ZMF Auteur - An open back ZMF

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by PacoTaco, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,042
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Asia
    Been listening to the Auteur for quite a while now. Chain is X-Sabre Pro and A&S Mogwai (auricaps). Cable is Norne Skuld.

    When I first tried it (Auteur Perforated Lambskin), I was pretty underwhelmed. It was real shouty in the upper mid. Couldn't stand it. I used EQ to search for the specific FR that bothered me. Managed to tame it down, but still...

    Then I tried the Eikon Perforated Lambskin. Sounded closer to the Aeolus. It was an interesting sound, but not the reference and neutral sound I was expecting. Staging collapsed. Details and separation lessened.

    Tried a few other non-ZMF pads, but all of them sorta darkened the sound. No go.

    Then I bought the Verite Perforated Lambskin. At first listen, I knew this was something special. The staging quality changed from the other 2 pads. Seems like the center vocal moved forward, while the surrounding instruments stayed behind. It gives a more 3D feel to it. I also felt there is more detail to it; perhaps because the driver moves closer to my ears. This is the neutrality I was looking for. No annoying FR. It was great from top to bottom. I wonder if anyone ever tried the Verite pads with the Auteur. This is, to me, the best pads for the Auteur. Am trying to find the Eikon Perforated Suede to compare.

    I finally found a can that can displace my HD800. Going back to the HD800, it now feels thinner and drier. HD800 has more technicalities, but less soul. The Auteur (with Verite pads) is the twin with the soul. It has sweeter and thicker vocals, and a more intimate but 3D staging. My HD800 is going nowhere though. It is still my reference for technicalities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
  2. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    As I wait for the new pads from Zach, I've been giving these a listen (with perforated Eikon pads) from Convert 2 as source. My opinion of this DAC has changed a bit in the poaitive direction since I've gotten used to it, and I feel it's kind of amazing how much the Auteur scales with better upstream gear.

    While it doesn't totally fix my issues with the mid-range, the better source does alot to mitigate it.

    The biggest surprise is how utterly LIQUID the Auteur comes across with the T3/Convert 2. Not something I've ever heard in a headphone. I am starting to kind of fall in love with the presentation... or maybe it's just summer romance. HD600 still sounds a bit more "natural" to me, but the wetter more fluid and refined presentation of the Auteur is tempting me to cheat on my beloved.

    [​IMG]

    Either way, sitting here listening to this wonderful album has me in that special audio place you don't wanna leave. And that's kind of what this hobby is about, right?

    EDIT:. Holy shit Daft Punk Random Access Memories + Convert2 + T3 + Auteur... It's like rediscovering music all over again. What the f**k is happening, I thought I knew what I liked????
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  3. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    You're suddenly finding out not all of us who've been loving it and ditched our senns are dumbasses.

    The qualifier is important. :p
     
  4. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

    Staff Member Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,145
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Exit stage left....
    wait. 2 weeks ago I thought you liked a CD player hooked up to a 3F? ;)

    another alternative is purchasing the T4 amp (used) on SBAF. been tempted by that myself with Auteur.
    alas, too many tube families is not my goal.
     
  5. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I also think the Auteur (and possibly other ZMF cans) plays better with lesser gear. On the HD600, Convert2 vs Modi 3 was OBVIOUS, and not in a good way. Switching back to Modi 3 with the Auteur and it's not really that big a deal... I could live with the combo. I think the 600 is a bit like the 800 in being absolutely brutal with gear changes. As such it may be a better headphone scalability-wise. But man the Auteur is just ridiculously good. It is close enough to the 800 in technicalities to the point where I can see myself buying it and ditching my plans of getting the flasgship Senn back.

    Auteur is meatier too! I really like the added body the Senn's struggle with.
     
  6. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

    Staff Member Pyrate Gearmaster
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Likes Received:
    10,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Complex
    I have observed similarly; the difference between a really modest (but not poo) setup and a higher-end one was noticeable with the Auteur, but wasn't as huge of a jump as HD 6XX. I think this might be partially due to the ZMF "timbre." It comes through without regard to upstream. Better upstream seems to mostly cater to the Auteur's perceived technicality (extrapolating from others, but seems true from an amp standpoint).

    Put another way, the HD 6XX can go from "meh" to "wow!" The Auteur goes from "ooh, me likey" to "wow!"

    Either that or this is the whiskey talking.
     
  7. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Yup. I even switched back to Modi 3 this morning and am kind of enjoying it more. It has a more natural tone than CV2 that meshes better with Auteur's more organic/lush tuning.

    The thing the Auteur does better than the 600 for me is VOCALS. 600 is just a bit too grainy in comparison. Auteur's liquid presentation really does wonders for the human voice. Seductiveness is especially pronounced.

