Eddie Current customer service story

Craig is like Dr. House.

 

That is the bottom line, and if Craig is reading this he'd better learn a thing or two from Jason about getting stuff fixed for the customer. It is also a lesson in how to turn a bad event into good publicity.

We have been spoilt by Amazon, who might well have said throw it away, we'll ship out a new one. Because it is too expensive for them to get it shipped back. Getting the new one is the key thing.

The guy deserves to get what he paid for: working equipment.

By the way... I think that our @Koth Ganesh, of this city (in INdia), received a broken amp from America and simply got our local hifi-repair genius to fix it. This is not always possible with proprietary parts and chips... but does an EC amp contain proprietary chips? I wouldn't expect it. Maybe it left Ganesh a few rupees out of pocket, but it was just the quickest easiest answer.

 

Nice memory, Thad. The amp in question was a power amp, the Odyssey Startos Supreme. I fried a few transistors due to an improper connection. That was relatively easy but re-biasing was an issue I knew nothing about. Klaus Bunge wanted me to send the amp back to Indiana. Fortunately, our common friend was more than capable in fixing the amp completely.

 

Very unfortunate. Something must have jostled loose in transit to the other side of the world. But it's simply not reasonable to hold Craig responsible for a lost package on the way back and I don't understand why you think it is. Those of you suggesting PayPal disputes or credit card charge backs are now on my shit list. Anything Craig does to compensate the sender for something he had no hand in is going way above and beyond. Again, major bummer though. This sucks.

 

Getting something that doesn't work is what sucks. And being put to the trouble of returning it.

Getting his money back might be an option. I think Transferwise was mentioned. Getting money back through them will not be an option: they are simply an international money-transfer service, without any concept of or interest in what it is for.

Amazon has spoilt us, and that might suck for the small business, but nobody made them make the sale.

As long as they have acted in good faith, in consumer disputes, I'm biased towards the customer.

 

Lol. What?

When you sell something to someone you enter into a contract. Craig took OP's money and he delivers a working amp in return. Craig could have very well chosen to refuse the sale. He didn't. He also didn't deliver a working product nor provide clear instructions on how to return the product safely and securely. His place is behind a building? Set up a Fedex account and instruct customers to only use Fedex. Or get something with USPS to request PO holds. It's not rocket science.

As far as I'm concerned, Craig's responsibility ends at delivering to OP a functional amp. Whatever happens afterwards is between OP and Craig. Whatever happens before is 100% on Craig. What is not reasonable is to suggest that OP eat the loss incurred by Craig's unwillingness to provide detailed instructions and get his delivery service in order. If what OP said is entirely true, I will never buy a EC amp again.

I reiterate my recommendation to OP. If you can get the money back, do it. If you can't, keep spreading the word until Craig agrees to resolve this issue in a way you deem satisfactory. Small companies manage this every day and that's just part of life. Craig isn't special.

And it's not just Amazon. Years and years ago I worked at a small audio retailer in Beijing, we mostly did IEMs (UE, Westone, Shure, later on JH and Fitear) and we dealt with this stuff all the time, refits getting lost in the mail or orders delayed by customs. In my time there not once have we left customers unsatisfied regardless of how hard the CIEM builder or the courier dropped the ball. You eat the losses, make the guy not unhappy, and move on.

 

Thanks everyone for supporting messages!

About your case. Sorry to hear that. It is possible that your package got stolen PRECISELY because it was insured and high value was declared. So as you see, even insurance can put you in trouble. As far as my experience with RO post, they are inefficient, bureaucratic, slow, but they never lost any of my packages.

Regarding putting on other forums. I don't feel like doing that. I guess whoever wants to buy EC will read his homework on SBAF.

1. That is totally my impression. Craig seems impulsive and impatient to get rid of the trouble I'm causing him. I guess it's the age. Someone mentioned that he is weary of customer service in recent times. Out of respect for his contributions so far, I was willing to explain everything to him as long as he listens, and not make the story public. I don't know, maybe I should have tried better before posting here.

2. Agree, in case of DOA the rule "customer pays for repair shipping" does not apply.

1. My experience: I once returned some IEMs to China. Seller was very precise about what to write in customs declaration, what value to declare, how to package. He instructed me to throw everything away except the IEMs to make the package as small as possible, to avoid import taxes.

