Hifiman HE-6

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Meteora, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. DEATHxMACHINE

    DEATHxMACHINE Friend

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    @treboR From reading your impressions I recommend selling the 4-screw and picking up a 6-screw. It is a much less fatiguing headphone but still retains the same magic and detail. Might be able to find one already blu tak modded like I was able to which really tightens the bass. Don't keep it just because of the allure of its rarity and build a system around it. The 6-screw is just as amazing in its own way. This is coming from someone who owns both.
     
  2. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    I you can't hear the difference in technicalities between the 2 versions, it'd be worth looking at the rest of the gear, as it's been suggested earlier.
     
  3. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    I appreciate the sensible advice.

    I would like to stick with the headphones for a few months, at the least. Hear what a different DAC does, maybe another pad swap or a mod. Already planned to get a Bifrost Multibit before the HE-6, last component I want to slot in my speaker setup.

    You're of the opinion I won't give up much in resolution for a 6-screw? I thought I preferred a warmer sound, which made me seriously think of getting a 6-screw instead, but I've gravitated to brighter headphones lately. I've read the 4-screw described as sort of an HD800 but without the veil, which caught my attention. Other people's descriptions are all I have to make a purchase decision since I'm not in a position to try out both variants. I hate returning equipment too.
     
  4. eboleyn

    eboleyn New

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    [HE-6se vs quality of sources/amps commentary follows...]

    I've been much more a speaker system than headphone guy, so had never gotten really nice gear for a headphone setup to compare with my 2 nice speaker systems (one in my family living room and one in my "lab"). I have some older HE-500's I'd gotten used and run them with some cobbled together leftover stuff from my speaker system experimentation that happened to have (what was at least supposed to be) a nice high-power balanced headphone amp out. The HE-500's sound really good, generally beyond any other headphones I've ever been able to try, but still a clear level below the phenomenal "like it's really there" results I get from my tuned DAC/amp/speaker systems.

    Having said that, I've had a steadily increasing curiosity about the HE-6's for a while ("will they bridge the gap?"), and the re-release of the HE-6se has given me the opportunity to compare with my HE-500's and encouraged me to try more combinations. I.e. I acquired a set and did some testing over the last few days.

    Setups I tested with:
    1. My "cobbled together headphone DAC/amp" - Audio-GD NFB-1.32 DAC / Audio-GB NFB-6 Amp w/balanced headphone out.
    2. A spare unit - Audio-GD NFB-10SE DAC/Amp w/balanced headphone out.
    3. (several random DAC/headphone amp setups *without* balanced headphone out)
    4. My living room speaker DAC/amp system (the best one I have) - NAD M12 / Pass Labs XA250.8 / Banana-plug-to-XLR-4-pin adapter for balanced headphone out.
    I always fed them via CD or higher quality sources (CD collection + Tidal online), with similar material that I'd used for tuning my speaker setups. Generally the less "produced"/more "live" the recordings, the more I could determine differences and got that "liveness" feeling... probably not a tough guess, though various newer high-quality sources sometimes gave good results regardless.

    Effects I found myself noting:
    • Tonal correctness must be perfect as a baseline (of course!).
    • Voices seeming like they're "there"/"right in front of you"
    • Live recordings audience sounds seeming real.
    • Tracking multiple sounds cleanly and comparing.
    • Positioning sense. (note: it never hit the same level as my front-room system... I'm starting to think my ears want the room reflections or something)
    Results:
    1. HE-6se was subtly/somewhat better than HE-500 after lots of A/B-ing, but still notably below my front-room stereo system. The sense of "liveness"/clarity was only occasional where I knew the recording could do it for me. Made me really wonder and generated my desires for the later tests. Was using a balanced cable between the DAC and Amp, but there is supposedly a better way to connect them I haven't tried called ACSS which I will try in a few days.
    2. Better than #1 (surprisingly to me, since it's a supposedly not-as-good as #1), but still only sometimes getting the "liveness"/not quite the clarity.
    3. Mentioning these without specifics just as a comment since I've seen complaints about Audio-GD online on various forums... literally no headphone amps I tried other than the Audio-GD units I have got in the same ballpark.
    4. THERE IT IS!! Everything except some of the positioning sense hit *right* on the head with the HE-6se. It basically just sounds like listening to my Tekton Double Impact large floorstanders, again modulo some of the positioning sense info. Better than ever on the HE-500 too, though this setup clearly highlights the differences the best. "liveness" does happen sometimes, but generally "liveness" and clarity are just lower.
    On the plus side, now I know what those HE-6se's can do. On the minus side, I'm not gonna have a NAD M12/Pass XA 250.8 just for my headphones (expensive, power hungry, and really not portable!).

