SBAF DAC Talk II

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Maxx134, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm not saying that he isn't, but why is he an eccentric genius? Because Paul said he was? How does Thanos-like genius-level intellect translate into making shit that sounds good? I'm not saying he can't make a great sounding product, but I'm sick of tired of "genius-level" people saying this and that and people just sucking it up and believing everything. Sometimes they are wrong, like Sean Olive's consumer frequency response curves, which have caused more misunderstanding and misapplication than he intended.

    When we worship people who have marketed themselves as smart or highly credible experts, that's when all progress stops. This is an example of the nonsense I have to deal with:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/adgzjv/how_to_interpret_csd_and_impulse_response/

    One of these days, I'm going to write a scholarly article or two for AES, maybe with the help of @zerodeefex, @ultrabike, or @schiit. Solely to burnish my credentials. After that, I will tear down those credentials by printing out the Olive curve on a piece of paper and shit, that is really shit on it in a YT video.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  2. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Someone should send a DS with the latest firmware to someone as to set a benchmark in the community, stamped with approval from "the uppers," so we can finally once and for all either love or hate PSA --- as a community :D
     
  3. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    Until the next firmware is out.

     
  4. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    The DS and PWD are two different dacs from a hardware perspective and should be given different evaluations. Pick the latest firmware at the time and stop fixating on it. At best, the firmware changes are equivalent to A1 vs. A2. At worst they're even more subtle because we all are smart enough to know there isn't a day-and-night difference with these things. Some tweak a bit further or closer to one's idea of 'right' and that's perfectly acceptable. This fixation on firmware changes makes me believe that some people here actually think they make a substantial difference, otherwise it'd be a non-issue.

    The point still stands that very few people have actually heard the DS and reported back with comparisons to other dacs. Trying to get one into more hands can only be helpful to the community, even if the result steers people away from it, after all it's certainly not a perfect device.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It's $6k. Maybe under $3k used. I blew the treasure chest on x2 pro DACs and extended my own money to the community funds to do so. The coffers are now replenshing and should shoot back up when these pro DACs are sold. (I do want to extend the Convert-2 loaner to more people - Friends).

    When funds become available, I'd rather look at other gear, gear that is accessible to mere mortals, unless popular vote says we really want to have the PSA DS DAC as the next loaner. My experience with audiophile brands has been lackluster with some exceptions, e.g. Bricasti, McIntosh, etc.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Tell ya what. Someone here call Paul and have him send me one. Any SBAF member, even a rando, should feel empowered to do this. That will force me not to be a dick who said horrible things about him on the Internet and have to explain myself to him in person. I'm honest with my bias, but I've never let that get the better of me when shit is good. This has been historically demonstrated. Prove me wrong, and if I am wrong, then I will eat it. I'll even agree that if I don't like it, I won't say anything publicly about it - but all bets off for other people who I may invite to me house to hear it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  7. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    So he donates this stuff free of charge?
    That’s my biggest beef with PSA - their prices are crazy. I know they run on the dealer model, but come on. I am curious about their DACs but DSJr is as high as I would ever compare to Yggdrasil, and only because it has a built in streamer and preamp - although word is the preamp is not good. Apparently they consider their best non-crazy-priced preamp to be in their cheapest DAC, the Stellar (which is a last gen Sabre chip that appears to be a recycled Nuwave DSD DAC with a ‘gain cell’ preamp thrown in.) As a DSJr owner I would be pretty pissed actually that they supposedly put a superior preamp technology in a DAC half the price of the DSJr, let alone the DS.
     
  8. famish99

    famish99 Friend

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  9. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Most better audiophile dealer sold stuff is incredibly overpriced for what you actually get in terms of sound, features, and usability. Nothing PS Audio competes with even the 1000 something dollar d to a boxes with a pot, headamp, and pre. The 2000 something dollar ones with more features: adc, sicko clocks, adat, Dante, or mic pres really make them look like jokes.

    The decline of the music industry bubble back to late 70s and early 80s levels and the rise of daw based project and home studios beyond Tascam PortaStudio and Alesis ADAT let the guys making the best gear to target that market. They had to as the gigs of making hella overpriced everything and massive consoles as professional tools were over. Even a cheap Cirrus codec chip interface now has far better sound quality than 99% of 90s gear.

    The music industry of course will say piracy did them in but just looking at the numbers shows that most of the growth was selling people digital higher margin CDs of stuff they already owned. Fraud, white collar crime, and killing the cd single peaked the industry financially around 1995-1996 and then the internet called them on their crap as people could just download (now YouTube. Normal people don’t even bother with Spotify or Apple streaming to get their fix of greatest hits) the should’ve been singles off of disposable pop albums with 5 minutes of killer and 40 minutes of filler absolutely no one wants to listen to.