Thanks for this information. This is evidence I was expecting, that USPS had reasons to believe the place is abandoned. An extra reason why Craig should have registered for package updates. I'm sure he doesn't get that many packages to get overwhelmed by emails. In fact when package was not yet officially lost, Craig said he was recently waiting for another package, that didn't get delivered in time. So he got to post office, caused quite a rant, and got it from there. Turns out he learned from my case. He just doesn't want to admit there's something wrong with his work place.

Good example. I was very willing to diagnose/repair the amp locally if he would give me instructions. I have a tech acquaintance. But he said he never encountered this sort of damage so we can understand he didn't know what instructions to give. Yet considering the cost of two-way shipping, he could have tried. In fact, 2 years ago I bought a damaged Trafomatic Head 2 from ebay. The manufacturer, Sasa, helped me debug it for free, even though I didn't buy the amp from him!

 

Should Craig have probably been more sympathetic and understanding to Thoth's cause? of course, he was clearly pretty obstinate in his responses. But that doesnt mean its his fault or even on him to ensure the package makes it to his door, that is on the returner and his business with a carrier. Do i think Craig could have done more to track down the package of such an expensive amp? Yes. But Thoth also should have clarified with Craig more about the return procedure rather than just hucking into the ether on a prayer. I think once he did that, it was on him and not Craig, Craig didnt tell him to do what he did.

It is an incredibly unfortunate situation, and both parties made poor choices, but again, its on the Thoth for how he returned the package. Though i will also agree that Craig should come to at least some sort of understanding with him instead of just stiffing him for the entire thing, but that doesnt mean making him a new amp for free.

EDIT: What i would have done is requested a refund for receiving a broken product and told him i would ship it back once a shipping label was provided. and if he didnt issue the refund, i feel a chargeback would be acceptable.

 

That's cool buddy.

You're a legitimate business and decide to sell internationally for a profit, you're expected to deal with the headaches. That's what businesses do. Successful ones anyway.

 

The big question now is what else can I try to recover my money? Transferwise is just e money transfer service. They don't offer buyer protection. How to convince Craig to save his reputation by coming up at least with some compromise solution? He is probably close to retirement. What sort of arguments will convince him? Those of you who know him personally may help.

 

You're pretty much screwed, not gonna beat around the bush here. You could try to lawyer up but legally Craig can prove he shipped the amp to you and you cant prove it was defective, so he is not legally responsible. As for the post office, you didn't insure the package so that's likely a dead end.

It sucks to hear stories like these.

 

If you used a bank transfer, not much you can do except keep bringing attention to the case.

He has a Yelp page though, maybe you can leave a review of the incident there. Also Twitter/Facebook. As you mentioned, if a particular member here is close to Craig and sympathetic to your case, maybe he/she can reach out on your behalf. I still think that you deserve a new amp or a full refund but, as a matter of practicality, maybe a partial refund or a refurb replacement would be a more mutually acceptable solution.

 

Horse shit. But feel free to prove me wrong if you have a copy of this contract. Otherwise a phantom contract, the terms of which are arbitrarily set by you, is horse shit. Craig might be rough around the edges, but somehow he still has plenty of customers. He agreed to repair the amp, the buyer mailed it, and the shipping company lost it. Plenty of people have sent goods for repair to EC without issue, so no extra instruction should have been needed in this instance. And the shipping company in the origin country would have been the proper party to advise on customs declaration verbiage. The customer fucked up by not insuring this package. Had it been lost on the path from Craig to the customer, that'd be a different story. But it's perfectly reasonable to expect the customer to use common sense when shipping it back across the globe.

If I participate in a loaner tour and ship a $2k DAC without insurance to the next guy but it gets lost, then should I blame @purr1n and let him take the loss?

 

Craig should be responsible for ensuring that amplifier is delivered to you as described in working condition. You received the amplifier damaged and that's on him to refund your payment, regardless of insurance. That amp should never have left California without being fully insured, especially as it was going all the way to Romania. Craig wants to sell to international customers then he shoulders the increased risk involved of potential damage or getting lost in transit. That's why if it was insured Craig can file a claim with the shipper. How the f**k is it the fault of the buyer? That's why the big online marketplaces in their terms of service state that the seller is completely responsible for damage during shipment.

