s, the balance is right (bass light with the etys). With the HD800S the brass instruments are top dogs dominating the landscape. The magic is simply lost.

At the moment I can't sell the HD800S two months after buying them. They replaced my old HD800 that caused too much fatigue to listen to for long periods. I needed a solution.

So I played with JRiver's parametric equalisation. SineGen and other test tones were used as well as JRiver's Analyzer to hear and see any changes made. Bruckner 5th was my reference throughout apart from brief excursions to Beethoven 5th and 6th symphonies (Gardiner) and Mozart's 20th and 23rd piano concertos (Perahia).

I still haven't reached my goal yet.

At present I am getting good results, based on my hearing and Yggdrasil-Rag system, using these settings:

+1dB at 2000Hz 1Q
+1dB at 2500 Hz 1Q
+2dB at 3000 Hz 1Q
+3dB at 3500 Hz 2Q
+2dB at 4000 Hz 4Q

The difference is quite stark. Increasing the 1500 and 1800 Hz by 1dB improved the winds but created problems with the brass, probably as a result of accentuating their 2nd harmonic. I may ditch the 4000 Hz increase but its Q is hopefully narrow enough not to affect the 5.5 peak, and it does add a bit of sparkle.

The end result for now may not be perfect but I don't need to relegate the HD800S to its box like its predecessor.

Bruckner's 5th has one of the most sublime finales in symphonic history. Within the coda the violins create an angelic aura around the brass whilst the thematic material resolves to its tonal key in a stupefying manner. The brass and violins create such synergy, when they are equal in intensity, that the sound emanating from the speakers, and now the equalised HD800S, is truly breathtaking.

I can finally be captivated and thoroughly immerse myself in a piece of music with the HD800S.

 

Update:

Tried the HD800 EQ settings suggested by @TwoEars on his great thread and the result is more enjoyable.... http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/the-hd800-eq-ing-thread.1735/

-3.0db at 200Hz 0.5 Q
-2.0db at 300Hz 0.6Q
-3.0db at 600Hz 1Q
-1.4db at 3600Hz 1.5Q
-3.5db at 5500Hz 50Q
-4db at 10000Hz 1Q

The trumpets are now nicely subdued allowing the freaking violins to be heard!

I might tweak about with the settings to match the HD800S but the result for now is more natural than boosting the upper mids as the post above.

Thanks @TwoEars

 

I was kind of expecting the response to swing around wildly when I changed the position of the headphones on my coupler but it was rather tame. Going for an HD650-ish sound with this but it may be too tilted.

 

2nd Update fwiw:

It looks like EQing the HD800S after so many listens sucked a bit of life and air out of it. Whilst tonality may be flatter, it has less body and the staging is closed off.

I decided to avoid any equalisation for now and enjoy the HD800S as it is. I assume the brain does get used to what is presented and may well adjust to the different tone.

Recordings in which the low mids take over and obfuscate the higher mids, as in Bruckner symphonies, may best be heard with speakers or other headphones.

The HD600 or UERR may be my next option we'll see, but for now the HD800S is still very enjoyable and a good alternative to speakers none the less.

 

Same here. I've done my share of EQ'ing the HD800S to little avail (not that I'm a big fan of EQ anyway). You should enjoy it as it is, or if you're like me, try out the SBAF absorber mod. It surprisingly works quite well on the HD800S, more so than on the HD800 IMO.

 

Can someone clarify this, if you took the resonator out of the 800 S would it sound exactly like the 800 classic?

 

No. Since the second harmonic distortion in bass is not caused by the resonator, afaik.

 

I've been listening to my new HD800S for about a week now out of a Ragnarok and so far I'm loving it

The HD800X comes with a fairly high quality cable but I still wanted to ask if anyone has tried 3rd party cables with the HD800S. Were there any notable SQ improvements? I know cardas clear and black dragon are popular choices to tame the HD800 treble peak and flush out the bass and mids, maybe they can still offer something beneficial to the HD800S as well.

 

Anyone notice how they're almost giving away the regular HD800 second hand? I've seen them for as low as $650 on Ebay without the boxes and around $700-750 with the boxes.

 

The market flooded with used 800's at the time of the HD800S announcement, which was a while ago now. You basically had your pick of used ones for $750-850 at that time (I was shopping then). I would imagine that there are even fewer potential HD800 buyers now, so the continual price drops make sense.

Also, new ones can be found for about a grand, which is pretty good if you value new and figure in the fact that new pads for a used unit are about $100.