The All Purpose Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Advice Threads' started by purr1n, Sep 26, 2015.

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  1. priamXus

    priamXus New

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    What’s SBAF?
    Think I’ll get a good 3.5mm to stereo RCA and call it the day until a good DAC with a decent USB implementation shows then, although, I thought plain and simple Modi 3 was ok on the USB side.

    And I repeat myself. I won’t ever buy an Eitr or Wyrd.
     
  2. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    You're making a "principle" decision out of something there's no principle to make decision from. But whatever.

    Have to point out, Eitr is the usb section of the bifrost/gungnir/Yggdrasil, and its not in the modi because it doesn't fit, taking up more than half the available space.

    It's also better than the usb section of basically every small chap DAC*, and some 15k$ DACs too. But if makes you feel good, go ahead xD

    * with the notable exception of the soekris 1321, which has a good usb section and is within your budget used, but has poor sinergy with the Valhalla, being a somewhat dry tonality DAC on top of a somewhat dry amplifier -> gobi desert.
     
  3. priamXus

    priamXus New

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    What’s SBAF?
    Well I just don’t get it then, how come that the Bifrost à Multibit Gen5 is bad then? Every single review except one recommends Modi 3 above several DACs without the use of anything in the middle.

    Honestly I never saw the usage of a decrapifier in any other brand, plus the Modi 3 uses DC power and does not have capacitors, which contributes to a clean sound, in the circuitry, so, how should I benefit from it IF I have a clean output?

    Edit: first you recommended Modi 3 no buts. Then you call it trash and modified the answer. I understand less.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  4. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    He’s recommending Modi Multibit + Eitr, which is better regarded by some than older Bifrost Multibit.

    There’s more than just different USB going on when it comes to these DACs. There have likely been silent revisions to these DACs within the last 6-12 months. People who have the ears here have heard this, and measurements appear to back this up.

    The older Bifrost Multibit was not liked as much as Modi Multibit. If you’re using USB, adding Eitr to Modi Multibit puts it on a pretty even playing field (from a USB input perspective) with older Bifrost Multibit, since Eitr is essentially just an outboard GEN 5 USB card.

    This reason older Bifrost Multibit was not liked as much as Modi Multibit was due to the DAC implementation (perhaps the analog output stage), not the USB implementation.

    However rumors are that newer Bifrost Multibit (within the last 6-9 months) is better now, and may step above the Modi Multibit + Eitr combo.

    So bottom line - if the Bifrost Multibit you’re looking at it 6-9 months old or newer, you have a good chance of getting a newer one with the latest silent revisions. If not, then people generally recommend Modi Multibit + Eitr.

    My personal recco is, whichever one you buy, get one less than a year old to have a chance to catch some of the latest revisions no matter what one you get. And if you get Modi Multibit and plan to use USB, definitely get Eitr.

    Chances are Schiit will officially announce new versions of many of their DACs next year with the newest USB. But of course that will only be available on brand new units, costing brand new prices.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  5. priamXus

    priamXus New

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    What’s SBAF?
    Yep. My point was that even if I’m getting a second hand Bifrost, the price is just a little more above the Multibit + Eitr.

    On the other hand he was recommending me at first Modi 3 and no Eitr, then he modified the answer, added the Eitr and said that the modi was trash.

    And finally and being brutally honest I prefer to buy no DAC at all knowing all this, even if I check the measures only in the Schiit site, sound aside, the output of the Modi 3 seems brutally clean, still I don’t see the point of Eitr on the Modi 3, I do on the Multibit. There’s too much misinformation between reviewers and users, therefore, I prefer to wait for the new units like you said.
     
  6. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    @priamXus please consider future upgradeability. Since you stated you will never buy an Eitr you really need to consider just buying a new Bifrost Multibit at $600. You will have a five year warranty, the guarantee of latest firmware updates, and a USB board that can be swapped out when Schiit introduces their new USB implementation later this year. Which by all reports will make a significant improvement in sound quality over USB.

    If you buy a Modi Multibit you will then own a DAC that will not be upgradeable and lose its value overnight. So maybe pass on the Loki and just treat yourself to a new Bifrost. You will have a very fine DAC you can then enjoy for many years and upgrade as Schiit makes improvements in the boards.

    Please watch the following video. It has been posted before so apologies to the mods but you may not have seen it and really should watch it to get an idea where Schiit is heading this year:

     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  7. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    The DAC can only deal with the signal it starts with, and the cleanest and lowest jitter USB signal it gets, the better. This is why Gen 5 and Eitr exist - to electrically isolate the signal, and apply high precision reclocking, for a more than reasonable price considering the competition. And every impression I’ve read, and my own experience, says that Eitr is a clear improvement, and should improve both Modi 3 and Modi Multibit from this perspective.