But the thing is he did receive the amplifier in broken condition. Then Craig offered to take it back for repairs. Where I think the OP made the mistake is he should have had Craig agree to pay for shipping and insurance both ways before sending it back. Even then, the seller is responsible for giving the customer a working product. Why should the customer be out the money?

I hear you insurance should have been done (both ways) but I can't fault the OP here.

I once had a CRT monitor shipped to me via FedEx, which was already idiotic to begin with as it weighed close to 120lbs boxed. Of course it arrived broken. But the seller reimbursed my money and filed an insurance claim with FedEx (he didn't get close to what it was originally sold). Why should it be my responsibility to make sure I receive a working product? The seller is the one who is shipping it to me.

 

This is an emotional response. Craig being a dick fuels people's desire to see the OP refunded and Craig stiffed. But the facts don't care about your feelings. Craig was ready to repair the amp, he didn't lose the amp, and the buyer decided on his own not to insure a global shipment. If there is any recourse for the buyer, it is with the shipping company, not with Craig.

 

Yeah... my $0.02:

When Craig sold the amp and agreed to deliver it to Thoth, it should not be rocket science that at this point Craig was responsible for delivering a working amp to Thoth's door. Since the amp arrived broken, it should be on Craig to provide whatever repair service AND shoulder the extra costs of shipping the amp back and forth for said repair.

BUT... since Thoth could not reach an agreement with Craig earlier and decided to ship the amp back himself, choosing also to not insure the package, I'd think that at this point, the responsibility had shifted from Craig to Thoth.

I'm not defending Craig in this case, but clearly, Thoth is entirely responsible for losing the amp, unless I'm reading things wrong.

So ultimately, if anything, Craig may have to reimburse Thoth for shipping costs, and maybe (this is a stretch) whatever he thought the extra repair would have cost but in no way should Craig be responsible for refunding the sale, nor should he be expected to ship Thoth a new amp.

Again, Thoth chose to ship the amp without insurance. I think this is Thoth's fault. Regardless of whether Craig provided instructions or not, Thoth should not have chosen to ship the amp without any insurance like that.

The whole situation sucks but seriously, I don't see how Craig has to be responsible for anything beyond shipping and (maybe) extra repair costs at this point.

 

This has nothing to do with Craig being a dick to the OP either by email or over the phone. A buyer can't do anything with the shipping company, that falls to the seller who originally paid for the insurance and postage.

If I sell to anyone here on SBAF, or Head-Fi, or any other private marketplace where I'm not agreeing to terms and conditions, then it's my responsibility the buyer gets exactly what was described in my listing. I've sold a pre-amp and DAC on here, and if either of those two items were received damaged or lost they would be fully refunded, no questions asked. If I didn't insure it, then that's my problem. If I did then I'll open a claim with the shipper. It's pretty much theft to keep a buyer's money and they don't have the item they paid for.

I think it's crazy that an amplifier that probably cost the OP what a couple grand was not insured to Romania.

But he's responsible for receiving a broken amp?

Sorry buddy but I think you are shit out of luck on this one. If he won't refund your money then I can't think of what else you could do.

 

I think you're reading something else. Here's what I read in summary:

1. Thoth bought amp from Craig.
2. Craig shipped said amp to Thoth.
3. Amp went from Cali to Romania.
4. Thoth received amp in Romania.
5. Amp was broken.
6. Thoth asked and Craig said "sure, I'll fix it if you send it back".
7. Thoth sent amp back to Craig WITHOUT INSURANCE.
8. Amp went from Romania to Cali again.
9. Shitty USPS decided to return packages back to Romania.
10. Shitty USPS lost amp.
11. This is where we are.

So please think about this series of events instead.

 

The point is Craig should've provided a return label and paid for shipping and insurance so thoth could return a defective product he sold him. This did not happen and the customer was forced to ship the amp back uninsured outnof fear he would have to pay for customs fees, on top of other BS fees like "packaging" fees which he wasn't even told about and if refused, would've lost him his deposit. This whole story reeks of unprofessionalism on the part of Craig, period.