Marvey's DAC Chart of Awesomeness

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by The Alchemist, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. Rozenberg

    Rozenberg Acquaintance

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    Hmm right, the guy mentioned there's a bit of humming too coming from the transformer or something. He said it wasn't really noticeable during music playback tho.

    Well, my plan was to upgrade to Multibit but shit happened so I'll need the fund to cover my loss which means spending more on DAC is out of question :|
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    1. Not all DACs were fully electrically tested. I'm not sure what you mean exactly. I did measure FR, impulse response, distortion for a few; but not all of them. It's very difficult and extremely time consuming to run even a basic suite of measurements for DACs. I didn't really get measurement gear good enough to measure DACs (most modern DACs perform exceptionally well) until recently.
    2. Two different support stands and two different systems were used. Obviously it's impossible for me to compare all of these DACs at the same time. My process was to compare a batch at a time, cycling in newer DACs I hadn't heard yet while keeping in two or three others where I was familiar with the sound for reference. This sort of gave me an overall relative picture of one DAC to the next.
    3. They were all on the same AC with the exception of the last several DACs toward the end (Yggdrasil, Theta, SF, etc.) when I moved to an older home in Calabasas, which had arguably crappier AC quality (measured with more noise) with the lines from telephone poles in the back yard. The DACs toward the end happened to be the ones I liked the most (not surprising because it was an evolutionary process where I was finding what I liked.) Maybe the crappier power in Calabasas made them sound better.
    4. The same interconnects and USB cables were used. Power cords used were stock provided by the manufacturer. No additional tweaks were used such as ball bearings, special feet, magical rocks. On occasion, I've been known to use cinder blocks for massloading, but I didn't do any of this to keep things simple.
    In addition, I implemented a crucial procedure that you did not mention: I turned on the DACs and left them on for two to three days before evaluation. There certainly are minor differences with tweaks, but I didn't find relative differences between the DACs, even on different systems, to change. No single DAC was ever evaluated by itself. There was always a group of others for direct relative comparison.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  3. ak2angel

    ak2angel Acquaintance

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    Yes, I mean the Basic I, the Basic II also has the same inputs method, accepting only SPDIF coaxial. Only the much later Basic III and IIIa has optical and AES input.

    According to Theta website, the Basic II is practically the predecessor of the DSPro Gen III, with a less advanced digital section and nearly identical analog topology. Having heard the Gen III myself, I think that while it is certainly good, the Gungnir Multibit beats it most situation. Gungnir Multibit offers a smoother response and superior midrange (for me the Gen III exhibits some op-amp "glare" in the high-mid, lower-treble region, which was quite problematic with some pairing). The only time when I'd take the Gen III is to get the last bit of that unique "Moffat Bass", blazingly fast but still has incredible impact and depth.

    I agree with @Kamikazi , I'd rather upgrade to the Gungnir Multibit and be done with it. Vintage dacs are nice but you would need to know what you are diving into, otherwise they would become quite a hassle in both usage and maintenance.
     
  4. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    You can always "downgrade" to a Modi MB. Here people are disturbingly gaga over it, and it comes at half the price of the Gungnir MB upgrade...
     
  5. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    Modi Multibit is amazeballs. It gives you a taste of what their more expensive DACs offer at a fraction of the price. I think the biggest thing is you still get the closed form filter that's proprietary to Schiit.
     
  6. Rozenberg

    Rozenberg Acquaintance

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    Weirdly enough, I found a Basic II with AES input.

    Sure would be happy to send in for upgrade... After everything's sorted out... Kinda out of question now.

    Could try buying one from Schiit EU and return if I don't feel that much different. Gotta read their return policy first though.
     
  7. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    No you don't. It's your legal right to return it, in Europe. They don't get to second-guess that with "policy".
     
  8. ak2angel

    ak2angel Acquaintance

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    AES is practically a balanced SPDIF with higher impedance rating though, and given that the Basic II is the first "real" balanced Theta DAC, I'm not surprised that yours has it. Still, that one is quite rare TBH, as not all Basic IIs are equipped with balanced outputs (they cost more), let alone AES input.
     
  9. Rozenberg

    Rozenberg Acquaintance

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    The word "quite rare" is pretty tempting, but for 375€, not sure if it's a good price since I've seen a Basic III with no AES for 250€.
    Also it's got AES in but no XLR outs.
     