    And I actually think I prefer it for classical over the 800, as I think it is better tuned for instruments, especially ones made from wood. This trumps absolute technicalities for me, at least right now, as I think I'm slowly moving in the direction of appreciating better tuning vs technicalities. Luckily Auteur has plenty of both to make it more balanced overall.

    I'm not much of a drinker anymore but it's the kind of headphone that makes you wanna sit in a cozy chair next to a fire on a cold night and sip a good bourbon.
     
  8. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I found this, too. Not that my ECP L2 and DIY WHAMMY sound the same, but I totally forgot which one I was listening to because I was digging the sound so much.

    On another note, I wonder if your opinions on HD800 vs Auteur for classical would have changed with a modded HD800. I think the Auteur's timbre will always be more appealing, but the rugliner mod for the HD800 definitely helps in that regard. For me, when listening to large scale classical, I am looking for that concert hall feel, and nothing I can afford touches the HD800 in that regard. For smaller scale ensembles or piano concertos, I could see the Auteur winning all the way.
     
  9. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    The 800 will always win when it comes to scale and imaging. That isn't what I meant. Even a modded 800 isn't going to sound like an Auteur with regard to tuning. I did hear the 800S and the sonarworks fix, neither were my thing.
     
  10. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    You're all weird, the closest thing I've found to a concert hall is the Atticus.

    If I ever went to a concert and the acoustics were so bad it sounded like an 800 I think I'd walk right back out :p
     
  11. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    More stream of consciousness....

    Can't believe a headphone actually makes me like Diana Krall now. Never knew what the fuss was about. Never heard a headphone do vocals in such a palpable, sophisticated and elegant manner. Realism while retaining a seductive musicality. Can get lost in good vocals. But they don't overwhelm everything else. In this way Auteur is extremely cohesive from top to bottom, the music seems to flow in an orderly but playful and sophisticated manner... HD600 seems more scattered and unfocused in comparison.

    Microdynamics and plankton are extremely good, but not laid bare in microscopic fashion like the HD800. There but presented in a more relaxed, laid back manner.

    Stage is weirdly chameleon like. Can seem small or big depending on the appropriateness of the recording. And DAC doesn't seem to have a major affect. HD600 was HUGE on the Convert2, but off puttingly small and cramped on Modi 3. With Auteur, DAC stage doesn't seem to translate as much, always seems appropriate.

    Auteur makes Modi 3 seem almost like an end game DAC with fewer deficiencies with regard to technicalities, because of the excellent tonal match and the headphone imparting its own signature regardless. This can't be said of HD600, which is much more of an unforgiving microscope and highlights the cheaper DACs flaws.

    T3's smallish stage is mitigated by Auteur, which makes it seem more normal sounding. T3's slightly lush presentation mates perfectly with the ZMF.

    Alot of Auteur's greatness is hidden behind its modest presentation (but dynamics are there when called for)... technicalities are high, but you have to focus to really get a grasp of them, as the musicality remains front and center. It is like what a headphone is supposed to be,
     
  12. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,042
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Asia
    The Auteur is the first headphone that can make me finally appreciate jazz! I always had problem understanding jazz. Not even on my beloved HD600. But on the Auteur....close your eyes and follow along...

    I wonder...is this the sound sig of biocellulose? The TH900 had that similar sweet vocal too. But it was thin, while the Auteur is thick and lush.
     
  13. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    Something about the timbre, Iunno.

    The pet driver in Atticus/Aeolus i think has slightly better absolute detail retrieval but Auteur just does this cohesive balance ... thing.

    With all the pad options too. I like it with the stock ones.

    From the Af, mind, no idea how what pad I'd like best with the T4, but I'm not gonna mess with it.
     
  14. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Haven't tackled much jazz yet, but classical is a surprise. The Auteur's liquidity and cohesion really does the genre wonders, each orchestral section just lights up with vibrancy without being in your face about it, or stepping over each other. The smallest string plucks to the biggest crescendos are all treated appropriately. The Gungnir Multibit A1 also has this freaky ability to sound laid back but also dynamic and powerful... all while never losing composure. It's like the headphone version of that DAC and I can't wait to get it back. Instrument timbre is off the scale good... better than any of the Senns I've heard, which have a tendency to be a bit dry in that area, barring maybe the 650.

    I also think the mids problem I had is instead some kind of cup resonance. A minor thing not worth focusing on.
     
  15. SmashBruh

    SmashBruh New

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    CA
    Interesting! The Verite pads are the brightest pads among them right? Does that mean that the Verite pads+Teak Auteur would be the brightest ZMF?
     
