Pro audio power amps

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by thegunner100, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    even worst if have nothing but white cats running around lol. their white hair gets everywhere.

    yea. one misconception of horns is your need huge area to take advantage of them which isn't true. horns are more controlled and directional and has much better control on dispersion so they, can even work in modest environments(less room interactions). whole point of horns was control directivity besides allowing a proper acoustical load to the driver to increase it's sensitivity to lower distortion due to less movement needed from the driver. they just seem over powering due to sensitivity. also it's hard finding proper sensitive good woofers to match the sensitivity of horns/compression drivers. 103-105db@1w is big difference compared to typical dome of in low 80's@1w so it can cause bit more issues in certain rooms due to higher sensitivity and on top of that the room itself if not half decent acoustically with proper furniature,bookshelves,treatment,ect. will add another 10-20b gain causing even more issues haha.

    lot of mastering rooms and studios used horns and the avg room was no bigger than avg mediumish bedroom and they got them to work just fine. i used horns in huge 25x25 treated room and even small as 12x12 treated area and every time had good results due to proper room treating. standing waves and reflection points are usually biggest enemies to large dispersion horns. that's why they get bad rep besides improper driver/throat loading and improper crossover points due to difference in cutoff frequency of the horn and actual acoustical load of the horn.

    but, to stay on subject, i haven't gotten around taking my xls 2502 apart yet. it's been very busy past couple days. probably will later and see if actual texas instrument chip is located at. i still think my xls 2502 is great sounding amp and never had issues but, like i said i been using it for year now basically on different speakers and of course my source area of things is not the greatest but, don't consider/think it's bad either since i always enjoyed my echo for years and chosen it over more expensive circuss logic and delta-sigma audio interfaces of that time.

    atleast you can return yours which is great. not sure how it worked there. for working musicians we have options for 90 day trial and choice of monthly payments of all audio and musical equipment of up to 12 months payment plan options so it's kinda cool and allows me get stuff when i need it. always used american music supply and best thing they're in jersey not far from me haha. they always been awesome with me so, i always use them when i need gear. saving up for used macrotech 12000i or xti 6002 for sub duty. was gonna buy a k2 but, people ask way too much for them and they're near impossible or can't get fixed at all if something goes. also i hate the sleep mode function. amp wouldn't work anyways since i'll be pulling under one watt on horns so it'll constently hit energy saving mode which is poop.
     
  2. Armaegis

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    My Yorkville U15's are sort of horn-ish, and my issue with them is the narrow 60° dispersion when trying to use them in a small space. Not bad at all if you're sitting in the sweet spot, but trying to fill a small hall is a bit trickier without getting hot/cold spots. I usually wind up doing a side-by-side in the middle for 120° dispersion, or shove out into the corners and 'X' across the room.
     
  3. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    You see that dog in my profile pic? That's a 40kg Swiss white shepherd which i also call the furmonster during shedding ;)

    I'll keep those horns in mind when the time comes around for speaker upgrades, just bought the ones i have now though so might take a while.

    Well i bought it from Thomann and they offer a 30day money back guarantee no question's asked and they cover return shipping too. And shipping here was free too so i'm not out any money either.
     
  4. Rex Aeterna

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    i believe yorkville used like a hybrid type of horn/wave-guide. it was like different turn of like a mix between conical and CD(consistent directivity) design. peavey went same way with their dark matter powered speakers i believe. not sure. but, yea, even large area that is issues. that's when could try take the room acoustics and people to your advantage. people will be your absorbers depending how skinny or fat they are haha.
     
  5. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

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    can only imagine.

    well, that's good. like said, i never used user the lower end models of the xls before. always went for top model or not at all since my main objective was power and efficiency for sub duty and of course with little reading finding out just that the 2000/2002 and 2500/2502 were much overall better built with better parts but, i was looking at that as a reliability issue on my part due to stress i was gonna put through it. not just sonically. i also never used something as revealing as the Yggdrasil before either. the echo is all i had past 10 years or so lol. i found other amps bit cleaner before in same power range or higher but, the sound is not bad either. it's clean sound with not edgy grain i think and it does give some speakers bit more lower end grunt showing it's not current limiting factor at all so i continue to use it....
     
