Mr. Speakers AEON

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by mscott58, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    That sounds like a decent hypothesis, I did try to cajole the pads around a bit but maybe not quite the right way.
     
  2. Resolve

    Resolve MOT: Headphones.com

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    I'm also experiencing channel imbalance on them, and while the pads may be the culprit, another thing to consider is the cable. There is a VERY noticeable channel imbalance sometimes, then I move the cable around and it's fine. I'd switch the cable around and the other side would be slightly louder, then fine. Interestingly, this is the second pair I've had where I notice it. So then maybe again it is the pads, or there's a more serious issue. For reference, none of my other headphones have a channel imbalance, so it's not my chain/ears.
     
  3. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    How are you guys measuring this channel in balance? Is this by ear or with an actual measurement? Just curious.
     
  4. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    I noticed it first by ear but then confirmed via measurements. Unfortunately I didn't save the measurements as they were just sort of a quick sanity check.
     
  5. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    And it turned out that you're sane, right? :D
     
  6. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    If it were pad deformations, that would affect measurements as well. The Aeons are really tough to measure because of how sensitive they are to a perfect seal.
     
  7. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    Yes the measurements showed an imbalance.

    Exactly and especially because they were not done with lots of care I think this is likely the case. It is the only thing that makes sense especially because @Hands says they do not have this discrepancy.

    The way I compensated for this during my listening was by playing music closing my eyes and moving a L/R balance slider until the sound was centered. I did not end up with the same balance adjustment every time.

    The only thing that seems odd is that the balance was off in the mids but not the bass which doesn't seem quite right for a sealing issue but I'll believe that it could be the case.
     
  8. Larry Megugorac

    Larry Megugorac Craps on Filipino accents to ease inner poverty

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    I just picked up a pair of AFC's that I really enjoy for closed HP's. I am closing in on the 100 hours burn in that Dan recommends...The bass keeps getting smoother and love how it exposes the plankton I hear on songs that contain such musical information. A great Jazz cut to check out Plankton is 'All I see Is You' by Dave Koz....On Dave Koz's Greatest Hits...

    The sound quality of his Sax, the guitar's, the drum lines really show off what either your 'Phones or your Speakers can do.

    Having got these at the So Cal Can Jam weekend before last, there was not a 3X difference between the AFC's and the new HD 820's.
     
  9. iPAINTCODE

    iPAINTCODE New

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    I have a pair of AFC's and do like them a lot for specific genre's and of course for closed-backed to keep the music inside. However, I had to send in the first pair due to one of the pads foam going sideways. Now the replacement pair is having the same issue with the other side, and Mr. Speakers has a YouTube video how to fix them, the only problem, it only lasts for a day or so.

    When this 2nd pair started to have the pad issue, I noticed a slight imbalance in the sound, doing the temp fix trying to shift the foam back into place and it sounds excellent; till next time. I noticed Mr. Speakers just started selling Aeon Flow pads and I'm a little iffy to buy a pair only to have the same issue; maybe thicken up the pad walls. In case the video wasn't linked:

     
  10. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    The foam in one of my pads rolls a bit on my AFO. I smooth it out after every listen and haven't noticed any sound issues. I don't think there would be unless it's causing the seal to break.
     
  11. Conor Brennan

    Conor Brennan New

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    Review; Originally posted to Reddit's Headphone Sub. Some refinement, rethinking and reformatting done before posting here.

    Mr. Speakers AFC
    Hey guys!
    I've had these headphones for over a month now and new toy syndrome has well worn off. As such, I figure I should post some impressions for those considering buying!
    ____________________________________________________

    #Preferences and considerations

    I started this hobby with a Etymotic HF5, and have continued to buy relatively neutral headphones all along. The most colored headphones I have are probably my Grado SR325e's, and they're just bright. So I tend to lean *ever so slightly* to liking bright cans. That being said, my Hifiman HE560's get the most usage. They're just a perfect balance for most of what I listen to- Prog rock and some percussion ensemble. That being said, lately I've got even more into classical music and percussion ensemble, and I wanted something a little less bright. I am also going to college next year, so I needed something closed back so I don't get pissed every time someone makes a noise. So the AFC was the logical choice for me.
    I also play percussion, so I tend to be very specific about the natural sound of percussion instruments, which most bassy headphones do not do well. I also understand how painful high frequencies can be (see the glockenspiel, which I have a testing track for- Ringer, by Ben Reimer). I play it, and I know what all the timbre sounds like so I feel that this is the best way for me to test them, even if you, dear readers, don't fully understand why or how I listen to this avant garde nonsense :)

    My headphone inventory consists of:
    Hifiman HE560, Mr. Speakers AFC, Grado SR325e, Mee Pinnacle PX, Etymotic HF5. So you might say I tend to like neutral/neutral bright headphones. I would agree.

