The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

I don't disagree with you on that re merchandising and the newest movies, but there were definitely concerns, IMO, that over rode telling a Star Wars story.

 

Such as?

 

Such as whatever had them tell TLJ instead of a Starwars story.

 

That’s not an answer. You’re arguing that there was something that was neither a merchandise nor a narrative concern that overrode the storytelling in TLJ. What is that thing?

 

That's not what I'm arguing.

I'm arguing that for some reason Rian Johnson decided to make TLJ instead of what I would consider to be an actual Starwars movie. My best guess was that that decision actually was out of some narrative concern, just not a good one, IMO.

But again I do agree that the movie didn't seem to be made as a pure merchandising vehicle, at least.

 

Exactly.

 

All the recent SW films are terrible, I nearly walked out of the first one but my father was enjoying it. The fact that they are well reviewed baffles me. Film making is as much an art form as music or photography and the acceptance of this rubbish as even "decent" is an insult to all the incredible films being made today.

I honestly feel like they are just well designed cash factories for the Netflix generation to consume alongside all their Marvel films/shows/whatever. It's a shame because the last 5 or so years of Star Wars media expansion has pretty much killed off the franchise for me as a fond memory. I grew up with the first films and adored them.

 

Am I part of the “Netflix generation” if I only stream British murder mysteries from the 90s?

 

This is really just another way of saying you didn’t like the movie. Rian Johnson set out to make a Star Wars movie and he did so. You may not like his decisions but it’s still Star Wars.

I think Zack Snyder is a creepy, talentless hack. But I wouldn’t argue that Man of Steel isn’t a Superman movie, or that Batman v Superman isn’t a Batman and Superman movie, or that Justice League isn’t a Justice League movie. They’re terrible movies but they are superhero movies for those particular heroes.

 

By that logic, if I were to make a 2-hour movie about Vader’s morning routine, starting with him getting out of his tank and taking a smelly shit and then bitching at length about the Executor’s lowest-bid-installed HVAC systems — that’d be a Star Wars movie, too, right? I mean, I’d make sure to put the scroll in the beginning and license the Williams music and everything.

And at least it won’t be “just fan service” (goodness forbid)!

 

That's a pretty personal definition, the sequels aren't Star Wars to me. Instead to me they're a messed up misinterpreted butchered shallow SJW Disney cash-in version of Star Wars.

Let's go on. To me Man of Steel is an angsty misinterpretation about what makes Superman Superman. If Batman is a Dark Knight "because he can take it" then Superman is a Superhero Boy Scout because he can take it. That's what makes him great, he is good and he is willing to stand for trying to be good no matter what. When you give Superman doubt and angst and second thoughts you misunderstand what makes Superman Superman. There might be a storyline in there if you say that Superman starts out as angsty and confused and then becomes the Boy Scout, but then you actually have to follow through with that train of thought and DC didn't.

Let's go on some more. Batman v Superman may contain characters which resemble Batman and Superman, but they are not Batman and Superman, not really IMHO. The real Batman is a modern ninja who's a master of technology and tactics, he would never challenge Superman directly because he knows he would lose. If the real Batman perceived Superman as a treat he would plot in secret, come up with a superior plan, trap him in a confined space and neutralize him with kryptonite. End of. Superman is now in a kryptonite prison. No "fight me" dialogue, no foreshadowing, no warning. Just a professional taking care of business, that's Batman.

And Superman in that film? Buildings collapse, thousands die and Superman shrugs and walks away as if none of that happened. The Superman in Batman v Superman constantly looks around in an angsty way and seems to say "people die, such is life, not my problem". I'm sorry but that's not my Superman, the Superman I know would have gone on a Boy Scout rampage and put an end to the fighting with his overwhelming power one way or another because he felt that it was his duty to do so. If it's one thing we know from the comics it's that if you just make Superman sufficiently angry he's pretty much unbeatable and can end nearly any dispute in an instant should he feel like it.

There was fantastic potential in Batman v Superman because I can see Batman's perspective of "why should an alien govern earth and can we trust him?". There's a great story in there somewhere if the film had been about that, and only that. But that point became obfuscated by shit writing and trying to do too much at the same time. Not to mention Wonder Woman and Aquaman showing up towards the end.

And don't worry, we're still friends. Just giving you my take on the matter.

 

Let's just say, if i had to choose one movie to watch in my free time with others, tlj would be very very far from it. If others asked me to recommend a movie, the tlj would be very far from meriting a recommendation. That speaks for how the film is..... regardless of being a star wars fan or not. My opinions align with @BillOhio . If i had to summarize the film for someone.... in the way the film was structured/ made, i think the person listening would either tell me to stfu, or just zone out.

 

THREAD OF THE YEAR!!!

People arguing over imaginary characters that can have their history and futures dictated by a pen stroke or keyboard. Can’t please them all...

 

We're not arguing (well, I'm not), we're discussing. Because that's what fans do. Meanwhile you come in as the condescending troll that you always are pretending to sit on some penultimate wisdom. Why don't you actually contribute to the discussion or stay the f**k away for a change?

 

JK does what JK does, mang.

Penultimate wisdom: does that mean second to last wisdom?

 

it does, because if JK47 possessed ultimate wisdom he wouldn't be JK47. He'd be someone else.

Now, if all you don't mind we were discussing Star Wars in this thread.

 

You have to think of this stuff like Godfather III and 2010 the 2001 sequel. They just don't count. Yeah Lucas ruined Obi-Wan and Indiana Jones, Disney and Fox ruined Luke and Marvel characters, and now Paul Atreides is going to be wrecked for the third time. Stop paying money for this shit. You know this shit sucks. Stop being fools and wasting your time and money. See new movies and read books not written by David Baldacci, Tom Clancy, and Dan Brown.

 

I love the DC animated universe. I also recognize that Snyder’s versions of those characters are officially sanctioned by DC. I’ll never watch those movies again but I recognize that they’re valid (albeit shitty) interpretations of those characters.

 

The Dune remake is being helmed by Dennis Villeneuve who is having a bit of a run. Bladerunner 2049 was fantastic, Arrival and Sicario were very good. Unfortunately Roger Deakins isn't lensing Dune, which does give me a bit of pause but Greig Fraser has been turning out good work for years.