Schiit Vidar Impression Thread - UPDATED WITH REVIEW (CHECK FIRST POST)

The Vidar is plenty capable of driving the Maggies to quite respectable SPLs. I think it would be adequate for most people's typical listening scenarios. The bass is better than I expected, having not owned panels before my expectations were low. I still appreciate my subs filling in under around 50Hz, but I don't think throwing more power at the Maggies would improve it much further in that regard. That's just as low as it going to go with a panel that size. The 1.7 are a bit bigger than the MG12s but I'm guessing the bass response will be similar.

As for cooling, I don't actually think I have adequate cooling space and don't think it is an amp problem that I have tripped the protection. That said this amp does generate quite a bit of heat so placement is a real consideration. (I would not be surprised if it is easily making over 200 clean watts to be honest as well, does anyone independently measure these things?))

 

Looked at the 1.7 specs, and they say 40-24 kHz. The MG12s are spec'd at 45-22 kHz +/- 3dB. This corresponds well with my response plots, where they are fairly flat down to 50, then fall off about 3 dB to 45, and then keep falling from there. Sounds like the 1.7s will probably give you an extra 5Hz in the bottom end. I would expect that to be the case with any reasonably powerful, quality amplifier.

Paul's Brio is rated at 73 WPC into 4 ohms, which is certainly on the low side of what would typically be recommended for his Maggies so I would not be surprised if the bass extension is actually worse than the specs above.

Again I think the folks at Magnepan have good advice for those shopping for amps in their FAQ - " An Gold Standard for an amplifier would be to double the power at 4 ohms. This concept is important even if you are buying an 8 ohm speaker. If the amplifier is rated at 80 watts at 8 ohms, it should (ideally) produce 160 watts at 4 ohms (or close to it)...............this is the benchmark of a good amplifier design. A 10 watt amplifier that produces 20 watts at 4 ohms "speaks volumes" about the PHILOSOPHY of the designer. (But, of course, it does not tell you if a 10 watt amplifier is enough for your room.)"

http://www.magnepan.com/faq

 

Amp 'rated power' at 8 ohms that doubles to 4 ohms is more telling that the specs are conservative.
It does not necessarily say much about the quality of it's psu, robustness of output devices, stability into ridiculous loads, etc.
It's as shitty of a criteria for 'quality amp' as THD, Freq resp, etc.

The amp truly gives out the 'rated' specs only when the PSU is fully regulated; most amplifier's isn't.
I don't know about Vidar, looking at the internals, it doesn't show any substantial silicone doing high current regulation.
There is substantial silicone doing amp-ing.
Besides, a mediocre regulator is much worse than no regulator. Especially for speakers that are a bitch to drive.
Tales about it's wonderful bass hint it doesn't have a shitty reg there.

It's more likely that amp spec'ed like Vidar does for example 130W into 8 ohms and something like 220W into 4,
both numbers being above 'rating', but still not doubling power into half the load.
A non reg-d output stage it can't do that, doesn't matter how bulky the transformer and cap bank are.

 

For sure it is just intended as a general guideline, like most numbers. If it doubles it's power again at 2 ohms that would be even better. I think you get what you pay for is the general guideline that covers the those things.

Maybe. I would have no way of knowing, though in the absence of independent testing (not ASR lol) I think manufacturers specs are all most people have to go by. And reviews, which is why we are here to begin with.

Anyway, I just went with the published numbers from a respected company and and I'm pretty happy. Coincidence? I don't think so.....

 

So I've been meaning to update my Vidar impressions now that I have spent some quality time with it. I had mentioned earlier in the thread that using MG12s for loudspeakers, the Saga preamp was not able to drive the Vidar to the levels I expected (though this was not the case with some less demanding loudspeakers). After running it for a while with a more traditional solid state preamp, and then recently having replaced that with a Freya, there are no such limitations. With Freya, the passive mode still provides a very transparent experience at lower volumes, and the tube stage allows the Vidar to really show off what it is capable of. And it is very capable for sure. I'm not an experienced reviewer so I can't use all the buzzwords one might expect, but suffice to say it sounds as good if not better than some significantly more expensive amps I have heard. This is a serious amp that belies its downright reasonable price point. I can only imagine what two of them would be like (I'm trying not to think about that).