    I am using the Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid x Grace Design SDAC for my amp/dac. It colors the sound ever so warm, but I will also try them with the amp only mode on my Fulla 2 if y'all want me to. All sound impressions will be done on the CTH+SDAC. I don't think it significantly colors the sound and the review will be consistent, so it will only be warm relative to the base state of the headphone (or, without any tuning pads). I would say the amp mostly just gives a bit more kick to the bass and takes a bit of the sssss out of the treble.

    I wish I had more for comparison purposes but college and $9.50/hr tends to not lend itself well to spending lots of money. Sadly. I'll do what I can with what I have.
    ________________________________________________________

    #Accessories and build

    For $800, I think you get a good amount of accessories. I mean, it's a pair of headphones, there's really not that much that can be given (that matters).
    It includes 3 Tuning foams, each slightly changing the timbre of the headphones. The each dulls the treble ever so slightly, and brings the bass out a bit more. I'll go further into detail later in the review.
    It also comes with a cable, unsurprisingly. The cable looks good and feels well built. For the input, you have the option of XLR and 3.5mm. So you can run this off your phone, but sound will suffer. More on that later, though.
    They've included a microfiber cloth so you can keep that pretty carbon fibre spray looking nice. Also comes with one tough-ass hard shell case, complete with space for a portable amp, or a pair of IEMs. Very nice case. If you somehow manage to break these headphones, which would be hard to do as they feel very well built and robust, they come with a 2 year warranty. Although I am unsure that it would cover you dropping them, because it probably doesn't protect against the owner being clumsy.
    _____________________________________________________________

    #Sound impressions

    This is the playlist I have tested from. I made it and it features a lot of stuff I just like, or feel is good for testing. Usually both. If you read at the top, I briefly explain what I am looking for. I have also used a few sine waves at specific freqs to investigate those frequencies, and then will include that. There may be some times when I reference songs outside of this playlist. Obviously I haven't gone through every single song on this playlist with each tuning pad and headphone, but I've listened to specific parts on each with most.

    So, lets begin. To start I'm going without any tuning pads.

    Bass:

    I use Ben Reimer's *Drum Dances: I.* to test this (btw, if you like this album please support him! He's just another musician trying to make his way and do something new. You can buy *Katana of Choice* here!). This song features mallet instruments and a drum set playing often in complex counterpoints. And holy shit is it crazy. He's all over- but I can hear it well. There's a bit less clarity than I would like, but it is all well pronounced- I can hear the individual strikes, but they sometimes get the tiniest bit mixed in with each other- which makes sense. Really, I can't fault them with this song. They do what I would expect, they keep it clear enough and allow the drums to resonate like they should. Only when I'm being really picky do I notice any issues. Another song I'll reference is Groove off of *Explorations in Space and Time*, which is an awful name for an album. But its wonderfully mastered and an amazing Chesky binaural production. These give me everything I want. The deep notes resonate, they're full but not overwhelming. And the detail, oh the detail. The timbre of the shakers, the spacing. I honestly sometimes forget these are closed back, they feel so wide (especially on binaural tracks). The timpani has a clear strike, the bass drum rumbles, the toms snaps and bangs. In Metallica's *The Call of Ktulu*, the bass is punchy, hard and in your face. Some might want more bass here, but it honestly delivers for my demands. In Massive Attack's *Teardrop*, the kick is in your face, deep and then the longer rumble comes in. It's reserved, but clear and adds absolutely clearly to the depth of this song. Not overwhelming, but just there. Just like it should be.
    It's just what I want. You get the point.