  10. haywood

    haywood Friend

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    The age and likelihood of maintenance are definitely the thing to keep in mind with vintage electronics. You don't want to spend more than you would for a comparable new device. When Marv first started talking about this on HF (http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/tho...da-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff) the price was considerably cheaper than they ended up because of the thread hype.

    Here's a list of the Theta legacy equipment, the PCM 63 based dacs are preferable but all have merit at the right price. (http://thetadigital.com/legacy_products.shtml#ds_pro_generation_v_and_progeny)
     
  11. gaddabout

    gaddabout New

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    I'm running the new Gustard X20 Pro with double ES9028pro chips. Never heard such a good dac. Its detailed, wide, warm, analog....simply breathtaking sound.
    This DAC reveals good and bad recordings in a breath. I'm not hearing any "fake detail":) I'm hearing detail other dacs were not able to offer. Its a joy now to listen to old recordings. I have had the violectric v800, Mytek Brooklyn, Mytek 192, a few other chines DACs like the LKS DA003. The Gustard X20pro is the first DAc I own,
    that opens digital to a whole world of new 3d level. Considering the price ...best buck.
     
  12. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Le snort, you most atone for your sins, by listening to some horrible etchy Chifi SABRE crap. Mortification of the ears is the only way to save your immortal soul. Do it, or be forever damned.

    (Seriously, it would be useful to have a clear but diplomatic thing to point cloth-eared randos at. The randothusiasm for both Gustard and AudioGD stuff makes it quite hard to remain as polite as I'd like, sometimes. Better you do it than we throw the poor bastards to @Psalmanazar.)
     
  13. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    This:
    Goes a long way to explaining this:
    But if you enjoy it then ... well ... just enjoy it.

    Personally, I doubt the changes in ESS' "Pro" line (which are mostly about making their chips easier and cheaper to implement, while using less power, rather than any purported improvements in sound quality) will change the fundamental nature of what I heard in the X20. I will say it could be favorably compared to the Mytek 192. But that's a bit like saying I'd rather have salt in my eyes than vinegar.
     
  14. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    On the bright side, the randothusiasm* for these things means they seemingly can't help but self-identify** with their ownership and high-praise for them, which makes it comparatively easy to keep tabs on and therefore treat any further impressions they might offer with a suitable degree of skepticism.

    I wouldn't argue with that ... but I would argue with this ...

    ... at least if it means I can keep my ears Gustard-free! ;)

    Seriously, though, the real challenge with properly reviewing stuff like the X20 (Pro or otherwise) comes from getting hold of one that a) hasn't been "modified" in various unsavory ways or b) you can actually send back. They only seem to be sold via avenues that have no option for an audition rendering any purchase a "now you're stuck with it unless you persuade some other poor, hapless, bleeda to buy it". Not this is in anyway surprising ...

    --

    *This should be "a thing".
    **AKA "out themselves".
     
  15. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Aye, somehow I doubt that's entirely accidental...

    ..and yes, there are a few people who rocked up here, all pushy excitement over AudioGD, Gustard, Beyerdynamic and Violectric, bristling with links to "we love everything" shill sites, whose opinions and urges I regard as deeply suspicious, if not outright toxic. Here be dragons.
     
  16. Sanlitun

    Sanlitun Acquaintance

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    I have an X-Sabre here and I don't hate it and will now and then get it out of the closet. It does have an issue with a grainy faux warmth that I have never liked but price considered it was in it's time a decent DAC. Now that the whole 9018 craze has passed I am looking at it with a cooler head.

    I'm pretty curious about the new ES9038 units coming out now and how they may have improved. The new X-Sabre Pro is 9038 but it is silly expensive.

    What I want is a new DAC that is going to provide a new take on what I have been listening to, but that may be unrealistic.
     
  17. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    [​IMG]

    Psalm is on the right.
     
  18. TRex

    TRex Almost "Made"

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    As ferocious as @Psalmanazar can be, I actually agree with most of his points. For example, Jot treble. It might be one of the best value amps, but Jot doesn't help at all, even emphasize the issue with badly-mastered albums and some (hard) rock music. The recent Ed Sheeran album is unbearable on Jot+HD650.
     
  19. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    The chain may be the least of your worries there ;)
     
  20. TRex

    TRex Almost "Made"

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    @Kattefjaes I know right... I wish I had influence as powerful as David Foster. Until then, gotta compensate with the chain. *shrug*
     

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