    So a final summary: The HE-6se's can sound just phenomenal if you drive them right, but they need some special driving to get there. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised... it took expensive DAC/amp combos to do that for high-quality speakers in my experience.

    Still TODO: Will try the ACSS cable on the Audio-GB NFB-1.32 plus NFB-6 setup. May try a few other speaker-amp combos like my spare NAD M51 (similar DAC hardware to the M12) plus some much less expensive/smaller but still good speaker amps that do well driving simple speaker loads (compared to a complex multi-element speaker with a crossover, say).
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  5. DEATHxMACHINE

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    @treboR I definitely recommend performing a blu tak mod and putting on some zmf suede pads. Tightens them up and calms the treble a little bit. The blu tak mod is very easy to perform.

    I do not think much resolution is lost with a 6 screw. I found that there is a little disconnect with treble and bass of a 4 screw. The 6 screw's treble is reduced a little and the mid range is brought up a little bit. The has the side effect of also having more bass. But makes it a more rounded headphone. Some have said there is a veil (which i dont hear) but I think it is exaggerated when you compare it to the extreme brightness of the 4 screw. I think a unmodded 4-screw is a good companion headphone while the 6 screw is a good stand alone headphone.

    fyi
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/ohhgouramis-he-6-info-and-mods.1726/
     
  6. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    @eboleyn

    The reason you have still some space cues lost or moved on the he6 is that inherently, studio music is made for speakers. That's also why live recordings sound so good and life like on the he6, the recording techniques are different and somehow highlight more the ability of the he6.
     
  7. eboleyn

    eboleyn New

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    [#2: HE-6se vs quality of sources/amps commentary follows...]

    OK, tried out the ACSS cables for the Audio-GD NFB 1.32/NFB-6 stack... but this was kind of a Red Herring.

    Turns out I'd tested that on Windows 10 with only 16-bit/44.1 KHz audio enabled, and due to work issues I hadn't been able to install USB drivers for the NFB-1.32, so had to use optical interconnect. Improving the sample depth/rate was the most important thing to do, and it improved the quality a bit. It still had a way to go to bring it up to compare with my big front-room stereo system (which is using BluOS direct on the NAD M12, so like a USB connection).

    I next tried a hybrid of my old NAD M51 DAC and the Audio-GD NFB-6 headphone amp withe the optical input. Kind of promising, but I wanted to try the USB input. Some tweaking later to get the NAD USB driver installed and set up correctly and ... whoa, it is maybe just a *tad* worse than my living room system, but only that.

    So, the DAC and the digital source (in this case async USB) was the bigger effect.

    I'll probably end up tryng the Audio-GD NFB-1.32 DAC again but with the USB driver on a Windows box at home at some point to compare, but I'm enjoying the combo of the NAD M51/Audio-GD NFB-6 so much that I probably will wait a while.
     
  8. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Back with some new components in my HE-6 rig.

    Or what I'd like to call ridiculous overcompensation for an impotent micropenis. I feel like I own the headphone rig equivalent of a redneck lifted truck with smokestacks and gigantic truck nutz dragging on the concrete road.

    HE-6 owners easily win any small penis contest. Or as @brencho wonderfully put it "let's not short-change the huge bump in masculinity that comes from using an amp's power as a proxy for dick size." source

    Indeed, as Freud would surmise, this is what attracted me to the HE-6, the enormous power potential. If Foucault was still alive he would have written a chapter on HE-6 owners' failure to reach unknown required power standards. Just when you think you have enough power, you don't. "Endgame" amplification would be two nuclear power plants in "monoblock" mode but still might not get that last .00000000000000001% needed. We need CERN to develop an in-home large hadron collider, it's the only way to be sure!

    Seriously though, I thought I was f'ing insane bonkers to try Vidar monoblocks with the HE-6. I asked around to confirm my insanity and @Armaegis is even crazier than I am! You know he used kilowatt amps with the HE-6? Yeah a f'ing kilowatt! My reaction:

    [​IMG]

    You have some serious balls to try that. How haven't you blown up the headphones, or your ears, or house, I don't understand. But regardless that is f'ing epic. Major kudos.

    As far as I'm concerned, my endgame is going to be those Nexus Class A 200W monster monoblock amps Jason might design in a few years. I can't fully breakup with Schiit, they have earned my loyalty. And I love Jason's amps because they have some f'ing balls to them unlike some of the other brands I've tried in the past.

    Anyway, @Armaegis batshit craziness aside, I found a single Vidar/Saga to be plenty for the HE-6. I would have been perfectly satisfied with this setup.