    Tl:dr, the bass is concise, deep and full- but not overwhelming at all, with enough subbass to satisfy any neutral sig lovers. Its really lovely, how its tuned. This is exactly what I wanted when I bought these, but it only gets better when you put the midrange on top of it.

    So, the mids:

    For this, I'm going to largely referencing Classical and vocals. The *Theme from Schindler's List* is up first, a beautiful classical ensemble piece. It sounds natural through this. Not sharp, not overly warm, but just right. It is extremely clear and the violin just sounds sweet. When in the lower register, it sounds full; when in the higher register,it sings. The cello in the background gives a fullness to the music and adds depth to the sound. In the Dave Brubeck Quartet's song *Take Five*, the saxophone moves with absolute liquidity through the different frequency ranges. It sounds clear to everything in the background, and everything is easily distinguishable. The drums ever slightly to the left, the piano to the right, the bass to the near right, and smack in the middle is the saxophone. All are perfectly seperated, the drum keeps its timbre, the bass has that shaky sound of the plucking of the strings, the piano has clear staccato, but hangs when it needs to and the sax on top of all this, singing its melody. The dynamics are also pretty good, but I'll go back into that later. It just sounds so damn natural and effortless, and nothing feels recessed. It's wonderful. Moving to, finally, some vocals! I'll start with Paramore's *26*. I saw them live just a few weeks ago, and man is Hayley a wonderful singer. This song perfectly exhibits her skill. Her voice is warm, welcoming, and ever so melancholy. The different instruments in the background layer on each other, but she remains separate, distinct and clear. I only wish she got a bit more intense in this one, but that's just the song, not her. On *Misery Business*, she gets goin hard. At 1:01, she has a phrase and on the word "feels" you can hear this slight waver she adds to give it ever so much more emotion. I will say though, I wouldn't mind a bit more of her voice. But it may well just be the recording. As far as male vocals go, I chose to use *Hurt* by Johnny Cash. A song full of emotion, and it absolutely **NEEDS** to come through for this to feel right. The AFC delivers. I feel shivers, the sound encompasses me and the trailing off of his voice at the end of phrases comes through clearly. Every small grunt, every breath, the plucking of the strings, the depth of the piano and his voice. I can feel tears welling up as the last lyrics come through. Admittedly, this isn't the best recording ever. His mic sometimes can't keep up with the volume of his voice- but I think that slight mic feedback is just his character. Its wonderful despite its faults, and this headphone delivers all the emotion- on both this version, but also delivers the anemic, minimalist sound of the original and its eerie, depressed feeling. Now for some higher male vocals with *Roundabout* by Yes. I'm focusing on the vocals right before the instrumental break at 3.25 ish. The voices are clear above the music. And then the instrumental break- the percussion is relatively clear to the right side, the guitar is powerful in the center, and then the voices come through. It all just sound coherent, clear and detailed, just like it should. It is now the time for the badass test- or, does it make metal sound in your face, deep, large and exciting. For this- *The Call of Ktulu* (Metallica) and King Crimson's *Starless- Live in Chicago* (I was at this concert so it has a special place for me). TCoK (Metallica's song, too lazy to write it out) starts off simple and reserved.. but I can feel it building... and there it is! Loud, Proud and in your face, just like metal should be! The crashes are hard, the kick is there and you can almost see the guitar being played with huge, violent strokes. In Starless, the guitar comes in heavy and with that perfect longing sound I would expect from it. Then around 7:00 you can feel it building. The guitars playing in a minimalist pattern, the percussion with temple blocks and cymbals to add texture and then there it is- the high pitched repetitive pattern while an extremely heavy riffs goes in the center accompanied by the crashes of cymbals and the slamming of drums. I'd say, for any metal lover, you might want a bit more bass but otherwise this gives a wonderful fullness to the guitars that just has so much damn power! For some electronic stuff, I used Daft Punk's *Giorgio by Moroder*. It performs just as I would like and gives "life back to music," as Daft Punk would say. I, as a generally not super big fan of electronica, would say these do absolutely great with this (if you're an electronica fan and want me to test something, just comment I don't know my shit about that genre). Ok, to finish this up, something a bit more in my heart. Music for Pieces of Wood- the first percussion ensemble piece I ever played- and this version by the Smoke and Mirror Percussion Ensemble is absolutely wonderfully mastered (oh, and my percussion teacher played in it, so you might say I am really attached to this track). I use this to test separation. It's one of Steve Reich's numerous percussion works, and features 6 claves playing on top of each other largely in counterpoint (after all, Reich is the KING of counterpoint). If I listen closely, I can hear all of their tracks. Hell, I could probably notate this if I wanted to. That being said, there is some difficulty in this as some of the claves are close in pitch. But for a closed back, they deal extremely well with keeping the pitches separate and distinguishable.

