Grado Love or the RS2 (TTVJ Deluxe Pad) Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. burnspbesq

    burnspbesq Friend

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    For many of us who are of a certain age, Grados were part of the journey.

    i got a pair of RS2 in about 2007. Initially, I plugged them into some of Tyll’s house-brand gear, and they sounded fabulous. I swapped out Tyll’s amp for tubes (a Ray Samuels Raptor, remember them?), and they still sounded fabulous. Then I got my first big-boy gear—Ayre QB-9 and Bryston BHA-1–and I started to wonder whether the Grados might be the limiting factor. At about that time, a dealer that no longer exists loaned me a pair of strange-looking, newfangled Senns, and that was it for the Grados.

    I still have those 800s, gloriously unmodified.
     
  2. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    These pads from Geekria look interesting:
    https://www.amazon.com/Geekria-Repl...a+grado&qid=1582660752&sr=8-5#customerReviews

    I bought some other Geekria pads to try with my Symphones v9, and I found the foam is much less dense than my Grado genuine bowl pads. Its actually about the same as HD414 pads density. https://www.amazon.com/Geekria-Repl...keywords=geekria+grado&qid=1582660786&sr=8-20

    Besides being far cheaper, the aftermarket pad's softer foam is much more comfortable and compress more (reduced highs). The TTVJ deluxe pads look to be unique in that they are thinnest of all at middle allowing the cups/drivers to lean on ears while the pad is just thick enough at the edges to create some seal or comfort. The Geekria's in my link are their thinnest pad at .6" vs their s-pad (comfys) at .8" or even vs those weird pads I bought at .8". Basically they'll probably be about HD414 thickness but mush a little more in the middle because of the cut-out and hopefully sound more similar to the TTVJ deluxe flats.

    The pics are of 225e with new Geekria pads (second link) vs reverse bowls and HD414.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Claud

    Claud Living the ORFAS dream

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    With all due respect mr. purrin. f**k Grado. You want nice comfortable headphones you can listen to all night long--ZMF.
    Just pick one and be happy.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Well yes, of course. But not everyone can afford ZMF headphones and not all like the Sennheiser veil. I'd like to give options to people who have less, much less to spend.
     
  5. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    @Claud ZMF cans are heavy for people like me. I really like the Eikon but I got rid of it due to weight issues. For some people the Grados will benefit for being a light-weight can. Also, come on $80 is right price for SR60r that's still being made in Brooklyn, which as someone who came from Brooklyn that's nuts.
     
  6. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Remember trying the SR80 and the 225 back in college. Yes, the sound jumped and popped / very energetic, but just wasn't a huge fan of the general sound. I remember really liking Megadeth's Rust in Peace on Grados my first time though... not as much on successive listens, but still pretty fun.

    Biggest issues for college student me (who spent way less money on audio back then) are still the same issues for me today - They don't fit my head well / uncomfortable, sound is too colored and ... interesting, the foam doesn't feel good against skin (especially annoying when it falls apart), small amount of plastic creaking, on ear (for me) instead of over ear, etc.

    On the flip side, for under $200, if you like the Grado sound (or don't mind the Grado trade-offs for under $200) I do still suggest non-audio friends giving them a listen if they just need a general headphones under $150 to $250 though (especially if they don't want to deal with using amp/dac).
     
  7. Claud

    Claud Living the ORFAS dream

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    I stand corrected. Just never heard a Grado I liked, but I only heard two many years ago. None of this has anything to do with the purpose of this thread. Please excuse me crapping on this thread. I will endeavor not to do it again.
     
  8. SeanT

    SeanT Facebook Friend

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    @purr1n, I know you'll be going off memory but how do you feel the RS2e stacks up to the HD650/600 in terms of micro dynamics and detail? I've had the SR80i's for a few days now and that is the only trade-off I'm missing after getting over the lean sound (which will be fixed when I finally get some flat pads).
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    On high-end component chains, the RS2e (+TTVJ Deluxe pads) is just as good as the HD650/600 in terms of plankton. The RS1e is even better than RS2e in terms of microdynamics - however, the TTVJ pads won't work on it - and the RS1e will likely have a frequency response too weird for most.

