Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    I think of the setup guides from Genelec as more of a rule of thumb.
    In their monitor setupguide they go into more details, especially about the height of the speakers from the foor.
    The recommend 120cm which I feel is quite high, but probably stems from mixing console heights.
     
  2. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Whaaat? That's awful. I guess all that lovely woodwork of their stately-home speakers like Turnberry is going to be made of plastic now o_O

    :(:mad:
     
  3. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    1.5m away from the back wall gets into the "best" option territory.
    but if you had to choose between 1m or 20cm, due to how SBIR effects, closer to the back wall is normally better, cause it drives the cancellation notch further up
     
  4. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    In some review, can't remember which one exactly, I've read that both drivers are time coherent and that waveguide is there to help with that, but probably the product is not perfect for nearfield listening. At least I wouldn't buy it for this purpose.
     
  5. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    1.5m from the wall is often in a room mode even in very well treated rooms and sounds far worse than pushing the speakers towards the wall and lowering the bass switch a notch.
     
  6. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    I dont remember the exact distance. I thought best is:
    -either very far from the back wall (5 feet or more). but was it 6 feet away minimum and not 5 feet (1.5m)? cant remember
    or
    -very close to the back wall
    an everything in between is to be avoided.

    but this is really room dependant and only by measurements can one determine whats best for his room.
    in my treated room, due to the room asymetrical walls, the rule doesnt apply. if I put my speakers very close to the back wall, it measure horrible and about 1.5m is the best "compromise"
     
  7. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Hey Yunie sorry I meant to respond to you before and forgot. As far as monitor/bookshelf speakers I’ve had LS50, Focal 906, Wharfedale Jade 3, ATC SCM11 v2, SCM19 v2, Dynaudio Special Forty, Reference 3A MM de capo Be, Graham Chartwell LS6 and I think one or two others I can’t remember at the moment.

    Haven’t heard the Amphion 3S, but I have heard they’re a bit on the bright side, while the S400 I think are slightly dark, so I’m not sure. But Buchardt definitely copied the design to some degree at least.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  8. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    would you mind sharing how does it compare to the atc scm 11?
     
  9. Partytime

    Partytime Facebook Friend

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    I have a pair of Focal CMS 65s that I scored for very cheap, used at guitar center.

    I use them for a vinyl Dj’ing Setup. I also listen to them just to listen.

    Powerful, punchy bass. Very clear mids and highs. Lots of detail. Good separation. No complaints.

    I love them for DJ’ing. Make it very easy to pick out all the instruments I need to hear for mixing. For straight listening they’re good as well, maybe a little bit clinical/boring, but not terribly so.
     
  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Had a horrific experience with defective HS8 power supplies. Made in 2019 units. JBLs and KRKs don’t have his. The made in 2013 units my friend owned that I have used a ton are silent in the woofer. No cackling. Yamaha needs to step their game up. They’re getting smoked with their shitty woofers and electronics. HS8 needs to be like 400-500 bucks a pair max and need a redesign of power supply. The main selling point in 2019 is the grill makes it hard to push in the tweeter at Banjo Center so they survive comparisons.
     
  11. Forza AudioWorks

    Forza AudioWorks MOT: Forza AudioWorks

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    In nearfield setup I'd prolly go one coaxial per channel or something along those lines.
     
  12. yunie_

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    im using back the atc scm11 i've bought months ago (and didn't have the chance to use it) after i picked up a used hegel h160.

    and its all over for now.

    reminds me why i love atc so much. the balance it has makes quick bassy sound enjoyable, while also allowing vocals to sound natural and enjoyable. the neumann kh120a i had didn't have that organic sound to it, while the dynaudio x14a sounds a little too warm.

    i don't seem to have the problem with low volume this time round with the hegel h160 as compared to Rotel ra1572 previously. it still sounds pretty decent at low volume.
     
  13. Psalmanazar

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    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Did you try Dynaudio BM6a? I haven't liked anything after the BM6a and 16a they did. The new Core stuff is super expensive and the Lyd I hated.
     
  14. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Good speakers!
     
  15. Psalmanazar

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    They’re killer! Have you heard the new Core 7? I hated all the Lyds and the later, cheaped out BMs. Wondering how the 7 compares. My buddy who uses NS10s liked the Core 3 ways a lot so idk. I like NS10m Studio but the real world of speakers doesn’t sound like that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  16. JayNYC

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    @Forza AudioWorks can you share an example/recommendation?
     
  17. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    What would an upgrade path be from the JBL LSR-30Xs if one wants to stick with horns? The M2s are the dream, but unless I'm winning the lottery or trading my kidney for one ain't ever gonna happen. The 7 series looks interesting but damn is it that much of an improvement over the 30X to warrant the price? I don't mind sticking with the 30Xs if it means diminishing returns after.

    Finally got rid of that POS Focusrite audio interface which was driving me crazy. Music was unfocused, muddy, hazy, congested, and distorted. Sounded like lo-fi blown Logitech speakers.

