The Last Jedi Thread (with Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by ultrabike, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    They’re both laser sword movies AND social commentary. You are ignoring the social commentary but the commentary is there, has been remarked on by Lucas at length, and are essential elements and themes within the films. They are inescapably political, which is why I find the whole “keep your politics out of my Star Wars!” thing so farcical.
     
  2. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    I love Rogue One, saw it twice on opening weekend and will be first in line when these movie go back to being written and directed by somebody like John Favreau or the Rousseau Bros or Gareth Edwards or somebody who isn't making terrible movies with asinine nonsensical plot lines, dialogue, characters etc. while shitting on the source material that is the only rreason anybody gives a f**k about these movies in the first place.

    I really don't see Social Commentary in the OT and if it's there, somewhere between the laser sword fights and Leia's Gold Bikini, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't the Social Commentary that had millions of kids going to bed in pajamas that were covered in Yodas between sheets printed with Death Stars and At Ats.We did that because OT was good movies and they were cool. Prequels and TLJ didn't accomplish either one of those.

    Nobody bought Schindlers List actions figures or stood outside the theatres for days dressed like Hitler to see the Schindler's List II. If you're watching Starwars for social commentary then you're missing the point, as was Rian Johnson when he made that piece of shit of a movie.
     
  3. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    That's like saying Studio Ghilbi/Hayao Miyazaki movies are just cartoons, when in reality they have much deeper meaning/strong moral story that sail over kids heads. Adults that bring their children, or watch on their own, pick up the underlying story, and is a good reason why their movies appeal to a broad audience.
     
  4. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    OK, I'll bite, what is the social commentary of Starwars?
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Pretty sure they were Nazis.
    upload_2019-3-23_21-44-53.jpeg upload_2019-3-23_21-46-56.png

    And shock troops called Stormtroopers? Hmm?
    The only thing was missing Nazi-like iconography.

    What Lucas or Hollywood types say is malleable over time, suited as commentary to the current climate. It's like not Lucas doesn't make things up along the way for Star Wars while pretending he had everything already largely written. It was pretty clear that Ben Kenobi really did mean Darth Vader, as a separate person, killed Anakin in Star Wars - borrowing a theme from samurai or kung-fu movies. With Lucas, we are talking about a dude who goes back in time and rewrites history so that Han didn't shoot first.

    It can just as easily be said that the Rebels were Afghanistanis like Osama Bin Ladin fighting against the USSR, or that the dissolution of the Republic in the prequels is a parable to the ineffective governance of the US Congress today, or that the entire Separatist War thing was a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of Nine-Eleven and the Iraq War, or that Palps was Nixon.

    Here's another POV: American "imperialism" or projection of power is not always a bad thing. I'm glad my cousins in Taiwan aren't card-carrying members of the Communist Party of China.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  6. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Absolutely, Lucas changed things as he went. That’s part of the creative process and I have no problem with it. The thematic elements are far more consistent and strongly presented than individual plot points or lines of dialogue.

    If we want to dismiss what the creators of the story tell us about their intentions in telling the story, that’s a totally valid way to interact with art. And even if I disregard what Lucas has said, those themes I identified still come through loud and clear.

    It seems like you want to be right more than you want to actually have a discussion. I will never agree with you that Star Wars is just dumb entertainment without any deeper meaning. I’ll never agree that TLJ is a bad movie. I’ll always think that TLJ is an exceptional film, and one of the three most important Star Wars films yet made. If all you want to do is take a dump on the stuff in Star Wars you don’t like, then I’m content to end the conversation here.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    LOL, Bill just hates the new Star Wars movies with a passion.

    As an aside, my daughter, who hates all things Star Wars (new or old), actually liked Solo. So did I and the rest of the family. I brought the projector out for this one. The reason she liked Solo was that it didn't come off as Star War movie. The Star Wars thing was more of a dressing, the background. Solo was more of a caper or Western with the double-cross of a double-cross of a double-cross thing.

    Solo: An Ron Howard Film - Imagined by the Lego Movie guys

    Yeah, that's how I thought of it. I hate Ron Howard movies, but this was good.
     
  8. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    Same as the new Motley Crue biopic "The Dirt"... Hookers, blow, tragedy, and triumph.
     