    So, TL;Dr because I'm sure nobody read through all that. Its clear, pleasing to listen to, powerful when it needs to be, has good seperation, and sounds extremely natural. male and female voices both sound wonderful. Classical has bombast and beauty.

    Treble:

    I have always thought that treble is where a neutral headphone makes its mark, or loses me. To start, treble sharpness. If you have ever heard a glockenspiel up close, you know that they can hurt like hell if played super loud on high notes. This video isn't great, but you can hear how that would be sharp, yeah? To test this, I turn yet again to the amazing Ben Reimer and his track, *Ringer*. This song largely features a glockenspiel that, on my grados, is piercing. On the Aeon flow, however, it is slightly sparkly but not sharp, you can hear each individual hit but it never hurts to listen to. The same with the virtuoso drum set playing, the cymbals have the sparkle and the crashiness, but none of the sharpness or distortion that makes it hard to listen to. It only gets a tiny bit sharp around the 5:00 mark, but even that isn't painful. The only thing I would like is some of that airyness, but that is only a reminder of the limitations of closed back (I demoed the HD820 and the ZMF closed back (Eikon is it? I can't remember one from the other, damnit), and I felt they had a similar lacking of air. The symptom of closed back, although I will say the ZMF did well with it (which, considering that they are ~$300 more, I am not surprised by). Cymbals on rock songs sound right, if the tiniest bit recessed.

    Tl;dr- it does well with treble, if with a lack of some air and presence sometimes due to the closed backs.

    Separation:

    I've briefly discussed this before. They do a good job with it, although not the most revealing headphones ever. I think that they do enough to be wholly enjoyable and clear and really only have issues because of the closed back nature. But for my purposes (when I'm trying to listen to learn a drum kit part, or for a specific hit in an orchestral piece so I can better perform) they work absolutely fine.

    Dynamics:

    This would be my largest complaint, and the biggest complaint I've heard with them. I can't find the post, but a week or two ago someone posted and largely criticized their dynamic contrast. I would agree with him on some tracks, but with well mastered music I have very few problems with them. In the Reich piece from above, I found the featured clave to be loud and vocal in the front. On Fleetwood Mac's *The Chain*, the bass slams at the beginning, the decay is there but the heads of the notes are perfectly loud. Could they sometimes use a bit more air getting moved? Yeah. But I find it to be rather pleasant, such that I don't need to constantly adjust volume for the quiet and loud parts. There is certainly dynamic contrast, again sometimes lacking in loudness, but overall I feel they do it really well. And, given everything else they do so well, I have few complaints. A few songs where I would like a bit more- *Time*, Pink Floyd. The drums at the beginning could use a tad more power. *The Hut on Hen's Legs*, Modest Mussorgsky. Could use a bit more power on those first few notes. But none of this ruins songs for me. It feels comfortable to listen to despite slight faults. I think a tube amp definitely works well with these cans, gives the bass a bit more punch and the mids a bit more warmth that really gives it a fuller, more dynamic sound.
    __________________________________________________

    #Comparisons


    I'm going to try and keep this shorter. I'll start with the pads and then go to the Hifiman and then call it a day. I will only use a few songs for comparison purposes- *Time*, *Ringer*, *Theme from Schindler's List* and *Teardrop* mostly. For mids, treble, mids round 2, and bass, respectively.

