Oblivion | UltraSonic Studios

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Maxx134, Jun 10, 2019.

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  1. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    There may be no company, there may be no pitch meetings, but I feel you might have missed the point for the fletching. The reason people are put off is that Maxx was acting as if this amplifier were the second coming of Jesus Christ Himself, a proper apartment-priced amp killer, and given how relatively few people have gotten ears on this and how those who have (with some exceptions) all say while it's an excellent amp it isn't good enough to make A'Tuin start break dancing and isn't the complete reinterpretation of amplifier design it was touted as, I can understand why there's some snippiness.

    Given anecdotes of how well it does with Fostex et al my curiosity's been piqued since news of this first broke wind, never mind that I've already got my eyes set on another amp I'm pretty sure is close enough to my personal endgame that I could well be done upgrading for years at least; new things are always exciting, after all. That said the sheer hypebeasting going on is reminiscent of why I've long gotten sick of HF and certain other online fora dedicated to hobbies outside of audio.

    People whom I don't believe are entirely deaf or shills have said good things about the Oblivion and I like how it looks (yes that's something I consider in purchases) so in spite of, and not because of, all the excessive and kind've childish hype this has been getting, I'd still love to get ears on one of these eventually, but pending a direct comparison to commonly-recognised TOTL amps it's occupying a space in my mind that has it pegged more as an academically interesting design than something to revive the Dead Sea.

    Speaking of significant events in that general area, I'm up at 3AM watching over a slow cook. It's a time to spend with the people we give a crap about and not letting our heckles get raised by goings-on in an internet forum. Wishing your audio projects well, ST, and that all the hobbies are going swimmingly :p

     
  2. SonicTrance

    SonicTrance MOT: Ultrasonic Studios

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    @Lyander
    I haven't missed the point. I realize that it can seem like Maxx comes on strong but I'm not going to give him a hard time for it. Because I know that, for him, Oblivion is the best thing since sliced bread! That's his opinion. Does that mean everyone else is going to feel the same? Of course not. But it doesn't mean Maxx's opinions are "wrong" either. They're just listening impressions. That's it. Lets leave that there.

    Ok, if you have any other questions, not regarding anyone's listening impressions, go for it :)

    If you're looking for more comparisons you should check head-fi. I recently built another review amp that has just reached a guy in Australia!
     
  3. skem

    skem Friend

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    @SonicTrance
    We’ve had some nice reviews of Oblivion from members. Your website suggests Citadel will dry-out the sound a bit compared to Oblivion:

    I’m not that clear on what you meant here. I understand balanced amplifiers get rid of common-mode noise on the input. But what else is going on? Are you getting some even-order cancellation as in a PP design, where this results in a signature dominated by odd-order distortion? Are you getting less distortion overall because gain devices work less hard? Are you getting more distortion because of imperfect matching? Can you share a little bit about the root causes of the different sound signatures—and maybe say a little more about the signature difference itself?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  4. SonicTrance

    SonicTrance MOT: Ultrasonic Studios

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    The major difference between Citadel and Oblivion is the input stage. In Oblivion there's a SE input stage, grid biased with a gyrator plate load. While that stage sounds very good it still lets some H2 through. Creating some of the old "tube sound".
    In Citadel the input stage is a balanced LTP stage with a CCS tail and gyrator plate loads. Not much H2 is passing that stage.

    Those are the design causes for the different sound signatures. I'll say though that they do sound similar, but definitely not the same.

    I wish the designer, MrCurwen, could jump in here. He would have a much better and detailed answer for you! Though, I haven't heard anything from him in about 7 months.

    I myself are not great at describing sound with words, unfortunately. This is why I built another review amp. I hope you got some useful info at least.
     
  5. Phantaminum

    Phantaminum Friend

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    There’s nothing wrong again with how Maxx feels about the amp. Its a great amp and it should be heard by more people. It’s the approach that causes people to be put off. When you approach things as the amp being the next best thing since sliced bread, especially on this forum, you’ll receive a very big dose of healthy skepticism. Yes, topology, implementation, and measurements matter but in the end, putting it in people’s hands who have heard more than a few amps means more here.

