How much distortion can you hear?

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    https://www.klippel.de//listeningtest

    I selected the Traci Chapman track using full range speaker option. This is using Magni 3 and Sony MA400 (which has highish distortion in bass).

    upload_2019-12-13_13-29-3.png
     
  2. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Gonna try in a bit. I know that with a 440Hz tone I could hear adding an 880Hz tone 100dB lower in level with my HD800. However maybe there were some weird interactions and what I heard wasn't the -100dB tone. I'll have to try that again.
    Music is a much more interesting experiment, though.
     
  3. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    Relatedly, I thought this site was interesting in driving home how different 2nd order harmonic distortion is from e.g. 7th order, audibility-wise.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I tried with music. They have a tone test too I believe. Fatigue plays a role too.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Magni 3+ (high-gain) and Focal Elex.
    A little bit better than last time.
    upload_2019-12-13_14-24-22.png
    upload_2019-12-13_14-25-40.png
     
  6. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    Distortion Test.PNG
    Second time taking the test, This was fun, but clearly I'm far from "golden ears." Used X-Sabre Pro MQA, Starlett, and Auteur.

    I will say that the first time I took the test, it was the first time I ever did something like this and I sucked balls.
     
  7. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Tried with HD800 and Ragnarok. Took maybe 3-4 practice runs before I even started to comprehend what to listen for. In the beginning I was failing at -19dB or so, LOL. Without comparing it to the distorted one I was sure the original was the already distorted one.

    Well, the test seems to top out at -54dB and after getting it correct 3 times in a row it sent me to the results screen.
    Klippel - full range speaker - Music T. Chapman.png
    Trying the multi-tone test in a bit. Although honestly these kind of tests suck, so maybe not tonight.

    One thing I learned is to not set the volume level too high and I found it easier to listen for the higher frequencies and her voice rather than trying to listen to the bass. Her singing the second "baby" and the "tonight" at the end were the most obvious differences for me.
    Also for some reason I could've sworn that one of the tracks always started a bit earlier, although I do not remember which. I couldn't really figure it out, so maybe it's just me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  8. skem

    skem Friend

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    Yeah...The baseline file in the music test is unbearable to begin with. Gave it a shot on my iPhone, AirPlay streamed to my stereo, and got only to -27dB before hearing differences but being unsure which was the “distorted” one. I’d like to try this with a proper setup.

    9ABC4C1F-C518-41ED-800D-72404C322938.png

    p.s. #5 was a fumble fingers misclick.
     
  9. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Another variable perhaps? Some difference in tonality maybe?
     
  10. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Welp, I also quickly gave the 70Hz 800Hz IMD test a shot, but I found it really easy. Not sure how so many people could get it wrong, I got it right on the first try. The bass note just sounds different to me.
    Klippel - full range speaker - two-tone 70Hz 800Hz.png
    I'll say that I'd put them in 3 discrete levels of difficulty though: 0-33dB is immediately obvious, 39-51dB is still not that hard and 57-69dB took some concentration. Oh and don't listen to the files for too long or else you won't be able to tell any difference. I found it easiest to listen to each for 1 second maximum. The sines are not nice to listen to!

    @mkozlows I also tried the files on the site you linked. I think it's a quick test to see how 2nd order compares vs 3rd, but I found none of the files there even remotely difficult to discern from the undistorted one.
     
  11. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Wait, why does the 0dB file say "Real Speaker"? Are we listening to added distortion after an output of a real speaker? That would explain why they all sound so shitty, but does this mean that at -69dB it's really just adding a tiny amount of extra distortion to the already probably distorted signal? Why doesn't masking, well, mask it?
     
  12. PTS

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    Listening to test on speakers at moderately low volume. Once I got to -15db, it became difficult to hear the difference between samples.
     
  13. RedFuneral

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    -30db with the Ragnarok > Hifiman Edition XX
     
  14. Soliloqueen

    Soliloqueen Friend

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    -51 on my first test, Magni 2 and HD6xx
     
  15. Ardacer

    Ardacer Friend

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    It's cool how you can easily see the Gauss bell in these graphs. Meaning it's a natural distribution (I'd say, it's to be expected) and it would be relatively easy to do a proper parametric analysis on this data and get some nice results.
     
  16. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    Not bad for my first test
    test1.PNG
     
  17. Superexchanger

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    Pretty interesting. No familiarity with the test or the music sample, but I picked "Music J. Stone" for the test as I have a hunch I'd be more sensitive to the modulations with a bass-forward sample.
    Setup was PC > SU-1 > Holo Cyan > Meze Empyrean. Listening level was "typical" (probably around 75 dB?).

    Didn't expect the result. I'm interested to try this with other gear and my 2-channel setup to suss out my (in)sensitivities there.

    Was able to "back" into this screen after the test results to show where the test called bullshit on my answers, then was satisfied that I'd achieved distinguishability
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. fastfwd

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  19. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    AudioTest 2.PNG

    AudioTest.PNG
     
  20. Superexchanger

    Superexchanger Friend

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    Also, and apologies for the diversion here, but this is in my head and I just need to get it out:
    [​IMG]

    ahh, much better.

    (all in good humor, @Serious :) )
     

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