    Tuning Pads- you just insert them in and they do stuff

    Black Pad- Lightest effect:

    I'm going to start with *Ringer*, as I feel their effect is mostly in the treble. I hear, oddly, more sparkle here and more of the hitting of the glock than the ringing. Odd. There feels like more texture to them, but less tonality. I'm actually kinda confused here at how this works. I would also say they give a bit more punch to the bass. I'm still formulating my thoughts here. I think it makes the treble a bit more pleasant around the 5:00 mark, which I previously said was a bit sharp. As for *Time*, I can immediately hear the mids fill up a bit. The keyboard and the guitar gets a bit more power. The drum has slightly less attack. My complaint during the song is the cymbal feels a tad too weak, loses some drive. For the lovers of the HD600, I would say this feels like a closed back version of it with ever so slightly smoother sound. Not quite 650. And the bass. Its immediately kickier. Very noticeably so. A bit much for my ears, I don't care for the pressure of it. But the sub bass definitely has a bit more sound to it, and a tiny bit of a rumble here. Still very under control. I would say it works very nicely for classical, still has the edge to keep the momentum going but isn't ever too sharp and keeps the mids and lows nice and warm. I really love *The Hut on Hen's Feet* by Mussorgsky with these. Tons of energy and power and extremely full.

    So a bit of warmth, and calms the treble ever so slightly. Pleasant for some stuff, for others it takes the cymbals down too much for my liking and makes it too reserved for my ears. For someone who is moderately treble sensitive; however, it would be perfect.

    White 1 notch pad- medium (comes pre-installed):

    This is like a warm fuzzy hug. I don't know that it's for me though. On classical, its energetic, but loses some of the edge I usually want. But some songs are perfect- see Gustav Mahler's 1st symphony, movement 4: Sturmisch bewegt (stormy, agitated if my German education has helped me at all). Powerful and full, like it should be. But *Theme for Schindler's List* gets a bit too reserved for my liking, although for someone who likes the HD650 it might be perfect. Hell I'd say it does the HD650 but better in the regards that the treble is still there, present, but not painful. To test that, our beloved *Ringer* is back, and its not painful at all to me here, at the 5:00 minute mark even. With *Time*, I have the same complaint as with the first pad- the cymbals and the attacks are dulled in a song where the attack is ever so important. For Metallica fans; however, there's tons of power with these and the odd treble on some of their songs is rectified.
    tl;dr- more bass, less treble. Good power with some songs, with others they're a bit laid back for me.

    And the last pad, 2 notch white.

    I will come straight out and say I do not like this one. Too dark. This is the HD650 but better, and I still don't like it. I never particularly liked the 650, unless they're paired with a properly nice amp (in which case I'd rather just get a better pair of headphones). Its just too laid back. Nothing really stands out. The bass quantity doesn't improve, the treble is boring as hell, and the vocals aren't anything special. Just sounds recessed. Boring. Not my thing.
    tl;dr if you like this, you're weird. Its like for studying, because its so damn boring to listen to through these you won't want to pay attention. Too laid back and recessed, like HD650 to me, and I just don't enjoy them with these. Although now that I say they're good for studying, I might actually use them for that because I can't help get distracted from how boring these sound.

    So to round the tuning pads up, the black is my favorite, then the one notch, and I despise the two notch. But I think, for most music, I prefer them without any pads. For fans of warmer sigs; however, the one notch or the black might be perfect for you. ^and ^maybe ^the ^two ^notch ^for ^weird ^people

    Comparison to the Hifiman HE560:
    So the first thing I'm noticing is the treble. It's a bit sharper and more importantly, airier. Again, the limitation of closed back. The bass has a bit less quantity but a similar punchiness. The sub bass on both of these is actually about the same, the AFC having maybe a tiny bit more. Looking at the measurements (albeit with the one notch white filter) the AFC is a bit more linear. I'd say this is like the difference between the HD650 and the HD660 here. Ones a bit more trebley, the other a bit bassier (albeit not as bassy as the 650) and with a bit smoother treble. Oddly enough, I don't find *Ringer* to be painful on the 560 at all, probably the pressure that causes the issue with the AFC. But its not bad on either regardless. They're both very detailed and the 560 is a bit more revealing and has slightly better imaging. But for a closed back, with all the faults that come with, I find the AFC extremely impressive despite the handicaps it has to deal with. Also, the HE560 kinda lacks in the classical department. They could use a touch more warmth to be fuller sounding here, but that why I have the AFC!
    ______________________________________________________________

