Lyr 3 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by neogeosnk, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. malenak

    malenak New

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Slovakia
    What do you think about Lyr3 with Arya, HD800S or HE6SE?
     
  2. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Does anyone have a LISST they'd be able to send/sell/trade me?
    I've read a few impressions here that weren't terribly favourable, but I'm simply curious.
    p.s. I'm in Canada
     
  3. phant0m

    phant0m New

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    New England
    holy schiit is the default/stock tube on the Lyr 3 bad. i just replaced it with a $23 EH 6SN7 and the difference is night and day. noticeably better detail and low end extension in my LCD-2
     
  4. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,426
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Heard this yesterday, and I think he's onto something.

    This is a very "tubey" sounding tube. If you want something clean and incisive, this may not be your best bet, but it has that tube magic that can make you fall in love with the sound.

    The most outstanding feature was the depth and layering. I've rarely heard the 650s stage sound quite that deep. Very seductive with laid back and expansive music (Bon Iver, etc.).

    I'd take this every time over the Psvane and TS tube I used when I owned the Lyr.
     
  5. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7,985
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver BC
    Risking taking the thread sideways: have either of you tried the RCA in your Vali 2s? If so - similar impressions?
     
  6. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,426
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have not.

    @rtaylor76 ...is it even compatible?
     
  7. monacelli

    monacelli Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    The Land of Enchantment
    Yes, Vali 2 runs nicely with 6CG7s. If I recall correctly, @baldr was the first one who started rolling them in his Vali 2. Out of the handful of tubes I've tried in my Vali 2, I like NOS 6CG7s the best. They have better extension at both ends and a more neutral (less warm) tonality than the GE 5670. The new production Electro Harmonix 6CG7 had an unnatural coloration to my ear, something I couldn't quite put my finger on.

    With respect to the Lyr 3, I don't think I would specifically seek out a 6CG7, which is effectively a miniaturized 6SN7 (albeit with a shield between the two triodes). I suppose if you have one laying around, or it's not possible to find a NOS 6SN7 at a decent price, then it would make sense. Otherwise I would be keen to skip the adapter and use an octal tube. I basically did the reverse with my Vali 2, experimenting with NOS 6SN7s using an adapter. That kind of thing can be fun, but it looks a bit silly and it seems like all the readily available adapters are of questionable quality. As usual, ymmv.
     
  8. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    You can use a 6CG7 in a Vali 2. It has just enough current for the heater..just enough. I have the EH 6CG7, a Sylvania, and the RCA. I don't recall the RCA being totally awesome in the Vali 2, but I will try again and post in the Vali 2 thread.

    Because it IS a miniaturized version of the 6SN7, it makes it electronically equivalent in every way and a perfect choice to try. And yes, decent 6SN7's have gotten some right slilly prices, but the 6CG7 is readily available for next to nothing. I think my Sylvania one that sounded worse actually cost more than the clear top RCA. However, the RCA 6CG7 sounds better than any of the 6SN7's I have tried (Sylvania, 50's Tung-Sol, 40's Ratheon, 50's RCA silver label, Psvane (as @Skyline mentioned).

    Also, not all 6GG7's have the shield between the triode sections, and ones without it are technically 6FQ7's, but they were so NOT used, the 6CG7 indication stuck.

    "RCA and GE (having bought Ken-Rad in 1945) heavily pushed miniature tubes after the war, and many miniatures were designed-in where octals or loctals would have been the natural choice....The 6CG7 was unique in having a shield between the two sections. This was removed as a cost-cutting measure in the 6FQ7." https://www.effectrode.com/knowledge-base/the-6sn7gt-the-best-general-purpose-dual-triode/

    Although that article says that many audiophiles still preferred 6SN7's, but that is just conjecture. Truth is, it did not catch on as widespread as the 12AU7 and other 12A*7 variants for being smaller and requiring half as much heater current.
     
  9. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    12,569
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I got a used Lyr 3 on here back in January and despite having a box full of NOS 6SN7s I haven’t bothered to roll tubes at all. Just put in a 1960 GE but won’t be able to listen tonight, hopefully soon.
     
