Focal Utopia Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. MuppetFace

    MuppetFace Sultana of Seafoam Green - Moderator

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    @Hands
    I'm with you on the treble being a bit too bright. It only started bugging me after a while, and it's why I'm still unsure as to whether I want to keep these around or not.
     
  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The treble did bother me after a while as well.

    I agree it's not as bad as the HD800s. But it's not the tuning I like. It can be a little weird sometimes too IMO. It did gave me a good first impression though.
     
  3. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    Could it be the beryllium/metal coloration ? HD6x0s do use drivers made out of plastic after all. Maybe it's like the steel/nylon guitar string thing? Just speculating. Some members have mentioned Elear having the characteristic of being warm yet fatiguing at the same time.
     
  4. paranoidroid

    paranoidroid Friend

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    I'm in the 'bit too bright' camp. It doesn't look like it's possible to source Elear pads yet, otherwise I'd have ordered them already.
     
  5. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Tough to say if it's the driver material in any sort of definitive manner. I'd have to play around with them at home for a while to get a better clue. I do think I prefer the stock Utopia to stock Elear, and for the latter, pads made a big (and positive, IMO) difference.

    For amp pairings, I think anything that works well with both the 6X0s and 800s will serve the Focals well and give little fuss.
     
  6. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    Anything that works well with 800s will work well with 99.9999% headphones (HE-6 :()
     
  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Got the loaner Utopia in. I don't find these quite as bright as I did at the recent mini-meet, but the Super 7 is not tuned as neutral as the Studio I used it with either. Could also be the mesh tubes in the Studio...not sure. It sounded brighter and rougher than I remember with the RCA tubes. Anyway, quick impressions with my home setup:

    Pros:

    - Bass is great! Very, very slightly bumped in an incredibly tasteful manner.
    - Mids also good. Not as silky smooth as the HD650 but pretty damn good. Starts to get hot and weird in the upper-mids, but serviceable.
    - Very fast, clean, clear, dynamic, and so on. The dynamic, clean nature coupled with the slight bass bump is awesome.
    - Staging is laid out more in front of you than the HD650, which is an improvement, but otherwise is about on par or slightly improved at best in most other areas. I think it strikes a nice balance. No complaints.
    - Excellent resolution.

    Cons:

    - Still what I would call a somewhat bright headphone if looking at it from a holistic viewpoint. Something about it reminds me of a less bright, less annoying HD800...
    - To clarify the above a bit, it's not lean sounding like the HD800. It sounds well extended, full, and powerful. But I would say I find it tilting towards a bright sound signature, rather than neutral or dark.
    - Has a noticeably rough and raw timbre to it. Crunchy sounding. I don't want to understate this, because I really think this makes the headphone very fatiguing to listen to. It almost ruins it all for me. Almost...
    - It's not as bright and rough as the Ether (original, open) or HE1000, but both of those seem to have more of a bass emphasis that counter balances their brightness somewhat. So, in a way, the Utopia stands out a bit more with brightness, and in some ways it doesn't.

    Given I heard these at the meet and had some time to listen today, I was pretty eager to get some quick measurements. Sometime soon I will do more comprehensive measurements, including averages at varying positions. Just grabbed a quick FR of the left channel.

    Focal Utopia Left FR Quick.png

    Well...that explains what I hear. That 4KHz spot is what kills me, and it's not helped with some of the other bumps and wiggles.

    I'm sure some music makes any issues non-evident, or tolerable at worst, but I prefer headphones that make everything sound good because they do little wrong, especially in the upper registers. The Utopia has a couple standout issues, but less so than the HD800. I'm also much less forgiving at $4K.

    This is also an in-ear measurement, and as @Serious pointed out, some individuals are bound to have heads and ears that wouldn't show such a strong 4KHz peak.
     
  8. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    @Hands - In ear measuring sounds much easier than constructing a measurement rig, no? I'd be curious to give it a go - what devices do you recommend for in ear mics? Basically you're showing a ~ +3dB peak at 4k, and fairly broad. I wonder if different ears or heads yield different measurements. Either way, personally, I don't think I'd find this objectionable through my rig. Certainly didn't for a short time with @brencho 's Utopes through the T3, which is a bit sharper.
     
  9. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Time for some really quick pad rolling and one front damping measurement! (Note, none of these pads or front damping discs were adhered in any way, save for the Elear pads, which of course you can pop into place. The other pads were comfortably held in place by my fat head and thus results are not going to be 100% accurate compared to if they were adhered...but, eh, close enough).