    So, to close up, some further notes. They isolate well enough when music is going. Nowhere near an in-ear, but still good. I think, above all, these headphones are just pleasurable to listen to. They're comfortable as hell too. Weighing just 328 grams, all the Audeze people will wish they had this kind of lightweight comfort. They look quite striking, in my opinion. So all things considered, I'd say they're worth their asking price of $800 and will likely be one of my main companions through college. Additionally, Dan Clark, the owner of Mr. Speakers, is a wonderful guy. I met him at AXPONA and I demoed these for a good hour off some Woo Audio tubes, which prompted me to get them. He was perfectly indulging about all my questions and had some awesome music recommendations for me, so I have no doubt that customer support (given that Mr. Speakers is a small America-based company) has great customer service (and I have seen posts about it saying exactly that).
    Also, given their relatively low impedance and high sensitivity, you can run them off your phone. That being said they hugely benefit from an amp, but if you want a barebones portable setup they are sold with a 3.5mm cable (and come with a 1/4in connector that screws right on to the end), so they will "work," but not at their full potential.


    #The TL;DR of this post:
    Nicely detailed although open backs at this price range will outdo them, but that isn't surprising.
    Wide soundstage, particularly good for a closed back.
    Natural Tuning & relatively responsive to EQ. My personal favorite is Oratory1990's Harmon Target EQ.
    Extremely comfortable, well isolating.
    One complaint is the slight dynamic compression, but I have found that most closed backs have some of that.
    Closed back also takes a lot of the airiness of the sound, which is a damn shame.



    Thanks for reading! Hope I could be helpful. My fingers hurt now from all this typing, took me a good 2-3 hours to type all this up. I'll probably be off for a bit now, but if you would like anything from me just comment and I'll try and get back to you ASAP!
    (If you want me to compare anything, we can set something up for me to demo it somehow. Just PM about that, I'm always open to hearing new cans for longer periods of time).
    Also, this is the first time I've bothered to review anything seriously. If you have any criticisms or comments that could help me in the future, I would be totally open to them! Thanks!
     
  12. Gruss Gott

    Gruss Gott Almost "Made"

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    Excellent write up!

    I'm just a caveman, so there's a lot I know I don't know, and more that I don't know that I don't know ... that said, the AFC out of the Eitr>Modi Multibit>Jot and Chord Mojo just didn't hit the bass target for me whereas the TH-X00 did, but obviously gives up treble clarity and some mids. Amos/currawong has mentioned going from the Cascades (more v shape) to the AFC feels like the AFC are completely missing the bottom end and that was my overall feeling with AFCs - no bass, so they went back.

    Loved a LOT about them, but that lack of bass doesn't make table stakes for me.
     
  13. Erikdayo

    Erikdayo Friend

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    I owned the AFC for a while as well but don’t really have such a significant write up. All listening was from the RME ADI-2 DAC as an all in one.

    I found the mid bass quantity really lacking on the AFC unless I turned them up a bit louder than my usual listening levels. This is an exaggeration, but they basically sounded like cheap earbuds to me if the volume was not cranked up enough. In contrast my dynamics still have plenty of bass presence at lower volumes.

    On the plus side I found them very speedy and clean sounding. Definitely appreciated those qualities.

    Comfort wise they are some of the most comfortable over ears I’ve ever used. The suspension system MrSpeakers uses combined with the relatively light weight is fantastic. I’d say it’s even better than the ADX5000 on comfort. Very slightly less comfortable on top but no issues with ears touching the ear pads or baffles here.

    As a downside I think the way the adjustments work need improvement. Everything is held in place by a screw on each side. If you tighten them a lot they won’t slip often, but it still happens in small amounts over time. Adding some notches in would be a huge plus to me.

    The main reason I opted to try them was to have a closed headphone to use when my AC was running. It’s a rather loud window unit. The isolation is very good on the AFC. Definitely made for a better listening experience when the AC was on but not good enough to keep.

    The day I received my Atticus I decided to just be done with the closed headphone search. While the Atticus was much more to my liking sonically it wasn't comfortable enough for my extra sensitive head. These experiences led me to do what I should have done all along.