    Vtory and myself feel it’s a fantastic amp for the price. The reason I drove 45 minutes to drop it off and then another 45 to pick it up was because his voice carries more weight than mine. This isn’t discounting what Maxx is saying, again it’s more of people trusting him more than Maxx, and hell, myself even.

    I’m more than willing as well to put up my amp for a loaner tour. @purr1n is also kicking around the idea of purchasing the amp for a loaner. That in itself speaks a lot so don’t feel like your amp is being attacked or that Maxx doesn’t deserve to feel he does. It’s just the method of execution that’s causing people to be put off.
     
  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I'm hoping that @ChaChaRealSmooth gets his hands on this amp some day soon.

    Things have changed since I evaluated Oblivion. When I raved about this amp, there was virtually no competitor in this price bracket. Now there appear a few super stars at slightly upper or much lower price points -- Starlett for 2k usd, Asgard 3 for 199 usd (formerly 149 usd.. damn why did I miss that chance??) , and SW51 for 350 usd (as far as I remember). I purposely listed these amps as all of them (Oblivion included; and excluding Starlett which I have zero experience to date) satisfy my requirement of "buy it and never look back". I don't mean all these are in the same league though.

    That said, Starlett vs Oblivion could be an interesting shootout to me. Similar price range, similarly believed as "no need to have $$$ tubes", similarly looking beautiful, etc etc. And I can't think of any other appropriate reviewer than him who fulfills three specific conditions: (1) having zero, low, or easily transformable prejudice/bias, (2) compatible chains, and (3) predictive evaluations (for my preference).
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm thinking the closest competition pricewise and maybe even soundwise would be the ECP Torpedo 3 with all the trimmings: CCS and the Cinemag OPTs - but the again, that's mostly a DIY deal. This were extremely popular a few years ago and could be considered similar to the BW in presentation (essentially a slightly more resolving and bigger headstage BW), depending upon tube compliment.

    I would disagree that parts quality, namely OPTs, doesn't matter for parafeed designs. The Cinemag > Edcor on the T3. And I would also argue that parafeed is a different, but hardly a superior approach to SE OPTs, and definitely not revolutionary. The only thing I would agree is that the OPTs for a parafeed design would cost much less since they don't need to worry about DC. Heck, the quality of the caps before the OPTs matters too.

    Here is the T3
    [​IMG]

    I figure if the Oblivion is anything like the T3, it would be quite fantastic for the price, considering its sexy looks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    @SonicTrance: What are your current build times for Oblivion and what is approximate shipping cost to California? I realized this could actually be a fantastic amp for my JBL 4698b speakers.

    How do the RCA sub outputs work? Will selecting this option ground the secondaries on the OPT?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  9. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    @Maxx134 Thank you for sharing your opinions. I'm not going to crucify you for being excited, keep doing what you're doing and don't let the pessimism deter you for future posts. Cheers!
     
  10. SonicTrance

    SonicTrance MOT: Ultrasonic Studios

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    Parts quality will always matter. What I, and the designer, says is that "boutique audiophile" parts are not necessary for HiFi reproduction with this design. That's the main purpose of this design and also the "sales pitch" if you will.
    Granted, I've not tried using Lundahl OPT's for example. I'm rolling with what my mentor has taught me. Of course the price would go way up with those OPT's which would defeat the purpose somewhat. But hey, I'm willing to try it out if anyone wants to.

    Again, for a traditional series feed OPT output you'll need to use high priced stuff for great sound. And no, this is nothing revolutionary.

    Right! I have experimented with different caps, especially in the parafeed position and I stick with the Russian MBGO's. The Russian caps are hard to beat at their price! There's some slight SQ differences when rolling those caps but that's mainly regarding to the capacitance. 4uF gives almost flat response from 20Hz - 20kHz, I use 10uF as I think it gives better base, though it doesn't measure better!

    There're some similarities. I used to have schems on the internet but have taken them down. I'm sure you understand.

    I'd say 4-6 weeks and the shipping is $230. I just looked up those speakers and yeah, at 4 ohms Oblivion will have highest power output + they were sensitive. Should be a great match!