    Also, measurements are done in controlled environments/setup, with controlled variables and test tones, and do not tell you the actual story of how the DAC will sound with music. Most prefer the Multibit sound over the Delta-sigma sound (although not all) even though D/S DACs always measure better. Most of the “bad stuff” found in DAC measurements is simply inaudible. DACs are not headphones or speakers.

    Your decision to wait is fine, but honestly a good deal on a used unit is not a bad way to go either, since Schiit stuff tends to have good resale value, your loss would likely be minimal if you flipped it when or before the new versions are announced. They may actually be a while, we really don’t know.

    The problem I have with the new units is, being from Canada, the US exchange rate, shipping and import taxes are brutal. And shipping the DAC back and forth for an upgrade is not the best either. Hence why I would suggest a new-ish used one to start with. If you like it, you can wait for the new ones to be announced and splurge then.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  8. aamefford

    aamefford Nothing like chamberpot coffee

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    My 2 cents on @priamXus dilemma:

    1) OG Bifrost MB with gen5 seems just a bit steep at $465 unless that’s CAD.
    2) Multibit and Eitr at $315 is a good value. Maybe even a bit more if you can get a newer modi mb.
    3) I had the OG modi mb and Eitr. Eitr is a noticeable improvement over usb straight into the modi mb. Well worth the price to me.
    4) I had the Bifrost MB gen5 at the same time. It was anywhere from dead heat to the Bifrost being ever so slightly better for me. Not everyone agrees.
    5) I found a nice price on an OG Gungnir Multibit gen5 and sold the Bifrost, even thought it was black and the Gungnir Multibit is silver...
    6) I bought a raspberry Pi with a a Hifiberry digi-Pro board and volumio. I run that to the Gungnir Multibit. I now only use usb when I have to.
    7) I’d like to get a Loki, but just for fun. If my budget were constrained, Eitr before Loki, if using anything schiit without gen5. Good SQ Ed’d is better than moderate SQ EQ’d

    Summary:
    Budget choice is modi mb and Eitr. Get the Loki later.

    Form factor choice is Bifrost MB with gen5. This would likely be my choice. The modi form factor is a bit small for my taste, plus upgrades.

    If budget rules, go for the modi and Eitr. Buy used, and it won’t cost much if anything to sell and upgrade.

    An RPi with a digital out hat and coax is around $100, and sounds great. Might be a good option to the Eitr, and with a usb drive or nas can be your player as well. A tiny bit fiddly though.

    Ok, $2, not 2 cents. I got carried away.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  9. zfisch

    zfisch New

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    What is the average asking price for a Sennheiser HD 540 Reference Gold with the original wood box? In pretty good condition.
    The person is asking 165 USD.
    Thanks for the info!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  10. bixby

    bixby Friend

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  11. psuKinger

    psuKinger Facebook Friend

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    Quick question for a "relative newb" who still has much to learn. I've had my Schiit Jotunheim (with built-in 4490 D/S dac) for a little less than 6 months now. It's my first *real* piece of headphone equipment. Occasionally (and especially this morning), it sounds like "the record skips" on my music. But obviously, it's not a record skipping; my Phone is playing my FLAC files via my Plex server, and is connected to a USB-C-to-A adapter, which is connected to a Schiit USB-B-to-A cable, which is connected to my Jot's DAC.

    The question is regarding this "skipping," it's hard to describe and maybe I'm not using the right words, but sometimes if it happens at the right time, it'll sound like the bass drum hits too early or something...


    Is what I'm hearing the "jitter" that I've read other people mention around here? Is this what Schiit Gen 5 USB/Eitr is to address? Because if so, "I get it now"... it really takes me out of the moment and breaks the experience.
     
  12. priamXus

    priamXus New

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    What’s SBAF?
    I’m in Canada too. The price of the Bifrost is $430 (USD) but the seller is splitting the shipment, that’s why the $465.

    Regarding about the Eitr I’m aginst it. Never had a problem before with any DAC, no jitter or noise never (Except once with a Fiio Q5 but it was hiss)

    I just don’t believe in my experience that I can justify spending $320 more next to a Modi 3 to get a “better” sound due a bad USB implementation. Even when I jumped from a PHA-3 to a TZ-ZH1ES some years ago I could not justify it unless I really needed extra inputs, bells and whistles.