  10. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    12,569
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I found the GE didn’t emotionally involve me as much as the new production TS, so I swapped it back in. I am truly impressed that a new production tube could sound so good. I plugged in my FD-01’s to the Lyr tonight, intending to just listen to a track or two because it had been almost a year since I’ve used the Lyr with the JVCs (normally I use my HD580s), and I ended up spending over an hour listening, which is a lot of dedicated listening for me these days.

    First off, the Lyr really brings out the best in the FD-01s. The power and muscle are evident but what impressed me is how controlled it all sounds. And the tonality feels rich without being mushy or overdone. The details and micro dynamics are just stellar. I could hear the strain in Prince’s voice as he hits falsetto of “The Beautiful Ones”. I could almost feel Steve Howe’s fingers plucking the strings of his guitar in “Roundabout”. And no matter how busy or layered the music got, the Lyr reproduced everything clearly and with a sense of space between the instruments.

    The emotional connectivity of this amp is very high. I was transported into the music and forgot the world around me while I was listening. That’s special.

    The Lyr 3 just keeps impressing me. It’s actually making me want to try more headphones with it, an urge I haven’t had since I’ve gotten the JVCs and the 580. And I absolutely love that I can get a great tube for it for under $30.
     
  11. malenak

    malenak New

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Slovakia
    Very nicely said!
     
  12. Pescatore

    Pescatore New

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Near Boston
    I ordered a Lyr 3 over the weekend with the TS. As of this afternoon, the only tube being offered on the Schiit store is a JJ 6SN7. So not sure which tube I'll end up with, but has anyone heard the JJ 6SN7 in the Lyr3, and if so, can you offer any impressions vs the TS and stock Russian NOS?

    Edit: I was incorrect. I did order a JJ over the weekend, but it was an upcharge. It is now the default tube for the Lyr 3. Trying to work things out with Schiit now over this. And now more confused over which tube options I’ve been reading about. Is the JJ the stock Russian tube folks have been referring to?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  13. will_f

    will_f Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Likes Received:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    Can’t help you re the JJ tube, but the original stock russian tube looks like this:


    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lcGmyqFuxQM3FuUjQbA0vxBEdDpdFJQX/view?usp=drivesdk

    Note the original T-S upgrade tube was also russian:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_Z9KCT1aag81WrhN5HXK8C4a-1vLMG1S/view?usp=drivesdk


    Edit: can’t get pics to show
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  14. Pescatore

    Pescatore New

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2018
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Near Boston
    OK, neither of those looks like the JJ 6SN7 on Schiit's store so probably a different tube. They actually list it as a replacement for Saga. Will form my own impressions once it arrives and share.
     
  15. will_f

    will_f Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Likes Received:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    IME the stock Russian tube isn’t bad at all. I’m interested to hear what you think of the JJ but I’m sure it will sound decent. The Lyr 3 does well with most tubes, though I never heard an RCA tube I liked with it (lifeless comes to mind). I liked the T-S reissue a little more than the stock Russian but that wasn’t a universally shared opinion. I thought the NOS Sylvania’s from the 1950s were darn good (the famous “Bad Boy” being one of my favorites).
     
  16. malenak

    malenak New

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Slovakia
    I have all of the mentioned ones. The JJ, TS, Russian stock and also Electro Harmonix and PsVane CV181T MKII. From all of them I highly prefer PsVane tube. JJ is my second favourite. TS has better soundstage like the JJ but it sounds dry comparing to JJ. JJ is sweet and full sounding tube. I like it. But, the PsVane is on another level comparing the others.
     
  17. will_f

    will_f Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Likes Received:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    I’ve been using the Psvane myself for the last 6 months or so. I find it a jack of all trades. It’s good at everything though not the best in any one area except possibly imaging which it does very well indeed. It’s not the most dynamic tube but it still rocks pretty hard. I have a new DAC so if I get time in the next week or so I’ll go through all my tubes and see if the new DAC changes my preferences.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  18. will_f

    will_f Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Likes Received:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    See below for my subjective opinions on the tubes within easy reach. The first two is what the Lyr 3 came with at the time I bought it. The rest I picked up later. All the tubes sound good when they’ve had at least 20 hours of break-in. The difference from one to the other are relatively small and are a matter of personal preference as much as anything.


