Denafrips Venus R2R DAC Review

I'm about as ready as I'll ever be to post my thoughts and impressions of the Denafrips Venus. I'll tell you straight away that you'll get no measurements, no graphs, and zero scientific data from me. This is a purely subjective record of events, my impressions, opinions, and a little speculation. My thoughts are offered free of incentives, kickbacks, or other favors. Your mileage may vary.

Alvin was very generous to send me a Venus to audition and to take along with me to a recent G2G at a friend's home in Bothell, WA. As of that G2G (this past Saturday), the Venus had just ~160 hours of burn in. It was pretty obvious to me and the other attendees that it hadn't yet opened up, so we were not experiencing its full potential. Despite this, it performed very well IMHO.

The reason for the G2G was to celebrate the purchase of my new Daedalus Audio Apollo speakers. Lou Hinkley of Daedalus had already broken in the speakers for close to 400 hours at his showroom in Ferndale, WA because he wanted them to be ready for this G2G. I took the Venus DAC. Other DACs were taken by various attendees. The other DACs were a Metrum Octave, Metrum Pavane, two modded MP-D2 DACs (modded with different caps and different tubes), and a Lampizator Atlantic (bal/vol - I think)

[This next portion was copied from my post on another forum and edited a bit by me.]

Once we arrived at Greg's man cave, we immediately unpacked the Denafips Venus DAC and connected it to his Mac Mini and his preamp. Well, we suffered a Mac attack because his Mini didn't feel like talking to the Venus. I think it took a good 45 minutes to figure out which setting was appropriate, but we finally did succeed in getting them talking to each other.

We played several songs using Greg's speakers so he could get a clear idea of how good the Venus is. I'd like to point out that the Venus had just 150 hours burn in, and I've read that anywhere from 200 to 300 hours are needed for it to shine. [I'm still burning it in as I write this - at ~210 hours as of July 28 at 1:30 pm.] I'll let Greg post his thoughts on this combo. Greg's Butler amp belts out something like 200w/ch and these speakers are 96.5dB/8 ohm. Try to imagine the potential there.

After Greg was satisfied with his impressions of the Venus/Super V speakers, we disconnected his speakers and their bass amps in order to set up my new Daedalus Audio Apollo speakers. You can see in the picture that Aldcoll posted that these are not especially large speakers. This is good because I don't have a big living room in my Taiwan apartment. They actually looked kind of small in Greg's big man cave. Did anyone take room measurements BTW? Initially, we positioned the Apollos in the same spots as Greg's speakers. That must have placed them 10 feet apart and 5' from the front wall. [Correct me if I'm wrong.] There was just a little toe in, I think. Not much was necessary because the front baffle is already slanted inward. I'm biased here, so take my impressions with a grain of salt. THESE SPEAKERS ROCK!! See? Only a little bias.

Here is the list of DACs that were present for the day's G2G: Metrum Octave, Metrum Pavane, Denafrips Venus, MP-D2 (2 units with different tubes and caps!), Lampizator Atlantic w/preamp function added. I think that's all, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I forgot one. Throughout the day, we switched DACs in and out to compare this one to that one. And, yes, the Mac threw us some nasty curve balls just when we began getting over-confident. There were nine participants, so there was usually lively conversation, bodies moving in and out, and plenty of distractions. Aren't we audiophiles solitary creatures who just listen for hours at a time?

Important announcement: If I say something less than wonderful about your DAC that you don't like, please remember I'm stating my impression. I'm not attacking you personally. I'm not trash talking your favorite DAC. If you get upset, take a walk or drink a brew. Chill the f#*k out, dude. It's no different from my casually saying I prefer dome tweeters over ribbon tweeters. I'm simply offering my preference. Thank you. End of announcement.

Now where was I? Oh, yeah. I was about to trash talk people's DACs, but ever-so-politely. The Metrum DACs and the Denafrips Venus DAC are R2R DACs. I'm still learning what the means sonically. This was the first time I had ever heard one - let alone three. I can't tell you yet how they sonically differ from 'regular' DACs. I spent more time listening to the Venus, JakeJ's MP-D2, and the Lampi Atlantic than the others. I didn't try to avoid any. It just happened that way. Here is the order in which I like these DACs (least to best):

Metrum Octave
MP-D2 with the oil caps (I think)
Metrum Pavane (didn't listen to it very long)
Venus/JakeJ's MP-D2 (differences, but I wouldn't say one is better than the other)
Lampi Atlantic with preamp upgrade

MCA told me all the upgrades to his Lampi, but I didn't write them down. Perhaps he can remind us here? This DAC stood out from the pack. It is a WOW!! DAC. I get why folks fall in love with this beast of a DAC. It's not cheap though. It's more than double what most of the other DACs cost. Sure, it has an excellent sounding preamp function, which is a big plus if you don't already have a preamp. Mike, do I recall correctly that this DAC costs ~$6500 new?