    On lower end component chains, the RS2e is "better" mostly because of better transient behavior than HD650/HD600 and higher efficiency / lower power requirements. I found the vintage SR80 with the TTVJ pads and custom wood cups not much worse than the RS2e on more modest rigs, e.g. Magni 3+/Modi, iFi iDSD Micro BL, etc.
     
  10. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evaluation-grado-stock-and-modified-ear-pads-0

    I hadn't noticed before but Tyll had measured a comfy w/ hole mod and it didn't turn out like the TTVJ flat versions. So, that Geekria pad I mentioned earlier is probably a fail. Reverse bowls in Tyll's notes say they sound more similar to flats but not as nice and it does appear that way in his measurements. Taped bowls were Tyll's favorites because it was the only pad to squash that 2kHz peak. Taped bowls also added mids like TTVJ, but the highs appear to be even more harsh than stock (225i)! Tyll was not impressed with the flats despite them having the most tamed highs. Purr1n already hypothesized why the 2kHz peak may not be offensive with TTVJ deluxe flats so Im willing to try a $50 foam pad. Because as-is I dont prefer the 225e to Porta Pro.
     
  11. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I've only had the 225e for a few days. First day I listened to them with reverse bowls was okay, then HD414 pads the next which was an improvement. Now on this third day me ears are fatigued so I'm going to take a break from headphones. The Porta Pro I've owned for over a decade and still use so my sound preference is biased that way. I'll need to A/B when rested with HD414 pads on both. It's also the combination of Porta Pro's convenient form factor and price. By the way @purr1n , can I buy you a Porta Pro?
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'll try reverse bowls - get measurements. FWIW, I did not like HD414 pads. It's an improvement over stock pads, but still too lean - really just weird. I've got a project to try to replicate these deluxe flat pads for SBAF members, but only if any interest.
     
  13. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    I'd buy a few pairs of the TTVJ deluxe flat clones if you make some.
     
  14. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    2x on that
     
  15. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Count me down for 2 sets of pairs.
     
  16. Grattle

    Grattle Friend

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    Any news on the deluxe flat pads group buy?
     
  17. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    LOL, gotta find someone who can duplicate first.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The question is this: have you heard a Grado with the TTVJ Deluxe pads and did you look at the huge tonal shift from an upward slope to slight downward slope with these pads compared to the bowl pads per the measurements?

    This is the about the ninth time I've had to explain this. I thought I made this clear a few posts back here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...d-appreciation-thread.8952/page-5#post-290467

    Yes, I too dislike Grados with the stock bowl pads. No duh. But Grados are awesome as is was never ever my argument.

    My argument is that while Grados had a difficult tonal tilt and odd peaks which most people found difficult, they also had some positive properties such as fast transient response, superior clarity (at least to Senns), and superb value in the low of middle lines - and that there was a say to tame the frequency response so that these good qualities can be realized.

    I've effectively demonstrated these good and bad qualities with a variety of measurements. These are not ASR measurements comparing 105db to 121db SINAD for a 1kHz tone where people cannot tell the difference. We talking about that if I put an SR225 with the Deluxe pads on your head in a blind test, you wouldn't think they were Grados.

    I'm not picking on you. However, I am reiterating for the 10th so I don't have to suffer the indignation of yet another person creating a straw man argument that Grados suck.

    The truth is, they do suck in some ways, but they are also awesome in others. And that there exists a means to significantly reduce (but not completely eliminate) the suck while retaining the awesome. The means and method is posed as a "for your consideration". You may still think they suck even after the Deluxe pads because the level of suck reduction was insufficient.

    Statements as such as "From my experience, Grados suck", is hardly a indication that the reader has done any thinking. If the measurements of the Deluxe pads don't make you take pause and make you wonder: "oh, now that's interesting", then there is something wrong with you.

    CS/SBAF was long a measurement site before ASR. The exception was that we focused on measurements that we could hear.

    The only acceptable arguments I can see would be as follows with the Deluxe pads:

    1) Bass not as deep and flat as planars
    2) upper mids and highs still too funky
    3) With the larger woodies: don't care for wood resonances.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  20. Dr J

    Dr J Friend

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    Interested, to resurrect an original RS2 slumbering in the cupboard.
     

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