SBAF free advertising for Massdrop?

I'm with @brencho on this one. Makes SBAF look like a massdrop shill site, only because the timing is too convenient. Lets be honest here. Where do you think most people go to see opinions on the latest audiophile drop on massdrop? Not reddit, not head-fi, its SBAF. Lets face it, there are no other places to get reliable reviews other than SBAF and its going to take a lot of reassurance from someone to join a drop with a long waiting time that is usually 6 months or so.

The press embargo thing with reviews are fine and the timing of the reviews are ok, its just the massdrop business model is terrible. If the products were readily available the moment it dropped, I don't think there would be as many complications

Its just that whole FEAR of MISSING out the best thing since sliced bread at the best price for a LIMITED time only while waiting for 6 months. It only works when there is a lot of hype and a lot of backing to give assurance to "investors", which I have to say SBAF is providing without any agenda.

I think the tone of the reviews on SBAF have to change to something more of a neutral/ negative tone. Its ok to be enthusiastic about the product but I feel that the weaknesses of every gear should be equally represented. I feel like the good stuff is represented way more than the negatives. It makes every massdrop product/schiit product too FOMO in my opinion only to be criticized later for short comings. For example if I were a noob, I would think that every new amp that massdrop + schiit put out is revolutionary, but I always ask the question...is it better than a ecp T3(I was a not a fan of that amp)? Answer almost in every case is.....probably not. We have to stop thinking we can make supercars at unbelieveable prices without taking any "compromises". If that day comes, I'll be first to wave my white flag.

for review examples...... the Prophile 8 review that was done in a blunt manner made it easier to see what troubles someone might run into while purchasing the product.

 

@Cellist88 I see your point. You're asking people to act out of character and highlight negatives as if they don't already give them due attention, though; pretty sure every non-poop review on here has all necessities stated, including ownership status and personal preferences. Hell, @purr1n stopped talking about things he didn't like for fear of hurting manufacturers, but he still answered honestly when prodded.

Guess that kinda brings the whole "is SBAF for a limited group of people or the larger audio community?" thing up again. Most of the time you need a lot of prior reading to get a feel for whether or not a person's impressions will likely coincide with yours, and that's not time very many people have. Kinda makes sussing out relevant information a bit more difficult, and I can see how a SparkNotes version might not be sufficiently informative.

But it's not as if they're the only people who review crap on here, just that it takes longer for others who're less closely affiliated with manufacturers to get stuff. Sample case: @k4rstar Schiiting on the Lyr 3 when everyone was lavishing it with praise. People got a better idea of how the Lyr 3 might suck (for their tastes, despite others' saying it's Schiit's best ever amp), and in my case at least I bumped it down one spot for my end-of-mid-fi amp purchase. Maybe it would be better if manufacturers allowed more people in on preview stuff, especially those that they know might not like their stuff, though that might defeat the purpose of a press embargo. Doubt that'll ever happen though, cuz who the frijoles would go out of their way to elicit a bad review of their product?

 

If you're (colloquial) so insecure that you actually succumb to FOMO, based on the opinions of others that, per the below, you have issues with anyway, that would seem to be a personal problem.

To this I can only say, "lead, follow ... or get out of the way".

I'm not going to highlight a bunch of artificial negatives in a budget-level product just to meet some arbitrary criteria or feel-good-factor. I don't see a lot wrong with the RDAC that's not called out in the specific DAC comparisons that's worth thinking about at $350.

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In contrast, I am not, for example, going to put artificial positives on the S19 review to balance it out, either.

I'm also not going to say that the R-2R 11 sounds worse than the S19. Miraculously, and almost unbelievably, it doesn't. I mean, it still sounds shite ... rolled-off insipid nonsense w/ added harshness, but it's both better sounding and better value than the S19.

 

I don't like seeing the words "free reviews," because the last thing I would want to see is paid reviews! People here, whether it's the big guys or the not so big, write, talk about, praise, slap down, read about, equipment because it is what we are interested in. There should not be any relationship with, or obligation of or too (by with or from? I always hated that declension thing!) any sort of reward.

Skilful PR manipulation? That's the world we live in. It will happen. Who's a manufacturer going to lend some new thing, or thing under development, etc, to... Marv, Torq, or me? Well, I'm not expecting any boxes any time soon. And hey, this is not sour grapes. Not wanting either: spending hours listening and comparing, and hours more writing something meaningful is not my thing. Too much like hard work.

So, maybe Massdrop, Schiit, and a handful of others have a bit of access. At least here they don't get slavish response. And if SBAF has a little attack of FOTMism occasionally, that's human.

It is tempting, perhaps, to think in terms like "We've been awfully nice (or mostly nice) and pretty useful to you, how about slipping us, in one way or another, a few dollars?" Nope. Because that way lies the obligation to go on being mostly-nice/useful/etc. That way lies... well, y'all know what. And/or making stupid videos on youtube.

So no, I don't think we are offering free advertising for Massdrop. Apart from DIY, this is a hobby around commercial products: writing about any of them offers some sort of publicity. Wouldn't make much sense without the names!

i think that this site has great aims, and great standards. Not, like saints, though... that would be horrible!