There was a lovely tube sound coming out of JakeJ's MP-D2 that just made me feel like I'd been sipping a really nice Scotch on a cool winter evening. I'm sure he can fill us in on his tube and caps selections. I can't help but wonder if my adding this to my D Sachs Model 2 tube preamp/D Sachs KT88 Kootenay 120 tube amp combo would create too much tube sound. I probably won't try it, but I might try it with a SS amp someday. Jake, how much would your DAC cost with all the upgrades that you chose? It's worth it in my opinion.

The Venus is a great sounding DAC. It doesn't sound like tubes, but it doesn't sound like solid state to my ears either. I think most of us agreed that it hadn't burned in enough yet, so it hadn't opened up or 'bloomed' yet. Nonetheless, acoustic instruments like guitar, piano, cello, banjo, sax (not my favorite instrument btw), and harp just sound so real to me. I'm not a musician, so I don't describe these sounds like a musician would. The strings vibrate when plucked or struck. There is decay as the sound diminishes. Can I say they're three dimensional sounding? Sure, why not? [I should point out that the Lampi and Jake's MP-D2 impressed me the same way.]

Most of the time the Pavane was in the loop, I was outside chilling with the host. The music had gotten so LOUD by then that neither of us could take more than 30 seconds of it. The fifty-somethings ran out while the sixty-somethings leisurely listened. It doesn't bode well for my next decade.

More info:

With the Venus at over 200 hours now, acoustic guitar is spooky real. Background is black. Drums...I played African Rhythms "The Sands of Molopo" and I could see the drummers beating their drums between my speakers. Last night saw nearly an hour of each of the following artists: Eva Cassidy, Mark Knopfler, Bill Evans, Carlos Barbosa-Lima, Thelonius Monk, Jesse Cook, and The Toure-Raichel Collective mostly in near-field listening. Eva was sitting just two feet from me gently singing songs I've heard dozens of times, but last night I followed the lyrics more closely than before. Was it that she was two feet from me, or was it the now burned in Venus? Dunno.

I like the Venus now after 200 hours. It bothers me that my other DAC (Gustard X20u) is boxed up in my 2nd home in Taiwan, and that I'm unable to compare the two DACs. I'm also well aware the Terminator has been garnering a lot of praise from folks, but I keep asking myself how much I'm willing to spend on a new DAC. Sigh. I've got a couple more days before I decide to buy the Venus or pay to ship it back to Alvin with a request to audition the Terminator in November once I return to Taiwan for the winter.

I guess this is enough. If I skipped anything, or some things aren't clear because the copied text was written mostly to the guys who attended the G2G, by all means ask for clarification. Alvin, I hope you're okay with how I chose to review the Venus, and included impressions of other DACs. Perhaps, if I were a 'pro' reviewer, I'd know to avoid such social gaffs.

Regards,

Michael

 

And just like that, I realized I forgot to say something about what preceded the G2G.

Alan (an audiophile buddy) and I drove to Ferndale to pick up my speakers from Lou. While we were there, Lou asked to connect the Venus to his showroom system (Apollo speakers, Modwright KWA150SE, Gill preamp, Modwright modded Oppo Sonica DAC, and Lou's laptop with a huge store of hi-res music.). The Venus was cold from sitting in my pick up for 5 hours, but it sounded pretty awesome to me especially after 20 minutes with a little warm up. We listened for about 40 minutes before switching back the the Oppo. We played the same songs. I didn't notice enough difference between the two DACs to be able to pick anything out. Lou said he felt the Oppo sounded more tube-like whereas the Venus was a bit solid state sounding.

That's fair, I think. The modded Oppo has a tubed power supply and two tubes in the DAC. The Venus has none. I was pretty impressed. It was a short comparison, but I felt it was educational.

Michael

 

Thanks for the write up and impressions! I'm looking at a D Sachs pre and would love impressions (even via PM is great!).

 

You're welcome. I can write something here about it, but I've already written quite a bit about it in the AC thread dedicated to the preamp. It does everything I want and more for a very reasonable price. I like it so much that I ordered Don's KT88 Kootenay 120 amplifier to pair with my Model 2 preamp. It'll be finished in a few weeks. I'll take the amp and my Apollos to Taiwan in November.