  6. Armaegis

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    Yeah the U15's have a "unity horn" thingy with three midrange drivers mounted onto the surface of a cone (with a tweeter in the centre). Fantastic clarity... if you're 30 feet downwind.

    What's the secret sauce in the Dark Matter speakers? I think years ago they were pioneering the quadratic throat/waveguide. I've got a pdf somewhere with their design whitepaper which was quite interesting.
     
  7. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Well if you're happy there is no need to go down the rabbit hole :)

    Looks like I will stay in the class-d camp though, got my eye on a Lyngdorf SDAI-2175. Accepts balanced so i can get rid of my preamp and have a much cleaner and simpler setup.
     
  8. Rex Aeterna

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    i have no idea to be honest. i think they took the idea concept from the mantaray design altec did from last time reading bout it i think. i just started studying horns after getting into altec stuff. cause i was mind boggled by the sound so it interest me. i never once studied horns or compression drivers ever. can tell you good amount bout cones,domes,ribbons,planers,amt's and electrostatics but, nothing of horns and compression drivers. compression drivers are very interesting design method and horns are too. still learning a lot though.
     
  9. Rex Aeterna

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    i don't know man. that's kinda hard not to lol. i keep telling myself i'm finish but, end up finding something that is like ''omfg, i must have it! and then,only then, i'm end game! promise!'' i went crazy discovering the new jbl 2269 18'' subwoofer yesterday that is a permanent replacement for the jbl 2242 and 2245h but, it's crazy expensive....cheapest method of ever buying them is the new theater dual 18'' subs for 3k...if not, can get from jbl for 1500 a piece or spend 10k on a revel sub what uses the 2269 frame but, different cone or can buy the new synthesis sub for 15k that uses a 2269h driver haha... the 2269h has a 4'' excursion xmax and 2000w power handling. talk about new sub king in town. seems the 2245h was finally overthrown after 20 something years finally.
     
  10. firev1

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    Not sure if to put it here or make a new thread but recently, I had a Ucd180st with linear psu back at home. For the price of 160usd, the results I got were pretty exceptional, essentially noiseless and had good drive and decent sound.

    Can't really say much of soundstage since my current setup requires some work. Also will eventually be putting a newer ncore based amp to work later this year.
     
  11. Armaegis

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  12. Rex Aeterna

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    very interested design. thing i don't get is mention of faults of compression drivers and sensitivity. i think compression drivers then and now are pretty much same overall. i mean altec an western electric made some of the most efficient compression drivers ever and that was during the 60's and was before horn loading. i don't know though since never used modern compression drivers though. i hear people praise the tad 4001's but, others claim they're really strident and bright and prefer the older jbl diamond treated 2445j's over lot of them. i heard the 2445j's and like them good amount and they were loaded on the huge jbl bi-radial horns since friend kept them out of the jbl theater lot collection and uses them on home built klipsch la scala cabs with loaded ev woofers. sounds pretty good.

    it seems the peavey design is pretty much and improved concept of the conical horn type. it seems like a great design but, seems they're bit restricted for band width loading. i wonder if they have any big 500hz horns. i always liked simple 2-ways with 500hz crossover point from woofer to horn. the foam at the mouth is probably the secret. lot people would do that with horns and found good improvement. i never did it yet but, probably will one day. very interesting read.
     
  13. MrTie

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    The Yorkville Unity designs are from Thomas Danley. He has further developed the Unity horn stuff at his company. Really cool point source stuff. I always wanted to find a deal on a yorkville unity design to hear what the fuss is about.
     
  14. Rex Aeterna

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    very interesting. i heard lot bout him especially the danley subs..i always been told to danley my jbl 2245h sub haha. didn't know he designed horns too. cool to know. learn something new everyday.
     
  15. Armaegis

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    Those Danley creations are truly monstrous in scope. I've never had the pleasure to hear them, but I imagine it'd be literally earthshaking.