    No, they're just line level outputs for active sub. So, they take the signal from the same place the amp takes it i.e. the DAC. I toyed around with the idea of having a proper sub out for passive subs but that will require a separate third channel with input, output stage and OPT. Plus I'd don't have a sub to experiment with, so there's that.

    Edit: Merry Christmas! Or whatever else anyone might be celebrating!!
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I initiated contact via the website for purchase. However I have many questions that I think would be helpful for potential customers.
    • How much for deposit? Do I have to pay for all of it before it is built?
    • What payment forms are accepted and what are terms?
    • What is policy if amp is damaged or dead upon arrival?
    • What shipping company?
    P.S. Thank you for responses as they explain the context. It makes clear to me that it is Maxx who is insane (or overly excited).
     
  12. SonicTrance

    SonicTrance MOT: Ultrasonic Studios

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    Half upfront and other half once it ready to ship. This is so I can pay for parts etc before I get started and not be left hanging, so to speak.

    Bank transfer is preferred. But I also take PayPal "friend". Normal PayPal is too expensive as the fees ad up to about 10%. With "friend" international transfer the fees are about 4% for me. I can live with that.

    If the amp is DOA and we can't figure out whats wrong with it and fix it. You can send it back to me for repair at my expense. Then I'll ship it back to you, again at my expense. So in other words, it better not be DOA! :)

    As far as warranty goes. If something would unlikely happen to the amp within one year of purchase, and you have followed my (very basic) instructions, I can repair it for free but I can't pay for shipping.

    I use Swedish PostNord. They deliver via USPS in the US.

    You're welcome! I'm glad we got it sorted out!
     
  13. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    PP Friends and shipping USPS?

    No thanks.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    We came to a suitable arrangement on the PayPal fees. The transaction will be done on the level as per sale of goods. This is also because I have a business account with PP, so I can't fart or skirt around with stuff like this. I know PayPal gets mad and will eventually punish people for categorizing their transactions improperly.

    I'm working out possible arrangements for UPS, but am willing to use USPS as a fallback. I would be right on it and register for shipment notifications. :)
     
  15. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    I’ve been intently watching the Head-Fi thread and know of at least two amps to make it to the United States without issue. @SonicTrance can confirm. I also can’t wait to hear @purr1n impressions of Oblivion compared to Aficionado which I know and loved.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    We'll be shipping the loaner out to the usual suspects, including yourself, and then on to the Colorado, and then NY crew. I'll get together with @ChaChaRealSmooth and compare to his Starlett. My bet is that it will be different. SE vs. parafeed PP, just different sound, and on top of that DNA has its house sound.

    ECAF didn't work on my speakers well because the OPTs were designed with 8-ohms and up in mind, so lots of power loss into the 4-ohm woofers I've got. I'll check to see if Craig has a Studio Junior (with the feedback because 300B sound is a bit too much "300B" for my tastes).
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  17. SonicTrance

    SonicTrance MOT: Ultrasonic Studios

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    I just looked up UPS and FEDEX and those are crazy expensive from Sweden to the US. About double for FEDEX and even more for UPS. And they wont let me insure it because it contains home electronics!

    Right! I use "EMS international express" but it's still USPS that does final delivery. It has gone smoothly so far! And I can insure it no problems.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    EMS/USPS is fine. It's just my local post office. I will make proper arrangements.
     
  19. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    That just sounds bizarre to me. I have shipped DACs and headphones internationally via UPS / FedEx, with insurance, without issue. I wonder why they would not insure for you? Not being snide, just honestly curious.
     
  20. SonicTrance

    SonicTrance MOT: Ultrasonic Studios

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    It sounds bizarre to me too! Here's what they say:

    "Below are examples of materials that cannot be insured against transport damage, regardless of standard insurance or supplementary insurance:

    - All electronics (TV, radio, amplifiers, all things that use electricity etc.)

    - Porcelain / glass (glass, cups, plates, washbasins, toilets, sculptures, etc.)

    - fragile goods / goods that are susceptible to impact"
     

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