    What happens when you put some 1/4", open-cell, charcoal foam over the driver? Even though this was essentially floating over the drivers and held in place with my ears, nor was all of the driver covered...well, some of the problem areas get smoothed out a bit. These are much more listenable like this alone.

    Utopia with Front Damping.png


    Stock Utopia vs my modded Elear (w/ ZMF Oval Protein pads + 1/4" open cell damping over driver - still a WIP, treble spike not too evident in listening but could be better. Not saying this is the ultimate Elear config, but it's what I had on hand to measure real quick. It might be slightly too dark for me actually. I think I prefer HM5 angled pleathers, but didn't save my measurements of that):

    Utopia vs Elear ZMF Oval Protein and Front Damping.png


    Utopia with HM5 Hybrid pads...yuck.

    Utopia with HM5 Hybrid.png


    Utopia with HM5 Velour pads. Also yuck.

    Utopia with HM5 Velour.png


    Utopia with HM5 angled pleather pads. No thanks.

    Utopia with HM5 Angled Pleather.png


    With Alpha Pads! Just threw up in my mouth!

    Utopia with Alpha Pads.png


    With Elear pads! Eh...

    Utopia with Elear Pads.png


    Conclusion: The Utopia does NOT respond positively to pad rolling like the Elear does. It also would appear the stock pads have some magic voodoo going on with them that keeps bass levels in check. (Seriously, WTF?) Keep the stock pads! If you find the Utopias too bright, find ways to get a disc of felt, fabric, or foam over the driver (and JUST the driver, not the mesh next to it). You may sacrifice a bit of resolution and dynamics, but you could end up with an incredibly neutral sounding headphone that still bests the Sennheisers in most regards.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  10. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    WM61a, an authentic one at that, glued into a tri-flange tip. Needs to sit VERY snug and perfectly sealed flush with the opening of your ear canal.

    I use a custom PSU for the mic that BMF over at Head-Fi made for me. That feeds into a Creative SB1240, mic input.

    The way I hear it, it's better to look at that 90dB-ish line, which would mean the 4KHz peak is around 5dB. That's a lot. Just like you can hear a tiny bit of extra bass relative to 90dB subjectively, but one could argue a tiny bass boost is preferable with headphones (none of this Olive/Welti booming bass nonsense). (And, yeah, OK, even looking at it from this standpoint isn't quite right...somewhere between that and what you said. Some albums make it non-evident, but reviewing it like that would be saying a mid-range graphics card is fantastic because you only tested it with Half Life 1. Ok, exaggerating there too for the sake of making a point.)
     
  11. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Pro tip: find a pair of stock HD600/650 ear pads, then cut the rear plasticky part so that you can collapse them into a circular shape, then use double-sided tapes to attach to Utopia.

    You may wonder if... I have tried that?

    Well, let's just call it a hunch for now. :p
     
  12. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    @Hands thanks for these measurements. For comparison, here's a link to mine (for those who haven't seen them):
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...al-utopia-measurements.2670/page-2#post-81598
    Interesting that you get more of a 4kHz peak, while I got more of a 4-6kHz peak. Actually the whole shape looks a bit different for you with peaks and dips generally shifted lower in frequency. 1kHz bump and 1.5kHz dip instead of 1.5kHz and 2kHz. Bass looks similar but with much better extension. Maybe I have to recalibrate my microphone for more bass extension? Then again planars generally look flat on my rig, so it should be accurate. I don't think the Utopia is quite as extended as a planar.
    Keep in mind that I think the huge 6-9kHz dip is a measurement artifact. I generally like to look at the coupler measurements for 5-6kHz and above.

    The Elear measurements look very good. I really have to hear that special sauce Elear at some point.

    EDIT: Again, I think it's interesting that you get less 5-6kHz than my measurements, while you get much more 5-6kHz energy with the HD650 and possibly also the HD800. I guess different headphones do interact differently with different heads.
     
  13. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Hands, I know it’s difficult to quantify these things but if the Utopia is at 100% what percentage of this performance does a modded HD650 reach in your estimation considering a synergistic amp pairing?

    In terms of resolution how much better are the Utopias?

    Thanks!
     
  14. Hands

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    Quick update, I can say that the longer you wear the Utopias, the more the pads warm up and compress, with gives for a slightly smoother and integrated sound. It's still a bit much for me, but it does help. The Utopias are surprisingly easy to acclimate to over time as well, once you get past some initial fatigue, which usually is the opposite for me.