    Grabbed some cheap RCA-to-TS cables on Friday, going from PC->Eitr->Modi 3->Sys->JBL LSR-30X (-10dbu trim setting).

    WOW. What a difference. And the Modi 3 love affair continues...

    Strengths:
    +Imaging - pinpoint accuracy of where instruments and vocals are placed from the recording. Amazing center placement illusion.
    +Neutral - No coloration of sound. Music sounds normal: guitars sound like guitars, drums sound like drums, Ella Fitzgerald sounds like Ella Fitzgerald, Celine Dion sounds like Celine Dion.
    +Decay - There is some good natural decay present, more prominent in vocals.
    +Soundstage - My ears are 27" away from the drivers, but the stage gives just enough depth for my preference. My preference is more laid-back and I like to sit further back from the stage.

    On the Fence:
    =Smooth - transients aren't sharp, tends more to a rounder, mellower presentation. Lacks a bit of air and dynamics. However, this isn't even close to as creamy as the Modi 3 with HD650.
    =Bass - That "velvety bass" is present here: bloomy, lines aren't as tight (but I wouldn't say flabby). Good impact, however. If one wants more slam or better definition in the bass, maybe a different DAC. Regardless of DAC, I still hear some veil in the lower frequencies that sounds like its wrapped with a very thin blanket. Maybe it's that 5" woofer?

    Weaknesses:
    -Attacks: Metalheads may want to look for a different DAC pairing, as the attacks are soft and sound is overall more on the smoother side. Chiming, ringing melodic guitars sound the best here.
    -Detail/Resolution(?): Going from the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 to the Modi3/SYS, is like a blurry Magnavox CRT to a 720p resolution monitor. Eventhough the resolution has taken a noticeable step up here, there is a lack of detail retrieval, even with a bit of decay present. Not a dealbreaker for me as music is rendered with a clarity and accuracy I can't get from my headphones.

    I enjoy the hell out of the LSR-30Xs now once I've changed the source. An incredible value for $180 ($330 with Modi 3/SYS) and smashes any headphone I've heard (except the HE-6, which nails everything I want out of a headphone).

    f**k you Focusrite.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: I know the OP was asking for nearfields in the thousands, but if someone wants to get entry-level/budget monitors, I highly recommend the JBLs with Modi 3/SYS.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  18. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    The original JBL 305 had poor transients. The mk2's tweeter has more snap. Kali LP6 is duller.
    This is probably caused by the poor powerhandling at higher volumes (woofer size, poor cab, and other cheapness), incredibly cheapo original 305 tweeter, and ultra cheap class d chip amps. The bass is also going to be hitting the limiter so you will be hearing that too.

    The 705 and 708 are different beasts. Compression drivers vs soft domes.

    Stuff with waveguides and horns for easy placement and wide sweetspot?
    Genelecs if you like them. The DSP ones have crazy good imaging and coherency but sacrifice a lot of detail.
    Neumann KH120 is a huge upgrade but it has a sound.
    Maybe the upcoming Kali IN 8 or Tannoy Golds? Expect Chinesium but they might be decent.

    Honestly the stuff without the waveguides and horns has even better imaging on axis, which is easy to setup on stands 1 meter from your face. Coaxial will have the best imaging but sacrifice evenness. Just avoid metal tweeters. Quested, KRK V6 and V8 G4, Dynaudio BM (and supposedly Core) are good stuff.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  19. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    I'll cast another vote for Quested. Have the S7R's for over two years now and i wouldn't dream of replacing them unless i can afford the V3110's. They do need a sub though, its pretty much over after 60hz. I use two 10" subs with peerless drivers and i use the boundary compensation as a HPF at 80hz to crossover the subs. Works great.

    They won't take off your head with bad recordings but you will know when it sucks. Same thing for room treatment, works good without but keeps scaling the more you fix your room, but i guess that goes for most speakers. Definitely put them on axis. Easily reveals upstream tweaks like preamp changes, input on dac etc. Makes my Lyr3/Clear setup sound boring and off, i pretty much use that setup for movies and stuff on my pc now.

    They are not cheap though but have 5yr warranty now, i have the rare silver ones, they since switched back to black.
    Here is a pic of my nearfield setup; got some nice concrete stands, speakers and subs are isolated with sorbothane.
    517E33F7-D495-4AD3-BBCD-2FD66F267F14.JPG
     
  20. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Yeah, The Hans Zimmer V2108 are what Quested are known for. Best real world bass from an 8” speaker ive ever heard but it only goes down to like 40hz cleanly. Massive cab volume. The tweeters sound dull and measure dull. Quested are tanks like ATC and more of a real world reference compared to ATC hyper clarity and sometimes uneven presentation. Insane amps and headroom on both. I would take Quested for most tasks anyway because ATC don't really make two ways except for hte ATC SCM20 super cracked out NS10.You get what you pay for. Except for PMCs creamy boom tizz, Focal lol bad, and DSP bullshit trying to use sharc chips and fgpas instead of physical or analog hardware.
     

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