The Motorcycle Thread

Me when I was a little more crazy than I am now:

 

Back to work today and the first message from a co-worker pops this up. - https://goo.gl/GVxvup

2.5ltr turbo-powered boxer from WRX with hub-centric steering. Uh...yes please!

 

An old friend that I miss a lot.

 

@Senorx12562

Those carburated kawa engines are awesome, so much power and so smooth. Sometimes they don't like wet and cold weather but it's worth it.

 

Tons o' grunt. The pod air fliters/airbox deletion along with much farting around with jetting and dyno runs had it pretty much spot on. It was about 124 hp-93lb/ft. at altitude. Forks and shocks were resprung and revalved, but it still was a bit of a flexible flyer, especially the swingarm. I wasn't racing the thing though. If I had kept it, I would've braced the swingarm and found a different seat or redone the stock pan; the seat was horrible. It is a 2003 (only year for the blue, my fave). Had about 30k on it when I sold it. As I said, I miss it.

 

I figure at this point you do not need advice but I'll chime in since this is the official motorcycle thread.

Been riding damn near 40 years now with just about 28 years on street. I have owned around 14 bikes and currently ride a HD FXSTC

But here is a shot of me up on Palomar Mtn here in so cal back when I had my ZX7R (which I regret selling)



This one I have blown up and framed in my garage:


And here is my current bike. Bought it in 2012 (it is an 08) I have put way too much money into this bike.

 

Take an MSF class, buy used, and keep in mind that the first bike you buy will not be the one you drive long term. Much like audio, no one gets it right with their first purchase. You need to drive one for a while before you know what you really want.


Yours truly on my 2012 BMW R1200RT. I've owned a Honda Valkyrie, like HD; but I live in the mountains, am getting old(er), and don't want to deal with 900# motorcycles any longer.

 

Came here from the ADV site, still catching up on some interesting threads. Doesn't look like there has been a lot of action here so I'll add my .02 worth.

This was a barn find I took a chance on only because it had been sitting for 20 years or so and this guy was the original owner. It was on Craigs list for 6 months or so for WAY too much money, I finally called and it was the right day to make a deal. He said come over and have a look and we'll get it done.
Needed some tidying up etc and in the end it shaped up pretty well.




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I need to move on from a Bandit 1250S. I bought it because a local guy was selling it super cheap, but I haven't been riding it because I just find it too big/heavy and the riding position a little too sporting.

As a nerd, I'm really interested in the new bikes that have an IMU, but that pretty much eliminates the used bike market. Any of you guys rocking an IMU? Do you find it makes a noticeable difference, or is it one of those things that is technically marvelous but doesn't really ever come into play?

If I forego the tech, I'd probably just look for a nice used Versys 650LT; that seems to have the riding position I'm looking for, decent suspension and brakes, and enough grunt for me riding one up. Definitely want street-oriented 17/17, there's very little around here where 21/18 would be of use.

 

It sounds like it might be a little out of the price and size market you're looking for, but I find the BMW adventure bikes (F850 GS, R1250 GS) very comfortable and easy to ride. The riding position is fairly upright and wind protection is relatively good. I don't know for sure about the tech, my R1200 GS Adventure has the TFT screen and it measures acceleration and lean angle and records it to the companion app on my phone, along with marking points where ABS or ASC activated, but I don't know whether that's what you're referring to with the IMU.

But the BMW bikes are huge, and heavy. I don't really notice the weight while riding on the road - it's actually easier to control and feels lighter on the controls than my little SV650 - but I wouldn't want to have to pick it up by myself. And I keep the seat in the higher position because I like more distance to the pegs, but I'm on tiptoes at stoplights (5' 11").

I also spent some time on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 a few years back and found it to be a nice ride as well. It seemed aimed at a similar feel with similar riding position as the BMWs, but far less expensive. Like the BMW it was a little tall at stoplights. I really like the Suzuki 650 motor. I'm not light and the 650 motor has plenty of gruntunless you're all about that Go Fast riding. I know the Versys is aimed at a similar market, but I don't have direct experience with the bike.

Even if you decide against a newer bike with all the technology, I do recommend a bike with ABS if possible, and traction control is nice too.

 

IMU's are great a great Plan B or C, but some minimally trained people use it as an excuse to avoid learning how to control the motorcycle in three dimensions. Untrained riders will instinctively grab brake while leaned over in a turn that they went in too hot on if they were beginning to run wide. They are usually running wide because they are emotionally unable to lean deeper (even though they have traction and cornering clearance left) and are afraid to apply a bit of throttle to raise the suspension and give the front wheel some additional traction for steering (trading rear traction for front traction). Regardless of any electronic wizardry employed, braking while leaned over reduces cornering clearance because it compresses the suspension. If the rear slides a bit because of the power, it tightens the turn. If the front wheel slides it widens the turn. Get both ends loose and you are drifting. You can train to the point that you are comfortable with both ends getting loose and steering with the throttle. Then you be really bad.

Of course, I am an old fart who feels the same way about ABS. I just stripped it off of a BMW K1100.

 

I respect this position but now that I have ABS I don't think I'd buy a non-vintage bike without it. But then I've had a lowside from Too Much Front Brake in an emergency stop before (more than a decade ago now) and ABS would have save me about $2000 on the bike and another $500 in riding gear. To each his own.

Absolutely agree on not relying on the computers.