 

It's something of an aside, but is hard to forget ...

I was having a brief chat with Mike (Moffat) - I think it was about possibly testing Analog 2 boards - and the bulk of the conversation had nothing to do with that and was just general flim-flam about audio. We talked about Sol, philosophically, and Mike mentioned "it pairs well with Mani ... though Marv f'ing hates Mani".

There's no question in my mind that anyone that asks, here, gets brutally honest feedback.

 

Take the money and call it a sponsored review. I would definitely buy if @brencho hosted a Massdrop infomercial that was posted on SBAF.

 

(Emphasis, mine).

Especially this.

I've never been approached by Massdrop for feedback on a non-DAC product.

 

Its obvious @brencho is butthurt that he wasn't included...

3 guys here signed agreements, followed the rules, expressed their unbiased opinions, done. I don't get the concern.

 

LOL really? You don't know me at all, I have a nice dac and it gets turned on once every other month. I use avheadphone maybe once a month. I stay on the site cause I have friends here. I have incredibly limited interest in gear. @Bill-P left the Leptoni with me for a while before shipping it off to Marv and others and I didn't even turn it on after we met. Just want to get a possibly useful conversation going here, light some fires and walk away lol

 

Like others have said, as long as there's full disclosure it's not an issue for me.

Certain SBAF members are definitely friends with people at Massdrop and Schiit. It's something everyone should take into account, as do I. However this has never been a secret and so far, I have no reason to really believe that this colors reviews. If anything it's the opposite, and manufacturers change their products based on feedback. Which would be a good reason why the reviewers like the product.

But really, I don't know how much to care how it appears, at least outside SBAF, because we don't really strive to be a "quality audio site". Just friends sharing what we think sounds good.

 

I'd like it to stay that way but I think sbaf has strayed from that path a while ago. We'll see if we find our way back.

 

Maybe so, but I think that is an oversimplified version of the actual issue being discussed.

 

It's friends helping friends, and really, I'm on the site for free so I don't care. That said, I'm also see familiar names that get together at friendly meetups.

And if Massdrop was to sponsor, it'd be no different than Schiit who already sponsors. And we've already had the Schiit shills thread so...

 

I see where you are coming from, but I disagree. The moment massdrop becomes a sponsor, these articles stop being reviews and they start being advertisements. Instant credibility loss. Remember when the Ethers were compared to the M50X, and didn't make the WoF... And then suddenly they made the WoF in a follow up article? Remember Mr.Speakers being a sponsor? I always thought, but could never prove, that Dan read that article and had a giant conniption fit with the powers that be, hence the follow up article and WoF entry.

Regardless of that being true or not, that's not the kind of shit we need to invite to SBAF.

I don't want to read advertisements. I want to read reviews - preferably from people who have massive experience with other gear, and who's personal preference on sound I'm familiar with. I'll be honest with you, that's also why I have mixed feelings about Schiit becoming a sponsor. I'm a little less concerned with them, as they as they have such a large customer base as to have non-sponsored reviews be available as a reality check beyond the Sr. members here who also get early dibs on gear and information about products. With Massdrop, you generally don't get a return policy. So if I read that Rave review, and it ends up being a blatant lie, I'm pretty much fucked. With Schiit I can always send it back.

Anyway... I don't think it was a coincidence that all of the reviews were released on the same day. All of the reviewers mentioned that they had a NDA in place on reviews until a certain date, and that's common practice in the industry.

I haven't read anybody else's reply, but I thought I'd chime in with my opinion.

 

Mr Brench - I think you missed the tone of the message from someone named ButtUgleJeff. I've heard he is only ModeratelyUglyJeff at best.

The smart reader who has been around realizes that a review of a product isnt gospel that needs to be carved into a stone tablet. Marv, Torq, Tyll, whoever, etc are reference points. You learn the reviewers friends and affiliations just as you learn their sonic preferences.

I support Brencho's modest proposal for eating babies coming out of the closet and getting a few bucks for supporting friends they were already supporting.

 

@Elnrik Yeah I hear your point, but I continue to believe the opinions and impressions wouldn't change (esp not change compared to what we just saw). the whole point of friends reviewing for friends should make you question such a thing as objectivity. the RDAC thread felt a whole lot like f'ing advertising to me. i'm definitely not saying marv, hands, torq, and other people are lying through their teeth or intentionally misleading. i'm talking about human nature, to which nobody is exempt. so if that's the case, i think an official sponsorship would change nothing about the reviews, would add transparency, and would help make the site grow/better in other ways.

 

Well, how many "review units" made it out to the wild? Was it just our DAC Triumvirate and Jude only? Or were there more involved? @CEE TEE can you share a number? (I'm actually tattle tailing on @brencho)

 

yeah i totally realize that, i was in a rush and since i live in a world of duels at dawn had to defend my honor. it was an impulsive reaction and i clearly missed the tone of Mr. Jeff ButtUgly in doing so. no relationships with buttugly or moderatelyugly jeffs were harmed in writing these posts. aka i <3 u buttuglyjeff.

I think that Josh's approval is literally all that was missing to move forward with this proposition. Now, who writes the letter in magazine cutouts and drops it off at massdrop?