    I returned the Atticus and sold the AFC. Started using my 6 1/2 year old IEMs (SE535) when I needed isolation from the AC. All very convenient with the IEM jack on the ADI-2 DAC.

    I'm quite sure there are better IEMs out there too, but I'd rather not go on a IEM journey. In addition, Shure has always been among the most comfortable of the universals I've tried.
     
  14. roughroad

    roughroad formerly mephisto56

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    Reviving an old thread. I didn't see this mentioned here or in the measurements thread, so I'm gonna throw this out to those with more experience than me (which is just about everyone on this site). My HP amp is a maxed out Torpedo III. Does it have enough juice to adequately drive the AFO's? Also, any opinions on matching SQ wise? I'm saving up for a different pr. of hp's and saw these; was also considering the Auteur's. Currently using Meze 99 Classics.

    From reading the threads, the comments about the AFO caught my eye as I like a dynamic meaty presentation with good bass (I'm a closet basshead I guess) and smooth highs. I've always been kinda sensitive to anything tending toward HF harshness. I really like the TIII for its dynamics, imaging, and layering. It's way more natural sounding than my old amp (A-gd C2 11th Anniv.) on acoustic instruments while having bite when needed for the rock and metal I listen to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  15. dropadred

    dropadred New

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    I don't think these will be sufficient in the bass region for you. Or maybe if you are focusing on a mid-bass region, then maybe, but honestly, I think they have just too much of a mid/high-bass and low-mids.

    I see you are from US, I would, personally, look at TR-610 by Fostex or TR-X00 Ebony, I am sure both will have more intensive bass
    https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-fostex-tr-x00-ebony-headphones
     
  16. roughroad

    roughroad formerly mephisto56

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    @dropadred, I did a bingeread on the TH-X00 thread here on SBAF and decided to take a leap of faith. I bought a pair of TH-X00 EB's off of HF, received them a few days ago. Will post impressions after I get a more thorough listen to them in the appropriate thread.
     
  17. RedFuneral

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    This week I took in a pair of Aeon Flow Opens after inquiring in the general advice thread on a more forgiving pair of headphones which would avoid having either a shouty/honky emphasis or bloated bass. The Aeons weren't recommended but I saw them as a compromise between the two phones that were: LCD2 & 650. I was concerned about the LCD's 1-2K boost & the Senn's bass distortion. These are first impressions.

    I'm listening through a JDS OL & JDS Atom(temp rig) I briefly ran the Aeons through my Ragnarok to check if I was power limited, it was quickly disqualified due to fatiguing/shouty mids. The Rag has this issue with all headphones I've tried through it can be enjoyable in short bursts. Point being the Aeon Open is less colored than some amps, it won't congeal their differences like an Audio Technica R70x. *Is there any interest in specific comparison between the AFO and the AT R70x/Beyer T70?


    First impressions of the Aeon are that its going to take me some time to adjust. These is darker than any other headphone I've owned. The only other bassy phones I've owned have been Ultrasones(V with stronger treble than bass,) one vintage STAX, a Senn HD598, and various AKG portables. Second thing I heard was how wrong I was when I stated in the advice thread that the music I enjoy has nothing going on in the bass. The bass guitars do tend to be buried in the mix however I'm finding I can hear them note for note with a strongly detailed timbre here. I want to simplify and call it a 'planar thing' but this trait escaped the Hifiman Sundara which was better served with sterile electronic basslines. I've only heard this before on the STAX SR-5NB. I'm uncertain how the Aeon combines this detail with its bass bloom, I'd expected quick transients & detail quality to go hand in hand. That's the assumption that led me down a path of mostly bass light headphones.