  16. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Had a pretty big day today.

    First got the Eikon perforated suede pads from Fedex, thanks Zach!

    [​IMG]

    Comparisons are vs. Eikon perforated lambskin (which remain my preferred pads)

    First noticeable change is the transients are faster/leading edges sharper, but without a trace of edginess or unnaturality.... less dark/sloped than Eikon perf.

    Soundstage is noticeably larger, more spacious with better instrument separation...less intimate, more dramatic/grand presentation.

    Midrange is a bit more opened up, a bit of a problem I had with the Eikon lambskin perfs.

    Bass seems better implemented. Whole FR seems even more linear now, with nothing standing out.

    Quite a bit more comfortable than any of the lambskin pads... cozier. Feels even less like you're wearing headphones now.

    Downside, and what made me revert back to Eikon lambskin, is that they sound dry/overly damped, not to a huge extent but noticeable to me vs Eikon perf lamb. Sound is also a bit less liquid, euphonic, hallucinatory, three dimensional and layered... all stuff that made me fall for Auteur in the first place. Wetter, lusher, more syrupy tube amps and sources may or may not mitigate the aforementioned "problems", but I doubt it ever goes away. YMMV. I still like how you can dial in a different signature depending on pads without losing the ZMF sound and dial in the signature even more with upstream components depending on the pads, creating quite a number of possibilities. Everyone is different. Someone else may prefer these pads over the Eikon lambskins. Offering these options is definitely praiseworthy.

    Later, I stopped by famish99's house to listen to the Auteur/my maxed T3 on his Gungnir Multibit A1, and try the Auteur on his Aficionado.

    [​IMG]

    Source was Theta Miles CD transport.

    First I wanna say it's always a joy listening to the Af... just a really stellar Eddie Current amp that anyone would be lucky to own.

    That said, I did not particularly like the Auteur from the Af. Or rather, I thought my T3 was a much better tonal match with the headphone. T3's slight lush/bloomy quality seems to play much better to its strengths. I thought the Auteur/Af was borderline boring and didn't care to listen for very long, regardless of the better technicalities. I think the Af and the Senns are a much better match. But YMMV... people prioritize different things, but famish did agree with me.

    The Gungnir Multibit/T3/Auteur was what excited me the most. Just awesome. A ridiculously synergistic combo, and I can't wait til that DAC is back in my possession. Auteur definitely scales.

    MORE stream of consciousness stuff (cause I can't stop raving about Zach's creation, sorry if its annoyingly gushy):

    Still astounded at Auteur's ability to make my cheap Modi 3 sound alot better than it should (this is not a backhanded compliment as its a high performing DAC, just not TOTL). It's a headphone that has this bizarro ability to amplify your source's strengths, while hiding its flaws, all without being veiled in any way whatsoever. Again, the opposite of the Senns, which can come across as a florescent light in a dirty truck stop bathroom, revealing every disgusting accident in the room... and every crevice, wrinkle and blemish on someone's face.

    The treble performance cannot be overpraised. Not even the HD650 was able to present treble (especially upper treble) this compellingly IMO. It sparkles like I've never heard while not standing out in any odd or gimped way... all the while remaining in line with the other frequencies. Extremely balanced. This is clearly evident on the opening track of Les McCann and Eddie Harris' jazz masterpiece "Swiss Movement"... the track starts with three simultaneous instruments... a bell on the right, a piano in the middle and a bass on the left. Three different frequencies, all distinct and vivid in their own way, but neither overpowering the other.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  17. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    No, I agree with you, but it's your pad choice.

    I never could understand how @cskippy ran Eikon pads on his Af/Auteur combo, but wth, he's creamy warmpoo for a reason.
     
  18. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    6,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I wish I had brought the Auteur pads along, but I don't think my opinion would've changed, since I thought even the Eikon pads on the Af were a little too dry and neutral for my taste.
     
  19. famish99

    famish99 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I definitely remember in my time with the loaner that the Auteur pads were much better for my stack than the Eikon pads but was pleasantly surprised how much nicer the tonality was with the Eikon pads on the T3.

    I would say the key downside with colt's combo is that it gets a bit congested quicker, whereas with the Af and Auteur pads you could keep throwing instruments into the mix and it would still keep up. But ultimately I'm more biased towards the Aeolus over the Auteur.

    Edit: I just moved houses and don't have a proper rack yet, definitely open to suggestions.
     
  20. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,032
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Evanston, IL
    This is gold! It's a perfect description of my experiences comparing the Auteur to Utopia. The Auteur's ability to downplay weaknesses in recordings while maintaining details comes off like sorcery.
     

Share This Page