One thing to note, while in my experience all audio equipment sounds better when it is warmed up, this seems to be particularly significant with the Vidar. When it is cold it sounds pretty unremarkable and if you audition it in that state you may think "so what is the hype about". When it is warm it is a totally different animal, and it won't warm up by just turning it on and letting it idle. I've taken to putting on a CD at moderate volume and letting it play through while I do something else before I sit down for a listening session. The difference is night and day.

It has been a while since a system brought so many smiles to my face while I listen. I would totally recommend anyone looking for an amp in this power class to try one of these first. I don't think you will be disappointed.

 

I gave this a shot last night and still found an audible buzz occurring. I’ll continue to experiment. I have an EBTech Hum X filter Jason has recommmended on the way and will see if that helps.

Interestingly, the Vidar is silent when I use a SYS in place of the Saga.

 

I hope the Hum-X works for you. I tried one somewhere along the line but it didn’t work for me so I returned it. My issue was more of a hum than a buzz though.

 

Could also be happening if equipment is stacked on top of each other, transformers are too close, power and signal cables are too close or touch and if signal cables aren’t shielded or something.

 

@Kirk, I had a terrible buzz myself with Saga/Vidar. I tried everything I could, nothing helped. Pretty sure it was a groundloop. Never really found out. Only thing I noticed, that the buzz changed when I moved the plugs a bit. Anyways, I bought a Palmer Line Isolation Box and the buzz was gone. Well, it's still there if I put my ear close to the speakers, but by moving away a ft or 2, it's not audiable anymore. So no big deal. Just to let you know of an option, in case the EBTech won't work. Can't hear any difference in SQ.

BTW, the buzz was louder when Vidar and Saga where plugged into the same power strip and better when using 2 different strips. Weird, as everybody kept telling me to use the same one.

 

I understand it's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison but does anyone have an impression of the Vidar vs something like the First Watt F5 Turbo v2 or v3?

 

Would really depend on your speakers but I'd imagine the bass would be more mellow, rounder and less powerful sounding. You'd also experience a more natural sound closer to tubes.

 

Thanks to those that offered feedback and input.

The Hum-X arrived and has assisted with dropping the buzz to a near silence. I'm done. I can live with it considering the mojo it brings to the Code-5LE.

 

Not much action in this thread lately. My Vidar continues to bring smiles to my face every day. So much so I am seriously considering getting another one. If only it were that simple......

My current setup has also brought some environmental limitations to light that I had not really considered before. My 2 channel system is in an upstairs bedroom. My house has central air, but the thermostat is on the main floor in the living room. Ordinarily it works just fine keeping the whole house cool, even in really hot summers like this one has been. Of course my last amp was only 80wpc, and I never really gave it any thought. The Vidar at 200wpc creates considerably more heat (the Freya is no slouch in the heat generating department either). So much so that it warms up the room faster than the A/C is able to cool it. I've biased the airflow by adjusting vents as best I can, but that only helps so much. Not a big deal in the evenings or on days when I can open the windows, but it is problematic when the outside temperature hits the high 30s C (95-100F) as it has quite often this year.

As a result, I have become quite intimately familiar with Vidar's thermal personality. Part of this is that I like to listen pretty loud. Part is also that this amp really sounds best when it is warm - it seems to really come alive at about 110F (measured on the fins in the back, the warmest spot). I consider 115-125F to be its "happy place" sonically. Jason mentioned that the protection cuts in at 85C (185F), but that is measured internally. In my experience it shuts itself down in the 140s (measured as above). The fan unit I have been using does an excellent job keeping it right in the sweet spot, varying the speed as required, almost like it is made for it. As it is, I can live happily with things as they are, only having to limit my listening sessions on very hot days, but two of them just is not going to work the way things are now.

But, I have a plan..... A few years ago I had several big ass servers running in my home office and they presented a similar problem. My solution at that time was to simply run a portable A/C unit in that room to add supplemental cooling, and it worked great. I'm thinking if I do that then two Vidars becomes a practical possibility. Only thing is, I need another electrical circuit in the bedroom if I am going to do that (and if I am going to go to the trouble of running one, I'll run two so each Vidar can be on a seperate breaker as well). So that is now my tentative plan for this winter. I expect I can probably run two Vidars safely in the winter just by closing off the heat vents as required so I may pick one up as soon as the snow flies.

