Maximum Impact?!

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by themystical, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. themystical

    themystical New

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    It looks like Harman does some really good audio research and this article is really interesting. Apparently Harman have an App which allows a pair of headphones to be emulated to 85% closeness - whatever that means. Anybody know how to get this app?
     
  2. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    I actually think this thought exercise is more interesting than the originally stated purpose of the thread. As I was reading this I didn't think, "oh shit, here comes science again," I thought, "of course they wouldn't sound the same even if they were EQ'd to have matching FR!" And then I started to comb through, in my mind, the reproductive characteristics of my most-listened-to transducers, and what about them transcends simple frequency response.

    I could imagine how the now 'matching' transducers* would be palpably different, but have a hard time reducing it to words. Still, knowing how they would be different (impact or dynamism, for one, as well as decay, transient response, among others) made me feel a little less insane about the whole headphone fetish. This might not make much sense, but it was actually an interesting and rewarding thought exercise to try and imagine how a headphone sounds while filtering out the frequency response as much as possible. I can't say I was/am entirely successful, but it was/is an interesting way to stretch my brain.



    *(as a thought exercise I am putting aside the fact that many transducers deviate from one another too much to be brought into unison by equalization)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  3. k1arg

    k1arg Facebook Friend

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    It's not perfect, but it's interesting to try taking two quite capable headphones and comparing them using sonarworks calibated to the target curve of your choice. I've done this with several headphones, and no way do they sound the same. But the ways in which the sound signature change are interestingly different from the differences when comparing them unequalized. Perhaps people with a lot of critical listening experience can pick out the non-FR differences reliably without equalization, but for me it makes many differences stand out much more clearly.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yup. I sometimes secretly EQ headphones to a reference curve when trying to make a determination of what slams more than the other or what sounds clearer than the other.

    FR has a huge influence for certain sonic traits. But nothing comes for free.
     
  5. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    Nothing does come free and also there is no such thing as a free lunch. There will always be a sacrifice or tradeoff when you change/fix some part of the frequency with EQ or whatever. It comes down to what your preferences are and what sounds enjoyable to you with your own music.
     
  6. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I find it puts things on an even footing, and allows me to hone in on specific attributes without distraction. Once you start doing it you find that there’s a good deal of difference from one headphone to another besides tonality. Outside of this place discussions much more often than not come down to tonality, it’s such a shit-show with headphones that many seem to never see much beyond it.

    The character and technical performance of the HD650 changes quite a bit with the front and rear foam completely removed vs stock or SBAF mods. Their speed and soundstage improve. They become a bit bass lean and bright, but also raw up top, less tactile, and less impactful. EQ improves the former, but doesn’t do much for the latter.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  7. themystical

    themystical New

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    Believe it or not Sonarworks make this bold claim on their site!

    "So you’re saying that every headphone, when corrected with Sonarworks, will sound the same?
    Yes, that is our claim given that the same reference target is set for both headphones. This is of course subject to small differences imposed by the physical limits of the headphone and differences in headphone THD profiles."

    They seem to be ignoring some big elephants?
     
  8. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    Never trust anyone trying to sell you something ;)
     
  9. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    Not really. By all accounts, sonarworks is legit. Hell, any good EQ can be very legit. I bought a cheap little behringer miniFBQ for playing with my HE560 when I had one, and even that is pretty useful despite having only 9 bands of graphic (not parametric) eq. Of course, you have immediate tradeoffs from putting something in between the source and the transducer, which comes with varying degrees of transparency. Apologies that I was less explicit about this in my earlier post, written while still coming out of the haze of thought experimenting. I'm didn't mean to imply that EQ could never make headphones sound the same, more that the thought experiment was cool, and reminded me what we are listening for at the edges of technicality as headphones advance (or don't).

    The differences are NOT elephantine in nature, they are subtle, but go a long way in helping to prove (at least to me) that there are aspects of headphone sound reproduction that transcend just frequency response. Sonarworks acknowledge this much in their comment about "small differences imposed by the physical limits of the headphone and differences in THD profiles." That is the shit that is most interesting to me about transducer selection.

    The most salient, recent, personal example I can think of is the Elear, which is very technically capable. The dynamics on that headphone are amazing and for me it painted an image in my brain on the level of the HD800. However, the mids are sucked out terribly. When I added a certain neat little truck-balls looking inline adapter the mids were back, and holy shit were those some fun headphones. This is a great example of the power of equalizing, especially since the other technical aspects were still obvious, even after the mids were fixed. (By contrast, putting the truck-ballz inline with my HD650 made me step back and say "gah! They've been grado'd!")
     
  10. k1arg

    k1arg Facebook Friend

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    It may also be worth keeping in mind that sonarworks seems to be primarily for mixing/mastering engineers. The "small differences" between headphones that are important to us here may not be that relevant to a tool for those jobs.

    Also, perhaps I was naive, but playing around with several parametric eq plugins has made me realize that there is a significant difference between them. The difference between plugins in the degrees they "mess with" frequencies that are not being adjusted surprised me. So if anyone is playing around, don't assume that if some cheapo eq messes things up badly, that e.g. DMG EQuick will too.
     
  11. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    I'm curious, which Chinese amp is that?
     
  12. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I've tried every free software Parametric EQ I could get my hands on, all but one of them were awful. TDR Nova being the only decent plugin, though the free version limits you to 4 Parametric EQ adjustments plus high and low pass filters:
    http://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-nova/
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  13. themystical

    themystical New

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    It looks like this:
    http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Music-Angel...-Integrated-Tube-Amplifier-UKBK-/310818350989
    But I am not sure whether the design is the same as I bought mine about 10 years ago go for £80 and has been modded too with better DC blocking/ coupling capacitors and better valves.
    As a general comment, the correlation between audio performance and price is rarely consistent. It's all to do with marketing, visual design and positioning imho.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  14. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Will double impact do?

    [​IMG]

    P.S. This thread is begging for more puns.
     
  15. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    At the risk of admonishment, if only to help us grasp these characteristics. I think we actually need Lorenzo to help us deliver the

    [​IMG]

    (EDIT: I should have photoshopped some TH900s on to 'im)
    (EDIT 2: Fixed)
    (EDIT 3: To scale)
    (EDIT 4: These are very serious edits)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  16. themystical

    themystical New

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    I just this week bought the Elears and female vocals don't have this crystalline nature that all my other headphones have - I guess this is due to the combines of slightly recessed mids and highs?
    Have you got a link to these truck-balls adapters?
    I am slightly confused with what you are saying? If headphones could be made to sound the same, why isn't everybody buying a pair of £200 technically excellent headphones with say £100 of signal processing to get the Orpheus in their listening rig with only a slight compromise in transparency?
     
  17. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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  18. k1arg

    k1arg Facebook Friend

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    I have been listening to TDR Nova, and I agree that it sounds a lot better than any of the free/cheap plugins I have heard. That said, I still think that I prefer DMG EQuick, in the sense that Nova affects the non-adjusted frequencies more. The most apparent difference to me is that Nova seems to slightly soften transients, and so things like gentle cymbal work don't sound quite right to me, a bit softer/blurred/recessed. Has anyone else noticed something similar?
     
  19. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    I was about to stop taking this thread seriously, but those last two edits have turned me around. You're lucky ... this time.
     
  20. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I've yet to actually do any direct comparisons, or try DMG's EQ. But my general impression is that adjustments with TDR Nova aren't as effective or transparent as my Behringer DEQ2496 hardware digital parametric equaliser.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017

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