    I really like the U15, except for the narrower dispersion. Kinda feels a bit like a QSC K-series in that regard, but less crunchy. I run my U15's using a Behringer DCX2496 as active crossover. They do well in passive mode, but definitely feel smoother in active mode. They seem louder than the specs would suggest too. I used Bryston 2B's to bi-amp which are only 60W/channel and it was more than loud enough for a mid-sized auditorium.
     
  16. Rex Aeterna

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    i always though bought getting the dcx2496 as a dedicated crossover. has all same features pretty much like my crown xti 4002 but, has much more limited frequency point selection i read compared to my crown. the 90hz limit for sub duty is kinda bummer but, should of picked it up anyway for active running 2-ways. running active eliminates the crossover and dampens the driver a lot more due to no inductors and so forth in the way. like amp could have damping factor of 5000 but, once it reaches the passive network it becomes more like 50 or lower. you get better power control too since no longer have inductors and resistors sucking up all the power and dispersing it. usually most speaker failures is from overloading the crossover components. like my 511b/808-8b and 4648 has 1200rms handling but, the jbl 3160 crossovers are only rated for 600w continuous max so anywhere near that it'll heat quickly and compress the signal and at or above it will become wide open sending straight DC into the speakers. that's why active is always 110% recommended for sub duty.

    i like look of danley's horn design subs but, box probably have to be massive(larger than full size double sided fringe) if ever wanted to make a folded horn design for my 2245h. it seems like the perfect candidate as well due to it not being very damp(that's why it's fs is 20hz) and while i consider great, it is on low side of 95db@1w so horn loading will bring it easily above 100+db. one day i will. someone locally is asking 1200 for a danely sub loaded with a 12'' emeince woofer...i think that is very high price to be asking cause i know driver is probably bout 150 at most and can get anywhere and the box materials and make is defiantly not more then maybe 100 something or so....
     
  17. Armaegis

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    I briefly tried the DCX2496 as a dac for headphone stuff (feeding it AES), but I preferred the other gear on my table. I could notice an increase of "grain" if I fed it analog and pumped it back out. Really can't tell when running through the big speakers though.

    As a crossover, I think it's great. Very easy to work with once you get a hang of the interface. I totally agree with you that active crossovers are the way to go. Even before I got into the deep end, I could never understand the squawk behind damping factors when there were always passive components in the way.

    Ever consider building your own cabinets/subs? I've heard lots of good stuff about the Bill Fitzmaurice designs.

    I'd still like to get my hands/ears on a Yorkville Unity sub someday. I'm intrigued by the TX series, but I've never heard them in a situation where they weren't cranked unreasonably high so it was more an earbleed situation that did not allow for any actual sonic impressions.
     
  18. Rex Aeterna

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    i thought bout it defiantly and actually do plan on hopefully during the near end of summer time. been taking care of other stuff lately. i really want to build a sub with a 21'' B&C woofer to try but, probably play around with the woofers i already have around. never heard of Bill Fitzmaurice but, will check him out defiantly.
     
  19. Armaegis

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    There's a local company that makes custom woofers that I've been really curious about. Probably better known as "Mach 5". They've got a decent following here in Canada, though I don't know if anyone will know their name in the US. They've got a 21" here:
    http://www.istonline.ca/mach5_ftw_21.html
    Their "smaller" drivers do seem quite reasonably priced.
     
  20. Rex Aeterna

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    i might look into that. not much more than the b&c driver and has better specs on paper. i like how it is design too. nice look, tough paper cone with a heavy foam surround. FS rating is lot better too it being 21hz. it's like a super large version of the nice EV DL15w subs i have sitting around in the closest in a spare 4648 bass bin. didn't expect much from the ev's but, they were able to reach low and handle large mount of power fine. it came with the jbl lot i picked up from friend over few months ago but, don't know what to do with them yet though. they just been sitting around for good few months doing nothing. might move my chair out of listening room and use it as a butt vibrator lol. it's heavy and strong enough to hold anyone on so...
     

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