    Russian NOS: Not super impactful but great neutral tonal balance. Great high end- smooth, detailed, but not at all fatiguing and doesn’t feel rolled off. Mids are quite engrossing and detailed. Deep thick bass with no bloat or bloom. Soundstage is medium width with good placement of instruments. Very realistic rendering of voices and instruments.


    New TS 6NS7 GTB: fantastic mids right from the start. Perfect for voice and guitar. Lots of air. The highs are clean and smooth. Good detail and resolution. Lows are meaty like a Prime steak but a hair loose. Upper bass is like a warm soft blanket on a cold night. Not as neutral sounding as the Russian NOS. More tubey with a very polished and smooth character. Basically a great big euphonic sound.


    1953 NOS TS: great impact and good soundstage. Mids come across as a touch forward and upper bass has a little bloom. Great, super solid low end. A fairly tubey sound (in a good way). Good percussion accompanying string plucks. Soundstage is wide, deep and stable. Guitars sound awesome. Needs more burn in time than the tubes Schiit furnishes for the top to soften and lose its dryness (at least 70 hours).


    Sylvania Bad Boy (two hole version): BIG dynamics, deep, tight bass with no bleed. Not as detailed and clear as the Psvane but very good with the sweet musicality great tubes can bring. Excellent wide sound stage with decent depth. Very enjoyable rendering of instruments and voices, with a rich euphony that makes it easy to listen to for extended periods. This tube is a tube lovers tube, but it’s also very technically capable. If you want the Lyr 3 to sound like a really top notch tube amp, this is a good choice.


    Psvane CV 181 T Mk II: Drier and less dynamic than the Bad-Boy but still dynamic. Extremely detailed and clear. Not as rich sounding as the Bad boy. More neutral, Absolutely outstanding imaging with better soundstage depth but slightly narrower than the Bad-boy. Great, deep bass and clean, crisp non fatiguing highs. An excellent tube for classical, jazz and anything where accuracy and clarity have a high value. It’s not analytical by any stretch of the imagination but it’s also not very tubey sounding. Still, it’s my favorite by a small amount over the bad boy thanks to its impressive imaging, clarity and detail.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  19. dematted

    dematted Friend

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2019
    Likes Received:
    2,161
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York
    Lyr 3: A Positive Review

    Some of you may have noticed that I've been having a bit of audio nervosa about amps lately. I wanted something in the $200-600 price range that could bring my HD 600 and Elex to the next level. Well, I think I found precisely what I needed. That's not to say this amp is perfect and flawless - it's not. But it's heads and shoulders above all the other amps I've heard thus far. For reference, I've listened to the following six amps besides the Lyr 3: JDS Atom, Asgard 3, Magni 2, Magni 3, Magni 3+, and the Liquid Spark. I'm using my Lyr 3 with a normal Modi 3, and am streaming Tidal through Roon, for anyone who is curious. I'm also using the Tung Sol tube.

    Now, let me explain why this amp blows away all the others that I've owned.

    The HD600/Lyr 3 Pairing

    I like my HD600, but it's a headphone that I always thought had some definite limitations: a small, intimate soundstage, a lack of punchiness and dynamics, as well as a difficulty in responding to the deepest sub bass frequencies. The Lyr 3 has corrected these problems, especially the first two. This is an amp that somehow manages to be simultaneously laid-back and impactful with the HD600. One of my worries with pairing an HD600 with a tube amp was that there might be an excessive smoothness that, while helping achieve a coherent sonic presentation, would stop notes from popping out of the soundstage in a pleasing, impactful way. I found that the Lyr 3 in fact, had the opposite effect. With the Lyr 3, I felt that the HD600 became livelier, more dynamic, and more punchy. I also find that the soundstage (or at least the sense of soundstage) is significantly expanded. The music feels more enveloping and "larger", and has a sense of dimension and scale that it did not possess with normal, solid state amps. I can only assume that this is what people refer to as the "tube" sound.