    Buuuuuuut the Bifrost Multibit thwarted my plans on assembling the best "value" single-ended HE-6 system (and speakers). Back to the drawing board. Now I haven't heard the Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil, so they might be totally killer products, but the lower-priced stuff just didn't do it for me. I had read the Bifrost Multibit A2 belonged in the family of Gungnir and Yggdrasil DACs, which made me reconsider the Yggdrasil as my endgame DAC. I had to look elsewhere.

    And then I bumbled into that Convert-2 review thread.

    Two things immediately caught my attention, besides the sweet peak over average meters. It was rather curious when people were describing the strengths of the Convert-2...it was like they were talking about what the HE-6 excels at. And folks were praising it for how well it did pop music, which is 99% of my music consumption anyway.

    Holy shit this DAC sounds like the perfect match for the HE-6 on paper. I later realized the guy who I bought my 4-screw HE-6 from, @Jozurr , he had the Convert-2 in his HE-6 chain. He loved the combination when I asked him about it.

    Now to rationalize spending $2.4k on a DAC and save up the money for it...

    Being a broke white trailer trash nerd, I obsessed over reading every single impression/review I could find on the internet, read the datasheets on the DAC chip and opamps (as if I understood any of it), did a ton of digging into this Dangerous Music company, learned as much as I could about the designers behind the DAC, and so on. I was about 90% confident this was the DAC for me knowing my tastes/likes, which is enough to persuade me to spend that kind of money on it. Remind me again why I got sucked back into audiophiledom again? This is a rich man's game and I am far too poor to play it.

    I didn't want to go on the merry-go-round of low-mid priced DACs to try to find the last fitting puzzle piece in my quest to assemble the best "value" HE-6 system. So f**k it, I'll just save for what I really wanted.

    Someone may ask what's with this pursuit for "value" when it comes to the HE-6? It's less about me being poor and more that I have scruples over spending a fuckton of money for components around a headphone. Getting into two channel opened my eyes (err ears) that I shouldn't be wasting any more money on headphone gear. One of the things I absolutely love about the HE-6, besides doing exactly what I want out of a headphone, is I can simply swap out the headphones and plug in my speakers to the same components. No need to buy separate gear for headphones. Thank you Dr. Fang for creating a ridiculously low sensitivity headphone that needs speaker amps to properly drive them. So any upgrades I do in my two channel rig can carry over to the HE-6. f**k yeah.

    I wouldn't have ended up here without my HD650 purchase, and the various amps/dacs I paired with it, which cast the die where I wanted to go. It served as the springboard to knowing what I wanted out of headphones and sound. And I ended up going in a completely different direction.

    I initially was going to post impressions in the Convert-2 review thread, but with all the different gear now in my rig I am not entirely sure if the benefits are coming from monoblock amps, or the Goldpoint balanced passive preamp, or the DAC, or the sum of all these parts.

    Speaking of preamps, @frenchbat is right that preamps matter just as much as the power amps do. This was the big surprise. When I swapped out the Saga for the SYS, it made the HE-6 too lean in the mids. I don't know if it had anything to do with that Sylvania Bad Boy tube I had for the Saga, but the mids were denser, better layered, a bit deeper soundstage, and the HE-6s seemed like they had just enough power. It's weird because the SYS in my speaker system is marginally clearer than when I had the Saga. So I'm not sure if I can recommend the SYS with the HE-6, unless you can't afford a Saga. YMMV.

    My buying advice for those like me who are looking for the "cheapest" proficient HE-6 4-screw rig would be as follows:
    1. Saga/Vidar/Modi Multibit (or dark R2R) - The 4-screw version would benefit from the darker, sloped nature of the Modi to tame the treble energy, better layering and bass, but sacrifices in resolution compared to Modi 3. I found the Modi Multibit the better DAC compared to Bifrost Multibit A2 in overall coherence. Maybe roll a different tube in the Saga. I don't know how much of an effect a different tube will have (it seems like its minimal based on other impressions), I bought my Saga used and it didn't come with the stock tube Schiit sells.
    2. SYS/Vidar/Modi 3 - For the absolute bare minimum IMO. This is plenty serviceable, except treble might be bothersome, but I think there are notable gains going with Saga/Modi Multibit.
    I know I'm a total Schiit shill. But doing a little homework reading various threads, there's a few who suggest the Saga/Vidar (@Ray said it gets you 95% of what the uber amps will give you). Also there is no hum, noise, static when using the speaker taps from the Vidar. It's completely silent. Now granted I have the Vidar plugged into an Emotiva CMX-2 strip which is then plugged into an Isobar.

