Fostex TH-909 Open Back

Saw this on a moon audio ad, and found this announcement from Fostex (in Japanese): https://www.fostex.jp/20180810/12027/

 

Moon Audio has this listed for $1800, the TH-900 is going for $1200 right now on Amazon. 50% increase on price for what seems like the same driver and overall design. The TH-900 was never really that closed to begin with, so I wonder what more air would do to it. Hopefully they tuned it to be more balanced and less sharp. I tried the 900s after really enjoying the TH-X00s but ended up not liking them as much since they were way too aggressive for my tastes.

 

And less urushi lacquer!

x2 on this. Despite appearances the whole line might as be open since they leak so much and have next to no isolation.


Also part of me wants to say that Fostex decided that they need to compete with the Auteur.

 

I feel like the TH-900's claim to fame is that deep sub boost.

Not sure how that can be maintained in an open-back design if the driver is the same. I guess smoother treble and more present mids are the most we can hope for?

 

Not gonna lie. I hope someone here tries it with a ZDS. Could it be a better pairing then the TH-900?

 

Honestly I fricking love the TH900 save for the hot (not the pleasant kind) treble. Er, that and the even-more-sucked-out-than-the-HP3s midrange. If Fostex does anything to alleviate those I'll be very interested, but I remember talk elsewhere of these saying they were aiming for the same tuning?

Oh, found it: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?profile-posts/13244/

 

I can confirm that adding more air to a th900 driver will significantly boost the low end. Specifically 30-50hz.

The ear chamber is decently sealed so you will not lose subbass (you will gain subbass and mid).

The way these drivers scale with being open and a properly sealed baffle is fun. Just remove the cups off a th900 and see.

 

I wonder how they're justifying the extra $600 over the TH-900 (or extra $1400 over the TH-X00) if the tuning is supposedly similar. Personally I found the jump from the X00 to the 900 a bit disappointing since it regressed on a few points, namely the treble.

People said that about the Klipsch HP-3 and the Auteur, but the two are way too different in sound profile to really be rivals. The only real similarity is that they somewhat resemble each other. Given that the HP-3 uses a Fostex driver, I think the 909 won't be comparable to the Auteur sound wise.

Honestly, the cynic in me sees this as a move on Fostex's part to try and move excess TH-900 stock after the TH-X00 stole the thunder from the rest of their lineup. They made some limited edition TH-900s in blue/green at higher markup just a few months back as well. So why not grab more cash by releasing something "new" and increasing the price?

 

Who was it that said Foster was the only company churning out biocellulose headphone drivers nowadays? It was someone on here, can't put my finger on whom it might have been and the search isn't helping. Gah. Anyway, I like biocellulose drivers in general*, apart from a tendency to have a bit too much energy in the upper registers for even my Beyer-attuned ears— using thinner voice coils with more windings, as in the Eikon and Auteur, is supposed to help, but that ain't exactly a weekend project unless you're brave and know what you're doing.

TH900 v HP3 is a game of trade-offs so I'd say it makes for a good comparison. The Klipsch has the better tonal balance (the treble still bites, just with fewer teeth, and the bass feels less like I'm being punched, which may not necessarily be a good thing for some) with more engaging vocals and sound localisation. Better acoustic guitar on the Klipsches, basically, more body in the music. The TH900 slaughters the HP-3 in clarity and bass texture though, and soundstage too though that's more a function of the midrange being pushed further back and can be a matter of taste. Near as I could tell spending half a day with the both in pretty okay store conditions, both have similar resolution with the Fostex having more pronounced trailing decays.

You get some noticeable cuppy reverb on the Fostex playing Sinatra, (Hannah) Reid, and Bublé, among others, that I hope the TH909 sorts out— the Klipsch has less of this than the TH900. Of course, if it has treble as excitable as on its predecessor one might be hard-pressed to justify the premium pricing. Also, yes, the reduced amount of precious metal foil and pretty, red lacquer is a bit of a bummer.

P.S.
I tried listening to the X00 without cups for the first time in a few months just now. Can confirm bass does rumble. A helluva lot. )


*AudioQuest stuff needn't apply, just a bit too warm for my tastes there.

 

They said in the TH909 pdf that they want to keep the TH-900 sound signature, so this one will be another good looking treble fucked bass cannon.

Source:
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/pdfs/TH909_Preliminay Information.pdf

"While keeping the same sound characteristic, we further expanded and increased it's sound field by adopting open type and adjusting the acoustic circuit"

 

I strangely have a tiny bit of experience with an open backed TH900.

Basically, @Eudis Fernandes modded a Denon D2000 to be open back, then swiped in the TH900 drivers. With just that done, it sounded quite a bit more balanced, but still had issues with the treble being a bit sharper than it needed to be and slightly metallic depending on the amp. That's inherent to the driver though.

It did the HP-3's sound better than the HP-3 did, and was pretty competitive with the Auteur. Maybe even better in some areas (bass had more texture and body to it, and the soundstage was a bit bigger.)

 

speaking of those. I did refine them further to help reduce that damn edge. Pleather pads really help with this versus genuine leather and suede oddly enough.

 

@Eudis Fernandes, did you try using the TH-X00/TH-500RP pads? I found those to be much more pleasant than the stock TH-900 pads since they tamed the treble quite a bit. There's a hard/stiff lining stitched into them that I think makes a difference. The TH-610 pads have something similar in them, but a bit more pliable.

 

I have th610 pads and no, I prefer not to use them due to some issues they introduce for my goal. Primarily a reduction on the (((openess))) of the mod. I use Zack's ori pads (Props to his pads imo would recommend). Luckily the trade-offs of using non Thx00/Th500rp (quick trivia, TH500rp Pioneered this pads with EMU TEAKS, before being introduced into other regions other than Singapore, picked them up second) is offset by being fully open back (way more open than pictured above).

Normally Ori/Eikon/Th900/ETC pads introduce a dip around 800hz which, to some can throw off the mids. Backwave phase cancellation is such a bitch.

The downside to Thx00, in my mod, is the treble is pulled too far back and looses the airiness I achieved with it. I also introduced some other mods to make the mid range extremely consistent with minor dips compared to stock implementations that also appear in a stock + open back cups.

 

Here's measurements.

HD800 is yellow.

This is prior to pleather pads tho so treble is a little more even.



Scaling is db
I was a bit lazy and this is somewhat old. It's all I have on my phone.

 

Is there a US release date for these yet?

Edit: Nevermind, Moon-Audio say November 2018.

 

FR is its only achilles' heel, @Lyer25. EQ it to make it more balanced-out. This is one of my most fav cans to date.

 

I have to agree, but there FR is far enough removed from my preferences that I instantly nixed it from consideration, haha. Both the X00EB and HP-3 also have slightly weird FR (latter far moreso than the former), but these are far more tolerable. I'm still trying to change my position on EQ but I'd really rather try putzing around with mechanical mods if at all possible (that needn't involve building a new headphone from scratch, at least )

EDIT: auto correct hates me

 

I love the Loki for what it is. Seems like a match made in heaven with the th900. Much prefer it to mechanical mod.

I am on friendly terms with auto-correct. But touchscreen loathes my guts

 

I think the 900 is a good complementary HP to a more detail-oriented open-back like the HD800 or Utopia; it has that nice bass kick/thump. But I can see why some wouldn't like using the 900s as their go-to HP due to the V-shaped FR.

It'll be interesting to see how much the bass response increases with the 909s, and if soundstage and imaging gets improved as well. It's definitely on my list of must-listen at RMAF.