    If there's any drawbacks to this amp, it's probably the bass-presentation, and a slowness on certain songs. I'm not saying that this amp is a slow or undetailed amp as a totality: on the contrary, I feel like this amp is significantly more detailed than any amp I've listened to yet. And transients seem strong, too, if not quite as quick as with my Magni 3+. But it seems like it times, this amp lingers on certain notes, drawing them out just a little bit. As a result, some music (though not all) can feel somewhat slowed down.

    As for the bass, it's quite well-textured and pleasing sonically, but I feel like it's not as tight as it is on some of my solid-state amps. There's a "bloom" (though I don't want to exaggerate it) that makes it bleed into the mid-range ever-so slightly. Thankfully, I do not think this negatively effects the impact of the bass, something that is very important. Bass feels roughly as impactful as it does on my Magni 3+, and more impactful than on the Asgard 3, JDS Atom, or Liquid Spark.

    The Elex/Lyr 3 Pairing

    The Elex is a wonderful headphone, but it's one with a lot of flaws and a very unique sonic presentation. I've found that though it's not difficult to power, it responds very differently to different amps. This means that, for me at least, it's "amp-finicky". I've found that the best amp I've paired the Elex with so far has been the Magni 3 (and 3+). With the Liquid Spark, JDS Atom, and Asgard 3, I was disappointed with the sound that the Elex put out. The Liquid Spark made the Elex a bit too laidback in the treble and lack a bit of body, the JDS Atom made the Elex sound overly clinical, and the asgard 3 killed a lot of the Elex's macrodynamics and slam. I was on the search, basically, for a super-magni 3. And boy did I find it.

    The Lyr 3 does several things to the Elex. For one, it tones down its often unnaturally aggressive sonic signature just a touch without making it lose any of its dynamics. I'm not sure quite how it does this, but like I said earlier, the Lyr 3 is an amp that manages to both make music sound very impactful and lively without making it sound artificially aggressive and incisive. I also found that it made the Elex sound a bit less lean: whereas the Elex always had a lot of perceived body to its sound because of dynamics, often its timbre notes would have a somewhat metallic sheen, and at times vocals would sound less than fully fleshed out. No more with the Lyr 3. I find that, like the HD600, the soundstage also sounds more realistic, although it isn't necessarily expanded as much.

    So what are the problems? Compared to solid-state amps, I feel that there is a certain lack of ultimate crispness in the sound, especially in the treble notes. While with the Magni 3+ the treble could be somewhat fatiguing, with the Lyr 3 I sometimes feel as if the upper harmonics are a little lacking. Because of this, I actually found that classical music was not rendered quite to my liking with the Lyr 3 + Elex combo. I felt in particular that the treble extension suffered a bit. To use a term that's often thrown around, I did not feel like there was much "airiness" to the sound, particularly strings. Some other people have mentioned in this thread that the Lyr 3 does not have good layering: while I don't agree with this, I do feel like it is a fairly intense amp, which throws a lot of sound at you, and that can sometimes result in it feeling just a tad congested. But when I focus on the sound, I find it's quite easy to pick out the different instruments.

    Conclusion

    Overall, this amp made both the Elex and the HD600 sound exponentially better. Of course, there are problems with this amp, but I find that the compromises it makes at its price point are the right ones. I used to be a skeptic that amps could really transform headphones: the lyr 3 has made me a believer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  20. will_f

    will_f Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Likes Received:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for sharing your insights. My experience with the Lyr 3 is very similar.

    One of the nice things about tube amps is that you can tweak the sound a bit to your preferences and I think you would benefit from a little tube rolling. My hearing my not be as good as yours (I’m 54 and can’t hear above 15 kHz) so my perception may be different, but for me the Psvane CV181 T Mk II is significantly more detailed across the spectrum, less bloomy in the upper bass, and it’s pretty much guaranteed to improve the 3D imaging. It’s an expensive tube and there are a number of more reasonable priced vintage tubes out there that would probably also do the trick, so I would recommend looking to see what other forum members would recommend given what you like and don’t like re the T-S.
     

Share This Page