Schiit Bifrost 2

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by RobS, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. BlizzardiCleric

    BlizzardiCleric New

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    The upcoming CD transport will have a USB out and work especially well together with Schiit DACs, as per Mike's post on another forum. So that leaves no USB ins on the DAC for a computer or any other USB source. For that a Unison Eitr would be rather useful.

    The second best thing is to hope there are Eitrs still available?

    I'm probably missing an obvious solution, here.

    EDIT: The Eitr is indeed currently available, but as Jason said previously, once they run out, they run out. I'd like to know what is Schiit's proposed long-term solution for this. Often a DAC happily takes SPDIF from a CD transport and USB from a computer, but if both put out USB...
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  2. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    https://www.schiit.com/products/eitr
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Need to price Eitr higher with fancy chassis and i2s, both LVDS and SE, via HDMI and Ethernet jack with a variety or wiring pin outs. Otherwise won't be taken seriously by those buying the various ChiFi adapters.

    Actually scratch that idea. I'm sure the total customer base for this stuff is the same 17 people who have posted on HF and here about the Guzzard, Stingxer, etc.

    Also, no one will believe that a Unison Eitr would be as good* as a Berkeley Alpha USB that goes for over $2k.

    * Different sounding, but on par.
     
  4. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Some actual Bifrost 2 impressions. My unit has been on for 24 hours with signal running through it. I'm listening with the Toolshed Darling amp & JAR modded HD650s.

    There is not a whole lot to say that Marv hasn't said already. If you read his post carefully you should already get an idea of where the Bifrost 2 lands in the current DAC lineup. I will only attempt to add my own perspective. My first Schiit DAC was the original Gungnir Multibit. I could listen to it for hours without fatigue and it had a bit of bloom/euphony that was pleasing to my ear. Over a long period of time (8 to 9 months) I began to grow weary of its warmth and fuzziness and wanted more, especially after hearing more technically competent DACs like the Soekris.

    There's an age-old saying that you don't know what you have until it's gone. I 'upgraded' to a Yggdrasil A2, then 'downgraded' to a Gungnir Multibit A2, then 'traded' for a Yggdrasil A2 again. This new generation of Schiit DACs didn't do it for me, especially with headphone listening. I found them fatiguing for longer listening sessions and lacking the 'one more album' desire I would get with the OG Gungnir Multibit. I had should note I mostly used the single-ended outputs of any of these DACs as I had a predilection for single-ended amplifiers.

    The Bifrost 2 would then be me coming full circle. Like Marv said, it has the dark and warm tone of the OG Gungnir Multibit, and along with that a certain bloom that lends itself to multiple hours of listening even with harder genres like thrash or punk. I am glad that Schiit managed to put together an output stage that does not compromise SE performance, even if it does mean using op-amps. Op-amps certainly don't have to sound bad. From memory, the sound of the Bifrost 2 is less veiled and dimensionally compressed than either generation Gungnir from their SE outputs.

    What else? I had serious issues with the bass performance of the original Bifrost Multibit. It's the only item I ever returned to Schiit after purchasing as I really did not like how disjointed the low frequencies were from the rest of the spectrum. Depending on the recording the bass was either missing or just had this 'sore thumb' way of sticking out and becoming distracting. I don't get that from the Bifrost 2. The bass quality is pretty much reminiscent of the Modi Multibit or OG Gungnir Multibit, slightly bloomy and loose but a bit better than those DACs especially with stuff like drum fills in already busy passages. I played post-punk (Mourn), noise pop (The Joy Formidable) and baggy jangle pop (The Stone Roses) to test this. These are artists I was playing a ton when I had the aforementioned DACs because I liked how they made this type of music sound. The Bifrost 2 provides the same pleasure.

    On USB, I will go out on a limb and say I have more experience with how better digital transports affect playback quality than most members here, and just how good digital can sound with true high-end(tm) transport solutions. As such, I'm not really blown away by Unison USB. Yes, it is impressive that Schiit went the hard way and coded their own implementation. Yes, it is better than Gen 5. No, it is not the second coming of Christ. Yes, I have heard as good from other manufacturers using XMOS or C-Media. The reality is this: it's not possible to make shitty digital transports like your typical PC or laptop sound good without introducing a high degree of homogenization to the sound. For Eitr/Gen5, this meant rounded transients and dynamic compression.

    Unison has its own sound. This will become more clear as it's available for more DACs in the line up and people get a handle on it. It's still great that you can hook up your DAC to your computer with just a 1m USB cable and not get immediate listening fatigue but as far as it being some sort of game changer in the context of true high-end(tm), I'm not really fully on board with that. For a $699 DAC, it's awesome. Further trickle-down will be even more awesome.

    That is all. I'll update in a few days if the sound changes any further and once I get a chance to put the Bifrost 2 in a stereo system. It didn't sound great in the first few hours from power on, congealed and lacking clarity. Taking any questions.
     
  5. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    On one hand, I'd argue a Unison-based Eitr would be the right thing to do. The point on relying on a DAC's SPDIF input, whether it's good or not, shouldn't stop anyone from delivering a good USB->SPDIF source. It will just bring more goodness to more people regardless of their DAC of choice. You can only do your best and hope others have solid enough gear to benefit. That's just the nature of the audiophile beast.