    Dealer sold overpriced junk that’s not a Bricasti or McIntosh is actually getting more expensive and worse (“more special”) sounding like the DCS Ring bleh and all the NOS and discrete resistor junk while the interfaces and multifunction boxes keep getting better. They have no way to sell stuff worse than a Modi except with bling and mush.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I hate that someone linked this to me because my responses were a waste of my time. It was linked to me by a person with the best of intentions who was writing a report for school on CSDs and had good questions.

    I need to remove Reddit from my DNS, or at least block the headphones section. It started out with so much promise but ended up as an extension of objectivist religion and quotations from the "holy" men (who wrote AES papers on the obvious - stuff worthy of community college) featured on IF.

    I am sad that so many young kids who are smart, but still not quite smart enough yet, just read and regurgitate without trying to understand and explore and do. I guess this is the state of academia these days. On the other hand, it's great to see people buying EARS and doing their own thing.

    ^ I might just give the EARS a Golden Schlong Award along with the above statement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  11. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Precedence was set by Fletcher of Mercenary Audio many years ago at an AES convention. The Mercenary booth displayed an art object consisting of an Alesis ADAT and Mackie 1604 impaled on a vertically oriented spike called Shit on a Stick. Needless to say the Alesis representatives were not amused. They demanded the display be removed and Fletcher booted from the AES floor. Greg Mackie's response was quite different. He talked with Fletcher and said something to the effect of "You paid for it, you can do what you want with it. Bet it still works."
     
  12. nickwin

    nickwin Acquaintance

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    If Im finder the Modi MB (early 2016 model) a little dark/rolled off with my current setup and want little more air, what's a good cheap-ish alternative? Modi 3? Gungnir DS (used)? A new Modi MB? How much difference is there between the current Modi MB and the early ones? Is it enough to warrant selling an old one to buy a new one?
     
  13. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    Do it.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Modi 3 or SDAC. New Modi MB is just slightly less dark, not significant. Gungnir DS is slightly dark too, or at least I wouldn't call it obviously airy.
     
  15. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    I recently had the chance to compare Gungnir DS with my Gungnir Multibit A2 and was surprised to find the DS a bit warmer/darker. I guess my expectation came from earlier reports of Gungnir DS being lean/harsh relative to OG Gungnir Multibit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  16. skem

    skem Friend

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    Some of you have probably heard DACs that sound etched. I always thought that this was a tonality issue: too much treble. I’m listening to such an (anonymous) DAC tonight and I’m wondering if treble is not actually the issue. Covering the tweeters doesn’t help, for example. My friend and I both felt like it must to be something else. My friend asked if it was pre-ringing, but that sounds like a woosh on transients... that is not the problem. But it gets to the question: is there an ethereal can’t-quite-put-my-finger-on-it effect in DACs that generate an unpleasantness that gives a sense of too much attack, or an etched quality, resulting in quick listening fatigue?

    I have a feeling many people on SBAF are obsessed with attack, so it may be the wrong crowd for this question—but probably a few know what I mean.
     
  17. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Cymbals and highs are harsh, to the point that they can induce fatigue after long listening periods. At least for me.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Hmmm. This DAC unpleasantness is difficult to quantify. My TT (primary listening) is more incisive with sharper and stronger attacks than the Yggdrasil, on the level of the Convert-2, but yet at the same time more liquid and less grainy, even compared to the A2 which is much better in this regard than the A1.

    One huge qualifier that I always forget to mention is that I do not run USB. No Eitr, no Gen 5. I've been using CD transports for a while or uber USB to SPDIF converters before that going back to PWD, Gungnir DS, etc. USB is grainy and/or has a hazy fog.

    It doesn't matter what SBAF likes or does not like as long as members can describe relative differences and can appreciate them. There is other stuff too, like amp and speakers/headphones that are going to play a role.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  19. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    After getting the A2 upgrade on my Gungnir MB, I can say that I like it, but I don't know if I like it better than the OG version that I had. I tend to like a slightly warm sound and the original had a very refined upper end that never bit my ears. What I can say for sure is that it is more incisive then the OG version. If I could afford it, I would probably go for an A2 Yggdrasil.
     
  20. skem

    skem Friend

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    How would you differentiate Convert-2’s sharp attack vs Mytek ΔΣ grating
    harshness? Is that “grain”, treble, or something else?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019

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