    Personally I think the Schiit route is the way to go as bang for buck and then if you really want to, save up the money for those $5k+ amps. No idea how much those $$$ amps trounce the Vidar.

    TL;DR - Schiit Trek: The Chifiman Wrath of Khanvert-2

    OR

    <------ Venom Bane breaking my back to become a paraplegic

    HUGE f'ing DISCLAIMER HERE - take all the grains from a salt mine:
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/sbaf-dac-talk-ii.6964/page-37#post-274708


    Rig: PC-> Schiit Pyst USB cable -> Convert-2 (-14dbfs setting, 44.1k manual, Master Clock enabled, volume trim bypassed) -> 2ft. Belden 1800F Balanced Audio Cable x2 -> Goldpoint SA1X-47 -> 2ft. Belden 1800F Balanced Audio Cable x2 -> Schiit Vidar x2 monoblocks -> HiFIMAN HE-6 (4s-screw) w/ YFS 'Super30' Copper Litz cable

    Strengths:
    ++++++++ No hint of "digititus" with USB. This is f'ing huge and worth the price of admission.*
    +++++ That lack of "digititus" coupled with superb timbre makes this highly addictive to listen to. I don't want to stop playing music.
    +++ Normal ass timbre and transients.
    +++ Best bass I've ever heard. It's just right. Not too bloomy or bloated. Incredible articulation, tactility and dynamics. Nails the change in pitch with bass. Awesome slam that isn't overwhelming. No "ghost-like" Bifrost Multibit bass here.
    ++ Instruments have a lot more breathing room and stand out on their own.
    ++ Busy tracks don't turn into a mushy compressed mess. Great layer separation.
    + Snares that can crack like a .50 CAL Barrett shot.
    + Can feel and hear the air coming out of tight kick drums.
    + Guitars have sick crunch and bite.
    + Mids have a bit of sugary sweetness.
    + Overall smoothness to the signature that doesn't take the edge off the transients.
    + Transparent window into the music. No Sennheiser blanket veil here. It's not totally windex window clear though. With speakers it gets closer to squeaky clean.
    + Genre master in all sorts of pop music: rock, reggae, hip-hop, rap, soul, R&B, teeny bopper pop, (unknown about Jazz and Classical, which I have no way of properly evaluating. See my disclaimer above)
    + Convert-2 seems well built. Volume trim knob is silky smooth when turned.
    + Level meters are cool as shit, all DACs should have them.
    + HE-6 with this combination closest I'm gonna get to have speaker-like sound for a headphone (SRa1 is probably better but I ain't spending 3k on a headphones/nearfield-earphone)

    Weaknesses:
    ------- Ruined the Modi 3 for music listening RIP ;(
    ------ Noticing all the digital artifacts in my budget gear which is distracting from the music. It's hard to get sucked into the music.
    --- Man are headphones a compromise to 2-channel.
    - At this price there's no reason not to have a stepped attentuator
    - Miss the coloration and slight boost in body from tubes
    - Not the last word on microdetail or decay? This is tentative, would need to listen to more recordings. Could be an HE-6 shortcoming.
    - HE-6 not as finely textured as the HD650. A very tiny amount of information seems missing or gives an impression that it's there but not fully heard.
    - Overpriced**
    - Center image is slightly pushed back in volume compared to the extreme right and left sides. I wouldn't necessarily call this "U"-shaped, but it's almost shaped like a bucket with headphones. This doesn't bother me but might bother you.***

    Surprises:
    = Not the radical overkill with monoblock Vidars as expected. Tighter grip and bass, yes. Meatier mids, yes. This is still TBD after more listening although tentatively I'm not sure it's worth another Vidar for the gains you get. Maybe. Need more time to evaluate.
    = Able to have a wide range of volume control on the pre-amp, even turning the knob all the way to 3 o'clock position. Is this preamp broken?
    = No 600lb sumo wrestler body-slamming type bass that has enough low-end heft to plow you down to the Earth's core. Totally expected this with dual Vidars and the bass response from Convert-2. Surprised how normal the bass is.
    = Motherfuckers on here exaggerating how bold, loud and impactful the DAC is. Not getting this enhanced, vivid or yelling presentation. Ok the macrodynamics are much more in your face than other DACs I've heard. Ya'll made it sound like wimpy polite DACs like the Modi 3 enjoy the richest, creamiest dessert at a dinner-jacket required 5-star restaurant and the Convert-2 is a strung-out Andrew Dice Clay kicking down the front door of that restaurant, shoving the reservations list in the host's face, stomping loudly over to the Modi 3, then taking a massive dump on its desert while laughing, and thereafter leaving with both middle fingers up at the rest of the shocked patrons. Nah it's not that wild.