I can sure see why it would be a whole lots easier to just listen to headphones instead though......

 

I've had my vidar since may, I too find it sounds best after maybe 4 hours on. When I get home from work I usually fire it up and sleep around 6 hours and then listen. I'm in a 3rd floor bedroom, the ac unit in the window has just barely been able to make it manageable. There's been a lot of days in the 90's and a rack full of hot gear this summer. I have a small fan I point at my rack and forget about it while I'm in the recliner, non issue for me. I've never measured the vidar's temp or anything and it has never kicked out from thermal protection or anything running PSB image T6 towers. It really does sound better warm though not that it sounds bad otherwise but it's great when it's hot.

 

So, I ordered a second Vidar yesterday.

After a particularly hot summer, the temps here have fallen off a cliff the last couple weeks, we went from way above normal to way below normal in the space of days. A/C is off, furnace is on. One Vidar is now not enough to keep the upstairs warm on it's own LOL.

I'm no expert on electronics in general or amplifiers in particular so I'm interested to see how this works out. I'm going on the assumption that there is a relationship between total power output and heat generated that should remain fairly constant ie if I run Vidar mono making 400 watts into 4 ohms it should have about the same thermal profile as running 200 watts x 2 into 4 ohms. I still don't get how it goes from 100wpc into 8 ohms stereo to 400 wpc into 8 ohms mono - I've owned bridgeable amps in the past that would double thier power, but 4 times is a nice trick. Does this mean that a mono Vidar will "try" to make 800 watts into a 4 ohm load? I can certainly see how nothing good would come of that......

Anyway, I don't need more volume than I have now, so even the 3 dB from double the power is really overkill in my small room. But ideally, if I can run two Vidars comfortably making, say, 300 watts mono into 4 ohms, I would expect them to run cooler individually than a single unit at full output, and the 50% power increase is just a bonus. I'll just have to be mindful with the volume knob.

Of course if the total amount of output power goes up, so too is going to be the amount of heat created. This should not be a problem for the next 6 months or so. As per my last post this is not likely going to work well next summer though, so we are still working on plans for that.

Will post some more listening impressions soon.

 

P = V^2 / R, when you bridge the amps, you're doubling the voltage swing which quadruples the power (assuming the supply can handle the increased current demands, which the Vidar does in this case). However, the Vidars don't seem to be rated for bridged operation into 4 ohms so you could run into the current protection if you're not careful. Ambient temperature won't change the fact that the power transformer is only rated for 600 VA...

 

Thanks. I know the folks at Schiit don't officially support running Vidar into 4 ohms mono (or 2 ohms stereo), but there seems to be a fair number of people out there on the interwebs doing so successfully. The official line is if you do this and listen at high volumes you may trip the protection. I know the amp has both thermal and overcurrent protection (to protect it from people like me LOL). I think I have a good enough handle on things to hopefully not be doing that too often, if at all.

 

I believe unofficial numbers are 500-600w balanced into 2 ohms, which you likely won't need.

 

You should consider modifying the xovers in the Maggies to allow biamping. Pretty simple procedure, you can (should) exchange components with higher quality caps/coils/resistors, and they'll sound (much) better than running bridged amps into mono. You'll need another matching set of speaker cables of course. This is from my experience with MMGs and Hafler DH-200s wih the bridged option operable with a toggle switch so it made for easy comparisons.

As a test, when you have your amps bridged and hooked up, and have enjoyed the new bass and 'weight', pay attention to the distortion and clarity in the mids and highs and see if you find them lacking. If not, you're good to go! If so, see above. Sounds like you're having fun, keep that going!

 

I've considered doing some mods to the Maggies in the future, and if I am going to do that then it would make sense to make allowances for the possibility of bi-amping. For now I am going to leave that on my potential future projects list, along with getting my old turntable up and running again, and possibly a set of Mye stands. Upgrades are always fun, for sure, but the important thing is the music keeps making me smile, and there has been no shortage of that lately, that is for sure