Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Just don't use ARC...
     
  2. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    It sucks balls?
     
  3. drgumbybrain

    drgumbybrain Science Nut

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    Didn’t like those ones... sound muffled to me. Take a look at Neumann or eve audio 5”. They sounded much better from memory
     
  4. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Sonarworks Reference 4 will mop the floor with it. I’d maybe consider DIRAC, if I wouldn’t be using a computer for DSP duties. Also with Ref4 you get headphone calibration.
     
  5. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Treated rooms will still color the sound too. The mind just adjusts after a period of time and can often pick out the direct sound vs the reflected sound in nearfield in ways a measurement mic cannot. You can’t fix sitting in a room mode though and all of these computer modeled waveguide speakers like Neumann, JBL, and Genelec are compromised. Genelec the least in terms of imaging but their speakers suck. The originals are punchy sharp boom tizz junk but at least they sound like something and have some detail, the rounder cab 8000s are smoothed over with still sharp tweeters, the new dsp ones are detail free monstrosities for computer music, cgi movies, and holographic teleconferencing.

    If you’re in true nearfield on axis, the direct sound is already greater than the sound of the room. So many great mixes were done on poorly placed NS10s with a ton of console and desk mud in the lower mids. The bass is the least likely thing to be consistent from room to room. The bass differs wildly even in studios. What you want is bass that translates from room to room and doesn’t mask anything. No one note subwoofer, harbeth, Sennheiser, harbeth, or ZMF bass

    Treating the room will not solve placement problems. His problem is his ridiculous desk and computer setup.
     
  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    The best of both worlds is ripping out your desk, getting a better speaker, and 60 dollar measurement mic with calibration files from Dayton or Behringer. If you don’t have phantom power mic pre, mini dsp has a usb powered one. Room EQ Wizard is free. Sonarworks is cool but can kill the headroom in your speakers. It’s better to fix the gross problems in your room first which you clearly have.

    Are those the KH80? Those are crap. Woofer has no head room and super boxy sound. Tweeter is typical both veiled and sharp neumann shit but the crossover is better than in most Neumanns because the woofer sucks so much. The KH120 and 310 are much better speakers overall. “But the mids are more better and clearer!” Is the response on gearslutz or sound on sound but the mid mids at even clearer on an HS5 because it’s honky like ns10 which would work even better on your desk with all the mud and resonance build up and is cheap as fukk.

    Neumanns are far worse than Questeds and ATC. Since you thought the Quested tweeter was sharp, you clearly have major room and placement problems and a 50-60 dollar measurement mic will lead you to better results (maybe even by rearranging furniture and bookshelves you already own with a 20 dollar Home Depot carpet) than trying and dismissing speakers that are all decent to excellent.
     
  7. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Ur luckbad. Get the V8.
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Yeah The 4 sucked. V6 is the clearest one and is better than the Neumanns imo. The Kevlar tweeter is cool but it has to be used directly on axis. 10 degrees away, and it’s way more veiled than a soft dome. I would not use it on anything other than nearfields so no V8 as party speakers.
     
  9. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  10. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

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    Riotvan was just saying you can do a lot by ear with a sine sweep if you're not yet ready for a mic.
     
  11. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    got it. thanks!

    now i really hate myself. i sold my hegel amp and ATC scm 11 (in white, which is really rare in my country) which i love so much just because i can't stand the bump.

    i just downloaded equalizer APO and it works like a charm.

    now i can't get my amp and speakers back
     
  12. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Don't worry we all made stupid mistakes(in this hobby). As for using EQ make sure you're only cutting and not boosting frequencies, you will run into headroom problems quick if you try to remove dips. And it probably won't even work due to room modes etc.
     
  13. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    EQing dips will cost headroom with every software, you can tell Ref4 to leave dips alone and dial in the master frame to limit low end augmentation. The reason I’m recommending it (besides the obvious) is that it uses 34 measurement points and the data then goes through spatially-weighted averaging which allows it to disregard room modes, which shouldn’t be compensated for. With less measurement points or god-forbid a single measurement point you enter the world of chance.
     
  14. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

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    so is sonarworks ref4 good enough (~90% efficacy) to correct my horrendous placement of speakers at the corner, on a desk, with let say, rear bass reflex port speakers?
     
  15. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    It won’t be perfect, but expect a big improvement. The software was created for crappy home studios. And if you still hate it, you can send the mic back for a refund. Just make sure you have a way to connect a proper phantom powered mic.

    The desk essentially creates a crapton of super early reflections which the auditory apparatus in your brain can’t discern from the direct sound, so they sum up as a bump in the response. It’s one of the things you actually can EQ away.
     
  16. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    How high is your listening position — the tweeters level with your ears? I would raise the speakers up another 4" or more and point them a bit downward if above your ears.
     
  17. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Narrowing it down to (used) Dynaudio BM6A MK1 and KRK V6S4 at the moment. Trying to keep myself under $1000 for the pair. Will be using a subwoofer and can't really afford a good 8"+ monitor.
     
  18. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    Ive clearly mentioned that Yunies speaker position within the room is catastrophic. i dont simply just recommend to add treatment in his situation. Ive also mentionned that he has to remove the speakers off the desk and away from that corner.

    about the mind adjusting. yes, we can adapt to 10$ Sony earbud as well. so what? reflections off the desk is horrible and the brain cannot filter it out; a 10 db peak is clearly audible.

    "treated rooms will still colour the sound"
    what kind of non sense is that?
    treating the early reflections will make the resultant sound much less coloured then to allow early reflection at the listening position.

    "You can’t fix sitting in a room mode though and all of these computer modeled waveguide speakers like Neumann, JBL, and Genelec are compromised."
    agreed. this is very important. Now I see people recommend Yunie's to get room EQ. this is terrible advice. room eq is the cherry on top once youve removed your listening position and speaker placement off the room modes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  19. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Yeah eq is the final touch generally but if it allows you to enjoy your music while you get the rest sorted i don't see the problem. He mentioned he still lives at his parents so he's probably limited in what he can do.
     
  20. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    - books or coffee cans under the speakers to take off the desk surface and up to ear level
    - pillow in the corner, and/or blanket affixed to the wall/shelf
    - tape a couple pieces of toilet paper in front of the tweeters

    These are all zero cost and low effort tweaks that can drastically affect the sound before you start spending money.
     

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