    *I take "digititus" to mean a lack of fluidity and a digital sounding "haze" over a recording. I'd like to expand this definition to say this also describes a "chopped up" sound. Immersion in music for me is non-existent with a certain level of "digititus".

    **It's not that I don't think the Convert-2 is worth the money, to me it is. But when you look at the internals, features, etc. it is overpriced. This might just be the high price for American labor.

    ***Here's what I mean:
    [​IMG]


    The King of Pop

    I had to get the Convert-2 after reading the raves on how it presents studio recordings and pop music. To repeat what I said in my disclaimer: I am a diehard pop fanatic. Love too many pop artists, songs, albums that would be a total embarrassment to Dire Straits audiophiles. I consider pop in a very broad sense: hip-hop, rock, teeny-bopper pop, bubblegum, electronic, funk, dance, R&B, soul etc. I'm the embodiment of a Billboard Hot 100 chart or the perfect soulless consumer UMG markets to. As I said above, don't have the ears for classical and most jazz. I'm convinced my lack of refined musical taste is the result of thoroughly absorbing my parents' CD collection of Phil Collins, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Fleetwood Mac, disco-era Bee Gees. Their greatest hits are permanently etched in my subconsciousness. I am grateful I never got exposed to the likes of Michael Bolton or Richard Marx which I would have considered child abuse.

    But yeah I have never heard pop music with so much snap that can crack your cranium open. It's f'ing awesome how much punch and kick comes out of Phil Collins' drum-kit on "Easy Lover". It needs to hit like a wrecking ball against concrete and I'm furiously air-drumming along with Phil. It does that kind of thrilling impact. Nathan East's subtle bass lines deserve more attention. On the Bifrost Multibit they were practically muted, but the Convert-2 you get this incredible bass layer that just glides over Phil's massive drum-kit with such incredible rendering.

    And holy f'ing shit are Michael Jackson's records sonically taken into beyond the f'ing stratosphere. I prefer the 2001 Special Edition remasters of MJ's discography over all other CD versions. The volume is boosted just enough not to crush the dynamics. The 25th Thriller anniversary CD is compressed loudness war garbage. So take MJ's 2001 "Invincible" album aka the most expensive album ever made. Oh yeah baby you can hear the $100 million dollars spent on this record. It is super crisp, those steely rhythms on "Unbreakable" are bone-chillingly cold with snares that shatter ice. His "Dangerous" album has those same snare drums that hit like icicles. "Break of Dawn" one of the ballads on the album arrests you with MJ's feathery light voice and has so many layers going on in the background that create this expansive soundscape.

    His Quincy Jones-produced albums are even more impressive. I've never heard "Thriller" or "Off The Wall" have so much liquid effortlessness. Damn it's smooooooth. One of my favorite test tracks to determine if headphones or any other component is garbage is to listen to "Billie Jean". There's gotta be enough spaciousness to compliment the sparse arrangement. And those drums have just the right amount of of punch and that bassline needs to be slinky, pulsating, and almost menacing like. But yeah the Convert-2 pulls this off in spades, just stunning. Even MJ's multi-tracked vocals are superb. On "Rock With You" his trademark delicate fragile vocals pull out all the stops while surrounded by those light shimmering "chukka"-Nile Rodgers-esque licks.

    Anyway this section ain't really about Mike, but just pop music in general. From Janet Jackson, Soundgarden, Jeff Buckley, Madonna, Moby, Radiohead, Massive Attack, Sheryl Crow, Daft Punk, Motorhead, Led Zeppelin, Ghostface Killah, Funkadelic, Black Uhuru, Karyn White, TLC, Alanis Morissette, Ariana Grande, Backstreet Boys etc. etc. are all just excellent with the Convert-2. It deserves a crown.


    Ace Of Base

    This is a basshead's wet dream DAC. I don't mean knuckledraggers who wear Beats by Dre and its overblown bass fart flub. No this is some serious clean precision here. So I'm going to take a track that seems utterly ridiculous on its face because its such a "poor" recording. But I have never had a speaker/headphone system ever manage to pull off how the bass should hit and sound. The track is "Building Steam With A Grain of Salt" by DJ Shadow. Right in the middle of the track there is this rapid drum kick/snare thing going which then fades to black. In comes this wah-wah guitar then a second after the bassline hits. WOW. You can hear the change in pitch and density with perfect articulation. It has just the right amount of bass impact that doesn't cloud up the guitar and drums that come in. On other systems, the bass gets distorted, or is muted or some other kind of fuckery. I know what you're thinking, I'm a lunatic because its such a lo-fi sounding track and was probably sampled with that MPC at a low resolution or whatever tape recorder he used. (That "lo-fi" is what contributes to the richly dense gothic atmosphere on that album) But I don't know how the f**k the Convert-2 manages to pull off this sort of 3-D effect with this bassline. f'ing A.