    On the other hand, that the Eitr wasn't selling well, it's hard to argue against that from a business perspective. While I was surprised to hear it wasn't selling all that well, that doesn't change the facts of the matter. And it's a top priority here, offering products that do well.

    I think @purr1n is right that most consumers want to see converters with a ton of different outputs. And it makes sense, both because people have a variety of devices with a variety of inputs (some lacking, and some with all the inputs). It also caters to those that want to drive multiple DACs at once or the audiophools that go crazy with I2S I/O and the like. Scratches all the itches.

    Plus, given the rise of networked streamers, which are actually super fuckin' handy, and the low cost of good solutions (DigiOne, Pi2AES), I can see why a pretty barebones USB->SPDIF converter doesn't make a ton of sense.

    But that's just my thoughts. I don't prefer walled off solutions, having to build around a brand. It's too easy to get pigeonholed and feel like you're in too deep to get out. I like mixing and matching all sorts of things.

    Fingers crossed there will be a transport that can play off locally attached storage and/or stream too? (Yeah, yeah, I could always just get a Raspberry Pi for USB duty as a streamer.)
     
  6. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    Any thoughts how this would synergize with Valhalla 2 + HD 650? Or if not that, other recent Schiit amps (Jot, Lyr).
     
  7. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    @SSL Very well. I only ever liked the Valhalla 2 + HD650 pairing with a warm DAC like the OG Gungnir Multibit. The Bifrost 2 is pretty much the same sound with more focus and clarity.

    That pairing sounded so-so to me with Yggdrasil A2, bad with Gungnir A2, good with Modi Multibit, good with WM8741, bad with ESS9018, bad with AKM4490, etc. Anything to alleviate the dryness and grain.
     
  8. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    remember- you're married.
     
  9. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Any possibility the datasheet specs are very conservative for the less precise DAC?

    Also not sure if there's any sort of software or hardware calibration/trimming you can do on these...
     
  10. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Hey now, that's by choice and not because the hardware itself is inherently closed-source, proprietary, etc. etc.
     
  11. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    @k4rstar

    Which TOTL transports are you comparing unison to? And are you going off memory? And how good is your memory blah blah.

    What other sources were you using besides unison for these impressions?

    I'm really trying to cut through the noise with this DAC and unison so I can figure out what I need to do in a few weeks.

    Keep in mind not everyone has owned or heard TOTL spinners. So they will not be coming from the high bar you are used to. For them unison may be a game changer based on what they've heard. Or not.
     
  12. haywood

    haywood Friend

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    I think Allo makes a hat that does “better” usb but I haven’t seen anyone do an actual comparison with stock (not that I’ve looked) and definitely wouldn’t suggest buying one before at least trying the stock ports, especially on the Pi4 as they changed their usb scheme quite a bit so it’s not sharing the bus with anything, at least on the usb 3 ports.

    https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge.html
     
  13. EraserXIV

    EraserXIV Friend

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    Has anyone tried Unison with a recent revision Bifrost 1 MB? I know the DAC chip is different, but I wonder how much of the Bifrost 2 magic comes from Unison.
     
  14. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Yes this is exactly the case, it will be impressive for people who are used to hooking their DAC up directly to the motherboard on their desktop PC or Thinkpad. There's nothing wrong with this at all. I just didn't want people to get caught up in the 'USB. Solved.' marketing like people did with Gen5. I personally think the quality of digital transport is as important if not more than the DAC for good sound. A lot of the improvements (in both magnitude and type) people are looking for when throwing money at more and more expensive DACs are more readily available by having a low noise low jitter transport. This is getting into philosophy that I'm sure a lot of people don't or won't want to believe. Marv already did a good job of tempering expectations by stating it was not as good as his Theta Data. This is why I encourage people to read carefully.

    I haven't directly A/Bed against anything. No time to in the 24 hour window since the DAC landed and no real desire to do those sort of comparisons these days. Too much of a pain in the butt. I was speaking in general terms, using high level extrapolation powers only available to level 72 audiophiles such as myself. CD transports I have owned, JCAT gadgets I still own, etc. Not necessarily TOTL stuff. For TOTL, I recently had a demonstration of Sonore's systemOptique in someone else's system that blew my f'ing mind, but he had spent about $3,500 USD on all of the involved components, not counting his DAC.
     
  15. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    If you really want to cut down on noise, all you can do is either:

    1. Wait for impressions to stabilize. This often takes months, sometimes years. Hindsight is 20/20.
    OR
    2. Read that Unison is, at worst, good enough that you probably shouldn't stress about if there's something better out there. (This is not to say it's the best but at least, likely, better than decent mid-tier SPDIF.)

    It's just audio gear. Really nothing to stress over. No rush either.
     
  16. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Thanks.

    So if I'm understanding correctly, this is a better buy than Gungnir Multibit A1?

    Did you ever try to use the balanced outs of A1 using cables or a converter?
     
  17. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Heard that.

    Your second point is probably dead on.
     
  18. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    This should be pinned on the top of every new product bullet-train on SBAF.
     
  19. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I would certainly say so seeing as you get a 5 year warranty, a better platform for future upgrades, smaller form factor, less warm up time, remote, and very comparable SQ.

    No, too lazy.
     
  20. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I was especially struck by this:

    I've never really heard this before. Kind of eye opening. If you have any more points to add I'd love to hear them.
     

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