Michael

 

Oh, yeah. Here's another addendum:

I should have pointed out that the Lampizator Atlantic DAC is also an R2R DAC.

This must be the "Year of the R2R DAC" or something.

Hmm. There was one other thing that occurred to me this morning that has slipped my mind. Oh, yeah. I remember. The MP-D2 DACs both come with an uninteresting volume control. How uninteresting? Well, with the volume set to zero and using a separate preamp for volume, the results were as I described above. As soon as we took the separate preamp out of the mix and used the included preamp function of the DAC, the SQ took a nose dive. Music became flat and uninteresting. It was so bad that everyone immediately commented on it. It took just a couple songs for folks to start calling for one of the preamps to be added back in.

In my opinion, Musical Paradise could cut costs by losing the preamp function, or raise the price a bit by including a superior volume pot. What it has now is a poor choice. And, yes, I know they're meeting a price point for marketability. Its having a preamp function is a selling point especially for folks who lack a separate preamp.

Michael

 

Thanks for nice write up. I own Denafrips Ares and very interested in other Denafrips DACs up the ladder. Specially interested in Venus as Terminator will an overkill I think. Have you heard any other Denafrips DACs like Ares or Pontus?

 

Thanks Michael. Hope you guys enjoy the music with Venus @ the G2G.

 

I have posted this on another Denafrips thread, but thought I wouold add it here. At AXPONA in Chicago this year (April 13-15), Gingko Audio in Room 1524, will be comparing all 4 of the Denafrips DACs (Ares, Pontus, Venus and Terminator), one to the others. Check out the AXPONA site for more info on the show.

 

Here is a brief youtube video statement of what will be presented by Gingko Audio in room 1524 at this year's AXPONA audio show April 13-15:

 

Nice review, thanks.
In Italy we had a Terminator demo unit loaner program from Vinshine audio. Then it broke thanks to the great care of shipping companies... before I could audition it. The Venus i think is the second in line and the one that would fit my budget. Not sure how big is the difference either.

 

Hi guy didn’t anyone match Venus with dna Starlett ? How is the synergy ? Please let me know. Thks.

 

Mr. Fong, you should introduce yourself in the introduction tread... and read that thread.

Seeing there are only about 10 or so Starlett's in existence, there is a very low chance anyone has this experience.

I would read the Starlett thread, plenty of impressions with different DAC/headphones.

Good luck

 

Hi

hi , thks. I m just a green horn just trying my luck see any senior here have pair Starlett or other dna amp with denefrips Venus or other denefrips dac. Like to hear there experiences. Becos I m serious considering to buy denefrips dac.

 

I'm going to suggest that both of you find a way to audition a Holo Audio KTE Spring2 or KTE May DAC. I've heard denefrips DACs and Holo Audio DACs, with various amps, including but not limited to:

Cavalli Liquid Crimson and other models
ECP Audio DSHA-3F and T4
Eddie Current Zana Deux SE
Schitt - many models
Zampotech's Shortest Way 51+

My vote, with my wallet is Holo Audio KTE Spring2, due to constraint for single chassis ease of trans-portability. In my opinion, the KTE May is possibly the finest NOS DAC in existence today. Spring2 is very close 2nd.

 

thks atomicbob, I will try. But will you like to share with us your impression of holo audio dac n denafrips dac? Would love to learn from senior here. I have so much to learn from you guys. Thanks again.

 

Please search, this info is all on the site already

 

thks purr........

 

hi Purr, my Starlett just arrived less then a month. Currently is pairing with my Alo cdm dac. Very simple match. I m looking for a simple setup for my headphone listening. My headphones collection are ZMf Autuer, Auzede LCD Xc n Beyerdynamic T1v1 n Andromeda. I m happy with Starlett. The sound is nice .Just feel that the bass/slam side a little weak n want it to be less warm. My friend recommend me to change some tube and look for a good dac.

i m really quite new in tube amp, so much thing don’t know n not sure. I start getting into headfi with Beyerdynamic t1 with. Centrance m8. Then I change to alo cdm. Then increase to xc n later auteur. Hope my simple introduction will help. Honestly , I just like to enjoy music ( Chinese, Korean, Japanese, English ... pops, a little jazz, a little instrumental ). But I can’t afford to buy many hifi equipments like amps , dacs , n so on. So I try to find the balance the min equipments with best sound.

please excuse me , if I didn’t used the correct terms or words to describe sound or equipments. I am just a simple guy just looking for a nice song to enjoy at home.