    Some other cool shit I've heard like Lucy Pearl's "Dance Tonight" has superb bass dynamics and the deepest low end I can get from my speakers hits hard. Unlike the Modi 3, which blurs the differences in bass guitars because it blooms way too much, you can easily point out the change in bass notes played, like on Groove Theory's "Tell Me" right at the bridge. I've never heard that before! All of my favorite tracks I use to listen to bass, like Fleetwood Mac's "Dreams", LL Cool J "Hey Lover", Moby "Porcelain", John Mayer's No Such Thing (yep you'll be surprised how busy that bassline is), Nelly Furtado's "I'm Like A Bird" or even silly shit like UB40's "Red Red Wine" actually has definition to it?! WTF!

    God those tracks are just on the top of my head and ain't even close to the hundreds more that are better but I forgot. Sorry my music library rivals the Library of Congress so it'll take me awhile to remember. Oh well.


    The Sky Is Broken

    So my previous complaint about the HD650 where music sounds finely chopped up, where cymbals don't crash naturally but are imbued with an artificial broken texture. Well I think that might have come from the DAC I was using, cause I am not hearing anything like this with the Convert-2. All of those "digital artifacts" that comes from the Modi 3 renders sound inorganically is completely gone. I'm super sensitive to cymbals being too choppy. Or even when details are crushed because of digital harshness? I'm not sure if I'm making much sense, I think my "digititus" definition gets what I'm trying to express, it's the opposite of going to a live concert. Anyway the elimination of this with the Convert-2 has something to do with the advertised elimination of jitter? Why can't all USB DACs sound this f'ing good? I can't believe this is coming from a digital USB source. Or maybe the Wyrd is smoothing shit out somehow. Or maybe all my motherboard USB ports are junk and I'm giving the Modi 3 a short thrift. I dunno but wow it's nice to listen to music and get immersed in it, without fighting digital nasties.


    Anyway I'm getting too f'ing lazy to write more. f**k it, I had more to say but I scraped it. I should probably delete all this rubbish.

    I wanted to thank @atomicbob for posting his measurements of the Convert-2 and Goldpoint SA1-X. Thanks for making these accessible free of charge. I'm not a measuer "objectivist" by any stretch, but it's nice this gear measures well and you've put forth the best combination.

    A big thanks to @Jozurr for putting up with my incessant questioning on what gear I should get with the HE-6. Porker persuaded me to buy a $600 preamp, this expensive ass DAC and maybe even that FirstWatt J2 later...but no seriously I appreciate your willingness to help me. I wonder what kind of music you are into.

    And thanks to everyone else for their Convert-2 reviews/impressions, all the helpful HE-6 posts and SBAF in general. This community rocks and I am unworthy.

    Cheers.

    Oh and the albums I've played during the initial impressions:

    - The 2001 Special Editions of Michael Jackson's catalog have the volume boosted just enough while maintaining excellent dynamics. They are my preferred remasters.The 25th anniversary remaster of "Thriller" sounds like it was victim of the loudness war; too loud and compressed.
    - Massive Attack "Mezzanine" is the new 2019 remaster. The original release is great except there is a tiny bit of loudness compression. This is fixed on the import and there's more nuance in the layering, sounds I don't hear on the '98 release.
    - Fleetwood Mac "Rumors" is the 2004 remaster. I prefer it over the 1987(?) original release. It's not bad, but the remaster hits a little harder and polishes it just right.
    - Iggy Pop's "Raw Power" - I like both versions but I prefer Iggy's 1997 remix. This album should have been originally mixed this loudly, it just works so good here. It's like the brickwalling Owen Morris did on Oasis "Definitely Maybe" to make those guitars sound so massive. Only time the loudness war crap is a positive.
    - The Clash "London Calling" is from the "Sound System" boxset. A tiny bit better in resolution than the 2001 release
    - The Beatles' "Sgt. Pepper" is the 2017 stereo remix. I love the mono but I think Giles Martin has done an incredible job remixing it. It sounds gorgeous and sweeping. I don't agree with how he positioned Ringo's drums on "Day In The Life" but that's the only fly in the ointment.
    - Jimi Hendrix' "Electric Ladyland" sadly does not have a good CD pressing that I'm aware of. I have the 1997 and 2010 and 2018 pressings. The 2010/2018 releases are much louder than the '97 but sounds somewhat crushed. When I want to rock out at loud volumes, I'll play the 2010, otherwise I'll stick to the '97 for other listening.
    -Funakdelic's "Maggot Brain" and "And Your Ass Can Follow" 2003 remasters are pretty good.