    The mids & treble are going to take me some time to decipher. I'm currently unsure if what I'm hearing is a reduction in volume or a reduction in ringing. I can offer a few quick thoughts:
    • More mid-range detail than I'm used to, likely because these are free of glare
    • Filters are subtle. Started with 1 notch, moved to 2. Tried with none and found some glare(filters are mandatory)
    • Sparkly high freq synths sound quiet. Same with distorted guitars which may be reduction of glare
    • Thicker sound than I'm used to but not significantly so
    • Speed is at least as capable as anything else I own, a concern moving away from brighter phones.
    • Staging sucks(forward without the shout,) may be a dealbreaker in the longterm
    • 'Tried' tubes by insering a CJ preamp between DAC/AMP. Similar to when I tried a STAX 006t with the SR5s the bass magic was lost. Proved strongly fatiguing with AFO. Not sure this counts as a real test of anything
    • Thank you for the leather earpads. I'm always conscious of suede on my head, like a material hot-spot.
    • I'd say I'm enjoying them; they're rekindling my interest in learning bass guitar which first sprouted with the STAX SR5s many years ago. The Aeons have provided a repeat revelation "There's all that going on down there and I've been missing out."
    I've only run a fraction of my library through them so far, I intend to post more on them after the newness dies out. Am noticing that I'm avoiding the atmospheric/ambient side of my collection for fear of how they may stage. Did the exact opposite when I took the Sundara in. The glare I've mentioned a few times follows the OL DAC, but I'm sure my preference for badly recorded music also has a part to do with it.
    I'm planning on grabbing one or two other 'forgiving' headphones to run these against; models undecided. Any specific models warrant comparison? Any advice on what genres show them at their best?
     
  18. RedFuneral

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    The writing was on the wall with my complete focus on the bass performance of these headphones in my initial impressions. I've mostly been using these to sample the tone of bass guitars online, the Aeon Opens don't motivate me to listen to music.

    It's the staging. It's a small stage to begin with and it shrinks as your music grows in complexity. If you've heard the Audio Technica AD900 you'll understand perfectly. When the complexity turns up the musicians begin a game of twister in the backseat of a clown car. There simply isn't any layering or separation with these, everything piles on top of everything else. Unlike the AD900s the stage doesn't grow with simpler music or reduced volumes, this kills ambient music for me.
    My Beyerdynamic T70s are a closed pair of headphones with enough staging performance to get by. The Audio Technica R70x comes in with a consistently average stage lacking the musical pickiness of the brand's cheaper model.

    The AFO has taught me how important staging is to my taste. The AFOs have also taught me what's possible in bass definition outside of super light electrostats. They've taught me that you can have both an energetic sound and fatigue free listening. They've taught me that planars can do volumes from low to high without falling on their face. I do place them on an objective quality level matching their price in terms of detail, refinement, and timbre. None of its enough to distract from their bad staging. I'd rather have the Sundara here with me again and unlike the AFO with its notable bass the Sundara is distinctly unmagical(average in almost every way.) The Sundara has issues with detail/bass but it wins for the other things it lacks: no Mount Beyer, no R70x grain, and no AFO prison cell staging.
     
  19. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Staging is one of those things that you only really "get" once you miss it, in my experience. It's the main reason I sold off the Grado RS1 (older version)— even my DT880s are ridiculously roomy-sounding compared to them. The treble on them was tolerable (at least compared to other modern Grados...) and I actually enjoyed what it did in the midrange, but cramming an entire orchestra into an Altoids tin and stuffing it into my nasal cavity didn't sit well with me.

    And yeah, even when something measures as well as the AFO it might not necessarily sound great. Subjective impressions matter just as much as squiggles, provided they're trustworthy impressions.

    On that note, how's the Sundara compare to the AFO in terms of attack and liveliness? I recall someone saying the HFMs were pretty unengaging as well despite the slightly u-shaped FR. That the AFOs are even more boring is... scary. Then again, neutral sound ain't my wheelhouse, but at the same time I'm looking to save up for something more normal-sounding than what I have eventually to keep my sanity.
     
  20. RedFuneral

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    Right, staging is easy to take for granted and I understand a lot of people see it as a nonfactor. I could have pieced together that I wouldn't like the Aeons based on the impressions here had I been less focused on other aspects of the sound.

    I haven't owned the Sundara since December so I'm not able to A/B them on the spot. The AFOs are probably the more lively overall. The Sundaras have the lightweight HFM drivers which give them a floaty rounded sound which will make them boring to some listeners regardless of frequency response. The AFOs are one of the more physical presentations I've heard. If the Sundaras are unengaging(and surprisingly forgiving) the AFOs are straddle the line of boring & hyped(Beyers.) This factor seems to exist outside of the FR curve.
     

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