 

Cost no object, the BMW F900XR seems to have everything I want (if you add at least the Sport Package). 100hp is more than I need, by a lot, but there's nothing smaller with similar electronics unless you go down to KTM 390 Adventure. I dunno if I want a bike where you're WOT all the time. Sometimes you want to ride just to ride. Mid-size KTM Adventures all have 21/18 wheels. There might be a Triumph that's competitive to the BMW, but there's no dealer in this area any more. The KTM Duke 890R is an astonishing bike for the money, but sporting position and lack of any kind of wind protection much favors the BMW.

I tell myself that with the right bike, I would ride in the 'burbs for some errands for which I now drive. Riding in our traffic, at some point Plan B or C is gonna come into play.

 

I have never had a bike with Abs, let alone tc or abs that adjusts for lean angle, but even in a car, it took me awhile to learn to just mash the brakes, which is how they work the best, at least in a car. That's a lot of years trying to modulate brakes and feel for incipient lock up, retraining my brain was tough. I imagine it would be doubly so on a bike, as it is far more important on a bike. Add to that the adjustment of front vs. rear brake pressure based on traction conditions that was fully manual vs the linked brakes present on many abs-equipped bikes, and I am pretty sure I would be a less safe rider for some period on a bike so equipped.

I do know that in a car at least, abs is better than I am once that adjustment takes place. It would be very hard to just mash on the front brakes on a bike especially at lean. Without abs one only does that if trying to crash. Never crashed intentionally. I've heard many riders (usually Harley riders sadly) say "I had to lay'er down," which is code for "I am a crap rider and I crashed." Also have no idea about using brakes to adjust chassis attitude on such bikes.

 

Cornering ABS does not let you re-write the laws of physics. An upright bike can use 100% of its available traction for braking. Conventional (non-cornering) ABS has an easy job to do just keeping the wheel from sliding. With practice, any rider can do it as well. But a bike at maximum cornering conditions has no (zero) traction available for braking. In-between these two extremes is a continuum where cornering traction is taking away from the available braking traction as the lean angle increases. By monitoring lean angle, pitch, roll, and lateral acceleration, cornering ABS can calculate how much traction is available for braking and modulate the brakes to not over-brake and skid the tires in a turn. Most of these modern systems control both brakes and use whatever braking traction is calculated to be available front or rear.

But here is the rub. If you are using all of your traction in maxed out cornering and you grab a handful of brakes, you won't get any because there is nothing there and off you go into the other lane or you interact intimately with the local terrain. It is akin to using normal ABS on wet streets. The ABS will keep you from locking a wheel, but you won't be stopping very fast because there is no traction available. These systems cannot create traction, they can only modulate or redistribute it. That is why I think building the skills to control a motorcycle in three dimensions and getting comfortable with a loose motorcycle is a better safety situation. It has been shown with everything from ABS to air bags that people tend to use up the safety advantage of the new technology by riding closer to the limits as if the limits no longer exist.

If you are in that maxed out cornering situation and all you know is to grab a bunch of brake, you will crash - ABS / IMU / or not. If you know how to control the chassis dynamics with power you have a chance of getting through the turn. When in doubt, gas it. It might not work, but it will end the suspense.

 

True for sure. Not looking at advanced electronics as something to save my ass on a winding back road. That's on me.

I dropped the Bandit a few years ago. I was in a mall parking lot in the lane that ran down the middle of the main parking lot. Someone pulled out into the lane right in front of me from the row of parking spots to the right without looking for a motorcycle. Yanked the bike left while grabbing both brakes and the front washed out. Was there enough space that interference from electronics would have kept me upright without making contact? Dunno, but this is more the scenario I'm preparing for. Even in a lot of residential streets around here, I observe people at stops signs check for a 4-wheeled vehicle and pull out when there is none. Has happened to me on a bicycle and the moto.

 

I get the physics behind it, but my concern would be my instincts. I tend to think of these things at the limit; i.e., at the track. I don't ride that way on the street, and I have no doubt that in the scenarios likely to occur in street riding, all of this tech is beneficial, and ultimately lifesaving. What you point out is correct; if the abs is preventing force from being applied, had it done so, you were likely crashing anyway, especially if the traction deficit is at the front. What is amazing to me is that most of this tech is also used in Motogp. But to prove your point, they still go down.

Motorcycles have a gyroscopic effect that makes the bike stabilize itself to some extent, but this force is stronger the faster one is moving, so the lower your speed, the less inherently stable the bike is. Conversely of course, changing direction requires more countersteering force to be applied to change direction at speed. Many accidents occur at parking lot speeds. As beemerphile said, the force applied to turn can wreck you by itself, as can braking force, especially at low speeds, so I think it would be hard to say whether abs would have helped. This conversation makes me want to ride.

 

All good points guys. I was thinking of riding this weekend, but I see snow in the forecast now. Maybe I take an afternoon off before then and at least get out to the canyons in the foothills.

 

My new ride



Traded in my Rebel 500 because it was too small/uncomfortable for me. Got this brand new Bonneville T120 and have been loving it.

 

Rode two beautiful bikes today. Up top is a Harley Low Rider S and the bottom is an Indian Sport Chief.

For 700 pound bikes they were surprisingly agile. Never really considered myself a Harley guy and I find most of their bikes ugly, but I absolutely loved the Low Rider S. Super comfortable and a metric ton of torque. Very different riding style experience compared with to my Bonneville. Would make for a great second bike for a different flavor.