    Really, the only time I experienced jitter was from an USB SoundBlaster more than 12 years ago. If you tell me with a Modi Multibit I’ll have hitter or noise isolation problem it’s a no go for me. I was really going to buy one in first place, but then I started reading that it’s almost like a must to have an Eitr with it. For me I can’t justify that.

    Thanks for all your answers till now really :)
     
  13. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Not believing in jitter is like not believing in the colour green.

    Its there, you can measure it, you can hear the difference.

    You can say the sky is yellow at when it's blue and I can wear trousers on my head and claim I'm napoleon but it don't make either of those things true.

    You might want to look at your preconceptions, because it has nothing to do with noise or hiss or static. If a digital signal was so out of sync as to make *that*, anything and everything will just drop the packets.
     
  14. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    That's not likely jitter, probably more a problem with your network. However, Eitr and removing all the USB adapters might help with what you're experiencing (what's usually called "dropouts"). Jitter tends to manifest itself as weird phase and transient response anomalies, not full-fledged cessation of data transfer on most modern transports and DACs. That being said, horrid jitter (>1ms) will likely cause cause signal locking issues.
     
  15. priamXus

    priamXus New

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    What’s SBAF?
    Sorry, maybe I never had such a bad DAC or USB port. Like I said. I believe in the jitter. It exists. It was something more than common years ago in literally shit stuff.

    Don’t change my words. I never said that It does not exists or it’s not audible. I said I never heard it in the stuff I used to have (Except one time in very low budget stuff 12 years ago)

    EDIT: try to not change your answer again ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  16. famish99

    famish99 Friend

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    It's sounding more like you've never heard what a good transport sounds like or not had a chain resolving enough to hear the difference. It's usually not a question of a bad USB port as much as pretty much most USB implementations suck.
     
  17. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    So true, it’s easy to listen for years with a gimped chain and not realize it when we don’t know what we’re missing. Though sometimes ignorance is bliss.
     
  18. RedFuneral

    RedFuneral Facebook Friend

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    I'm looking to move my system in a more forgiving/relaxed direction as I mostly listen to zero-budget black metal albums from Bandcamp. My current system is a Metrum Flint -> Schiit Ragnarok -> Beyerdynamic T70. I've recently traded away an Apex Sangaku and lost my Hifiman Sundara to a scammer. The Flint stays, the amp & headphones I'm willing to move on. My budget would be $700 + the value of the Rag, I am open to 'downgrading' and pocketing the difference.

    The Sundara/Sangaku combo was my first attempt to make a clean break from my usual aggressive/fast ideal and it would be fair to say my priority now is a pretty coloration over raw technicalities. The Sundara became too veiled at low volumes, otherwise meh. All planars? I liked the Sangaku's romantic coloration but it ultimately lacked in bloom. As another reference I used to own a vintage set of STAX SR-5NB and I may more be looking for that kind of ethereal floaty flavor than the gooey tube stereotype. I've looked at the Atticus/Aeolus but bass emphasis combined with strong dynamics gives me pause. I'm also considering OTL but I've only heard the breed through an impedance mismatch(Apex Teton -> Ultrasone Edition 12.) Bloated but as smooth & effortless as the STAX which is why the experience stuck in my mind.

    In general I'm looking for direction and suggestions of things I could buy used, get my bearings, and pass on with minimal loss. I feel that I should start with cheaper components until I know exactly which direction to pursue.
     
  19. RedFuneral

    RedFuneral Facebook Friend

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    I had a similar issue when I used a 20ft printer cable in my system. You may be out of USB spec with your adapters in the chain, and considering audio lacks error correction it'll be more susceptible to obvious faults than data transfer. That's probably your answer there but before you buy anything make sure your phone isn't running out of processing power with background apps and try some music stored on the phone to verify its not something to do with the server/network connection.

    Just to clarify, the phone is plugged into the DAC and the music is stored on the server? I had to re-read your post a couple of times because it didn't make sense that you'd use a USB-C port on your server. I was assuming you were using the phone as a remote control for streaming from there.
     
  20. priamXus

    priamXus New

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    What’s SBAF?
    That’s exactly what I said several messages before. And that’s exactly my point. Seems that Schiit has bad usb implementations and they force you to pay extra to “fix” it. I thought that Modi 3, because of several reviews, USB was ahead of Multibit and the rest without Gen5.

    Yep totally agree. Ignorance is a bliss sometimes.
    Sorry for your experiences with bad usb implementations. Like I said, I experienced them, in the past. Seems you read half of the things I said but you have a big mouth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
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