  9. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    As long as people keep applauding the intellectual and artistic accomplishments of a movie that's as much of an absolutely stupidly written piece of shit as TLJ then I'll feel warranted in telling them what a piece of shit they're applauding. If that doesn't constitute an conversation, I'm OK with it.
     
  10. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    I don't think that Lucas was setting out to make a socio-political statement about Naziism. I think he was setting out to make a cool 'Good Guys vs. Bad Guys' movie and wanted his bad guys to be obvious as bad guys.
     
  11. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    TLJ, Solo and the mid-quel (Rogue One) are not that bad IMO. Specially considering the prequels which are total shit. But they are not exceptional. They are OK.

    As far a s Lucas, I don't think he has much to show for. I like Spielberg better. He is full of entertaining shit. Lucas doesn't do it for me. He is sort of boring.

    Regarding social justice and Nazis. It is what it is. It is easy to see for me that both Lucas and Spielberg bring the Nazi issue a bit. It's very likely a very sensitive issue for those dudes. But let me ask you this:

    Why do f'ing Ewoks seem to talk in Spanish from time to time? You and your Chief Chirpa can go f**k THEMSELVES LUCAS!

    I also feel for the black community: You and your Yar-Yar-Binks can go f**k THEMSELVES LUCAS!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    What better bad guy than the Nazi-archetype? This was the late 70s and early 80s where there were plenty of movies about Nazis: Force 10 from Navarone, Marathon Man, Indiana Jones, Sophie's Choice, Ilsa She Wolf of the SS, etc.
     
  13. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Solo was a ton of fun.
     
  14. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    C'mon, next your going to shit on the fantastic Ewok made for TV movies "Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure", and "Ewoks: The Battle for Endor", because Wicket is played by Warwick Davis, and you deem him too tall standing at 3'6" to be a true Ewok.

    Both those movies stole my imagination as a youngster more than ANH. They mirrored the plight of the Native's of many different continents fighting against a technologically superior invader.I was fascinated by Ewoks for years after watching those movies.
     
  15. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Even when I was at my peak with the OT SW movies, I did not watch the Ewok movies. LOL! I still have not watched them.

    I'm perhaps 40% Native American and 60% Iberian European. From what I gathered, the technological superiority of the invader was not that overwhelming. Smallpox perhaps was (it's said that it destroyed the military of the Aztec Empire and wreak havoc on the civilian population). I don't know the details, but the story we get, is likely not the real one.

    At least Rogue One had Diego Luna in Not-Ewok uniform. So again, f**k you Lucas!
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  16. Ardacer

    Ardacer Friend

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    The entire point of all of this is: push whatever positive message you want, do it right, respect the fans and your roots, and it'll be fine.
    No need to take a huge shit on literally everything almost everyone holds dear to "prove a point" or be fresh.
     
  17. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    Social commentary. A group of people with a shared niche interest — something which should promote mutual understanding — can’t agree whether a recent movie about space wizards and laser swords is a masterpiece, a dumpster fire, or just meh. None of the three factions even begins to understand the others’ points of view, and doesn’t really want to, as it would be detrimental to their self-identity. That sure leaves one with high hopes that people in the larger world, who have nothing in common, can come to agreements about larger problems.
     
  18. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Many of us feel Johnson did do it right, did respect the fans and the series roots. That’s our point.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    JJ Abrams will fix everything in the next installment.

    Cranky cynical hermit Luke will be retconned, reinterpreted, or further redeemed, maybe as a Force ghost. We will get scenes, possibly flashbacks of Luke in his prime kicking ass, which will satisfy what many fans wanted to see. The weird unsexual/sexual tension thing between Kylo and Rey will be resolved - maybe they will be siblings - Finn will be Rey's ultimate lover. The accelerated Force power development of Rey will be sort of logically explained. Rey won't be a rando - that was just Kylo gaslighting her. Rose will be Jar Jar'ed, relegated to the background. Purple haired general/admiral bitch already killed herself as a consequence of being the worst boss in the galaxy responsible for a toxic workplace environment where people on the same team don't talk to or trust each other. All will be well.

    Patience young Padawans.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  20. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    If Abrams made those changes that would be spitting in the face of fans.
     

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