    - The other albums would be the regular CD releases: "Design of a Decade" by Janet Jackson, "Immaculate Collection" by Madonna, "Marshall Mathers LP" by Eminem, "Fat Of The Land" by The Prodigy, "Halfway Between the Gutter and the Stars" by Fatboy Slim, "Kid A" and "OK Computer" by Radiohead, "Homework" and "Random Access Memories" by Daft Punk, "Sweetener" by Ariana Grande, "Emotion" by Carly Rae Jepsen, "Tigerlily" by Natalie Merchant, "The Blueprint" Jay-Z, "Ride the Lightning" by Metallica, "Invasion of Privacy" by Cardi B, and a few others.

    Picked these for a variety of reasons, I'm familiar with them and they are good enough where I can pick out differences. Some better than others.

    "Unglamorous" photo shot that would make @Torq wince:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  9. Jozurr

    Jozurr Facebook Friend

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    I'm glad you're enjoying the rig and the upgrade process! At least for the DAC/Preamp, you won't have to upgrade any time soon considering both are exceptional in their own right.

    For the HE-6, I'd definitely do the open grill mod, at least. You should give that a try and see if you like it - it opens up the soundstage and the imaging improves a bit. It's easily reversible so if you don't like it you can always reverse it.
     
  10. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do that tonight.

    I'm curious what dBFS setting you have on the Convert-2. Do you have it at -14? Also is it normal to have the Goldpoint at 12:00 o'clock or even past that for quieter tracks to get adequate volume? Some tracks I'm going all the way to 3:00. Truly I am shocked I'm able to have this much attenuation in volume, I just hope my preamp ain't broken.
     
  11. Jozurr

    Jozurr Facebook Friend

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    I'm at -18dBFS to match my KH310. The attenuator on the SA1x isn't linear - so the beginning steps won't make the volume as loud as the later steps would. Just make sure the attenuation on the C2 isn't on (volume knob at max and no red light near the pot on)
     
  12. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Thanks bud. Are you out of the headphone game now? Those KH310s were on my nearfield shortlist.

    Some more data:

    I originally complained that the HE-6 was a bit too bright with the slightest ringing treble, piercing sometimes. But now with my current setup those problems are eliminated. No more listening fatigue either. If anything it's almost perfectly neutral but a tad darker (preferable for me). I don't consider the 4-screw bright anymore. Treble doesn't seem thin and brittle either. It does lack a bit of air at the highest frequencies but this seems to be a Convert-2 thing. The Modi 3 sucks in comparison except it does have more resolution. This is noticeable in detail retrieval, which the HE-6 can excel at with a highly resolving DAC. The Convert-2 doesn't dig deep enough in this area. Walloping macrodynamics, fast transients, slam, natural timbre clearly hog the spotlight. Convert-2+AK4490 resolution would be the perfect DAC. Maybe a slight readjustment to the soundstage for some folks.

    Actually now that I've settled in with the Convert-2, there does seem to be a thin film over the entire audio band. Listening to Mariah Carey and it's a bit veiled, slightly dulled. The Modi 3 is a smidgen clearer listening to the same tracks. I was initially so overwhelmed by all the things that the Convert-2 did right that I dismissed claims of it being veiled. But now it's starting to make sense where @purr1n is coming from. And also why this DAC ain't for Classical, if you need all those ambient cues and the finest of details. Maybe this dullness is helping with the lack of fatigue?

    If Modi 3 is 2k in resolution, the Convert-2 straddles at 1080p and sometimes dips below that.

    This ain't a dealbreaker by any stretch but I know the HE-6 is capable of being highly resolving. I'm glad this thin veil doesn't affect only a particular frequency range.

    With speakers the Convert-2 is much more open, pristine and has this brilliant shine in the higher frequencies. The center image might be a bit too recessed for my liking but this is a nitpick. Everything else is A grade, and that bass is A+.

    Wish I had a measurement rig to see the frequency response of my HE-6.
     