    Yeah, probably just different heads, ears, probably even hair causing measured differences on the Utopia. Or how we wear them. Or the alignment of the planets that day. I doubt it's product variation. For all I know, I'll re-measure them over the next couple days and get widly different results. The Elear pulls that shit on me.

    I probably have the perfect head and ears to get such great bass extension in my measurements. ;) Haha, really though, not sure. Could be differences in mics. I would recommend double checking all your hardware to make sure you didn't miss any bass roll-off to compensate for. The Utopia to me sounds fuller, more dynamic, and better extended in the bass than almost any planar I've heard.

    Severe dips in the treble are either artifacts or very particular interactions with my ears, the sorts that go largely unnoticed during listening tests. You can hear them in sweeps, often, but not so much music. I think this is an area where the CSDs fill in after the peak as well.

    The Elear stuff I threw in for comparison was just the flavor I had running at the time. I've been flip flopping between two different pads and think I prefer the HM5 angled pleather. They measure similarly as above, just a bit less rolled and less peaky around 8-10KHz. The ZMF pads are a bit dark and soft in comparison. But goes to show the Elear has lots of potential. Utopia is best left with stock pads.

    Well, it's not quite that simple. The HD650s are always going to have a cohesive, smooth, natural sound. The fact it's also a resolving headphone and only really suffers with bass quality (good, not great) and staging (good, not great) is icing on the cake...a very competitive, $300-ish, heaving hitting cake.

    Some might also find the Utopia too bright, to the point they might not be able to happily listen like they would with the HD650. At that point, do extra technicalities outweigh that? Depends.

    But ignoring tonal balance and the like, you could probably roughly equate the performance jump from the HD650 to Utopia to that of a modded HD800. I don't know what that would be...I hate giving percentages like this, so I wont! ;)

    The HD650 still has really great resolving abilities relative to a lot of headphones. The Utopia, HD800, modded Elear, etc. are like finally having all the pieces together from the HD650 and then dialing in the focus so that everything sounds sharper, clearer, better defined, faster, etc. Less softness and blur around the edges. It's a nice step up, and hard to go back, even if the asking price is steep. (Again, for those that can't afford the Utopia, don't rule out a modded HD800 or modded Elear.)
     
  15. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Thanks! I wouldn't ask questions like this normally but these are difficult to demo even in London. I've only heard them in noisy meet conditions.....
     
  16. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    I got mine yesterday thks to @velvetx . Seems positionning of the cups around the ear matters significantly :) . worth to try different headband settings in my humble opinion.
     
  17. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    @Hands Agree on the slight brightness and the HD 650 comparisons. 1khz honk and then the upper-mid forwardness were annoying as hell. I just can't deal with it and would rather just listen on the HD 650 despite the technical improvements. The Utopia was listenable to me though, unlike the HD 800.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  18. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    I wonder if there is a mismatch with the Utopia and the Studio. That amp was tuned to the 600s (650s) and can sound lean or thin with others. I also wonder about people doing comparisons on a Schiit stack, which also may not pair as well. Mind you my only experience was with at T3 and I didn't have these kind of problems, though I only tested for a little bit. I wonder how many of the bright and lean issues can be attributed to matching with a bad amp fit vs. the nature of the headphone.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I prefer the Utopia on ZDS rather than Studio or my custom 45 (which sounds similar to Studio, but slightly warmer and more aggressive at same time). I don't think the Utopia does good on neutral amps as I thought it was like an less annoying modded HD800 on the Mcintosh headamp I heard at SourceAV, which also tends more neutral / lean (but it happened to be the most technically proficient amp there.) I do think we can make it work on neutral amps, like with a SFD or Moth DAC that used the old UltraAnalog chips.

    As far as FR. I'll just write a computer program that analyzes all future measurements and sends out an HPS Alert (Hands / Psalm / Serious alert) whenever it deviates more than 3db from their individual curves. I know Hands has more tolerance for warmfag than Psalm, etc.
     
  20. brencho

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    agreed! i've been using brimar and valvo tubes in the modded T3 amp and i haven't gotten fatigued by brightness or leanness. other tubes that were ideal with the 650 like 12AZ7 and other amperex tubes got to be a bit too aggro with the utopia. i also tend to not like bright and lean sounding stuff. the modded 800 sounded brighter and more problematic out of the modded T3 than does the utopia. still, would be interesting to line up a bunch of amps and get to plug away with the utopia to see what works best. would love to hear ZDS again.
     

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