  13. Jozurr

    Jozurr Facebook Friend

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    Sometimes noise in the DAC/chain results in very bright treble which is mistaken for resolution. Also, it's a difference of presentation for some people. In a track, not all subtle cues, smaller details are supposed to sound up in your face or at equal volumes etc. That's one of the differences with higher end DACs that they place these details right and are voiced accordingly so you don't hear them all in your face at the same volume - now when that happens with a planar, it appears veiled/masked as planars don't play well with lower volume details - which has usually been the criticism of a planar - to not be able to do microdetail as well. With your Modi-3 everythings probably up in your face with which a planar you can hear better. Planars do many things right like the bass/rumble/slam, but microdetails isn't their forte. This is where I prefered my Raal SR1a to the HE-6- microdetails and presentation.
     
  14. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    That makes sense. And apologies if my "criticisms" aren't directed at the right component (headphones, DAC, etc). I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about.

    So would you say with my current rig I'm up to the limitations inherent to planars and HE-6?

    Would rolling a different pad make any notable improvement? I currently have ZMF Suede Auteur non-perfs. What I would want are vocals to have a little more depth and clarity. Female vocals are dulled slightly more than I'd like. If I can't get that, no big deal. I've already given up ever having a headphone that can reproduce spine-tingling female vocals on par with my AMT tweeters.

    Neuroticism is a bitch.

    BTW this slight veil isn't noticeable with speakers. My only niggle is I would like vocals a bit more forward.
     
  15. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I believe what you're experiencing has a lot to do with the 2k dip, which is a trait of most HFM headphones. IME mods can't really address this directly, but you can damp to push down the 3-6k region to make it more in-line with the 2k area. Problem with this approach is that you'll still get a rise back up to the mid-treble unless you use other mods too, and the bass and lower mids will lay on thicker given the rest of the mid-band will be shelved compared to stock, even if it is more linear relative to itself. The more you do, the more the dynamics get damped. It's terribly tweaky and finding the right materials with a light touch is key.

    Auteur pads tend to give the most presence in that 2-4k area compared to others. You can use perf pads if you want to tilt the entire balance upward, which may give a perception of better clarity. I've gone back and forth on which pads I prefer... Best of luck to you on your trial and error journey!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  16. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    @E_Schaaf are you telling me you are rescinding your offer to mod my HE-6!? :p

    If there are no other modifications I can do to the cans besides the blutack, then the only mod left is to buy some booze.
     
  17. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I'm still happy to take it on. It's just a balancing act and can take quite a bit of time and labor to dial in properly. Mods have to be synergistic with each other and you have to know what your end goal is.

    Sometimes those goals are unrealistic, sometimes not. HE6 is still HE6, and component matching is still most important, mods are just a matter of playing to their strengths or mitigating their weaknesses, that last 5% if you know what I mean.
     
  18. Firegon

    Firegon New

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    Sure, there is only so much one can do with mods. That being said, unlike many other cans their signature allows the user to choose a few different paths.
    I've owned 3 pairs so far - stock 4 screw, Code 6 4 screw and now the 3rd completely custom made pair and all of them sounded quite a lot different.
    Sure, it's pretty much impossible to make them sound like LCD3, but it is possible to achieve both too thin and too thick sound - obviously the former being much easier. The soundstage can vary from absolutely not acceptable/sound in skull to near HD800 levels. Quick and snappy bass? Sure. But I've also heard cannons, close to blowing my ears off. Even the treble can be excessively tame, that was my biggest gripe with Code 6 alongside relatively small soundstage.
    Basically the only thing I am yet to hear is a magical, rich, warm midrange like in Kennerton Odins or LCD3s.

    Weirdly enough, I've used auteur pads on all three pairs, somehow I just can't find a better match.
     
  19. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    [​IMG]

    My old HE6 headband snapped off and then the superglue I used to hold it together wouldn't hold. Many of you at the previous SoCal meet probably had a humourous experience related to this.

    Happy to say that, with the help of @MisterRogers (who sent me these cups / headband free of charge), my recently re-tuned modded 4-screw HE6 is kicking again! Now with Mini-XLRs and solid wood cups (without those nasty resonating cavities that the plastic housing has). I have some prototype Rosson oval pads on there too.

    Before you ask, the cotton gauze is for protection from particles given these cups don't support grills. Doesn't change the sound all too much (might push up 3k slightly). Normally I'd screw it down but this time around it tore up, so I figured I'd just stuff it gently as a temporary solution.

    Apologies for god-awful image quality!

    FR measurements (EARS + SBAF Comp curve, the 5k dip is an artifact and my measurements have a tendency to over-report ~3k // haven't changed my comp curve since my last EARS dump thread) -

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  20. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Get a cheap velcro cable tie and make a loop just a teensy bit larger than the inner diameter. Assuming the tie is moderately thick/stiff, this should be enough friction to hold any covering material in place.
     

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