The Coronavirus Thread

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by purr1n, Mar 16, 2020.

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  1. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    As someone who lives in a town where like half the housing is need by milanese, I only have to look out the window to know:eek:
     
  2. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    I would attribute that dip for a better awareness, people are more likely checking them out when the symptoms start to appear, they're taking things more seriously hence providing medical care sooner and saving more lives.

    I would not expect any drop in total cases any time soon tho :S.
     
  3. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    I don't know that the troubles of Communist countries were for lack of religion in the framework of their constitutions.

    I don't think that you need religion to come up with the idea that stealing ought to be illegal. I don't know why f'ing your neighbors wife even would be illegal, except for maybe religion.

    ...unless, you're black in this country anytime before 1865, or a woman before 1920, or gay today.

    I'd prefer an agnostic system.
     
  4. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    I used to be obsessed by -isms as I prefer to call them. The only -ism that will work in the long-term is the -ism that does not get stuck in dogma which can lead to Catch 22s or Ice-9s. That is difficult to say the least.

    One thing I do appreciate about the remnant works of ancient civilisations, especially from the Levant which have been largely translated and re-interpreted is that at the core:
    • In the old Levant daily life was pretty healthy (you had to do something).
    • Prevention measures were pretty spot on (quarantines and regular bathes were a part of life).
    • Some forms of sewage systems were sometimes in place (too bad that is not mentioned more often).
    • If a certain crop or animal was not trusted, people did not touch it.
    • Diets consisted of more fresh ingredients, generally speaking so people tended to eat better.
    I was the read-the-Bible-every-day-kid. It made sense that Jews and Arabs in some European courts were the preferred physicians. Read about the quarantines in the camp of Mozes, they were serious about disease then.

    The more pragmatic your perspective becomes, the less you focus on -isms. You go Aristotle and think: "what is the cause and what is the effect? Additionally what can I empirically confirm and/or measure?"

    This Covid19 exposes how many people, unfortunately also in higher places have forgotten to do the Aristotle before making decisions.

    I need a coffee now...
     
  5. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    It isn't the hard thing to try to convinced some Singaporeans to move to the US. They love commercialism, and the US is number #1 on all of your desires. But they also would love to own a car that isn't overtaxed, love to actually own a home. My friend's father just visited FL and he is thinking about trying to get out of the Island. According to him, his money would go father in the States than on the Island. Can't blame him, working your whole life for a Flat is sad.

    On the topic of the Founding Fathers, I do believe this:

    * They were influenced by the things that were around them at the time, which includes Christianity and other topics.
    * However, they did not based the founding of the US under true Christian principals. Because if that was the case, then I do believe the teachings of the bible fully conflict with our Constitution and amendments. How so? You can get in trouble for criticizing the teachings in the bible (blasphemy). Yet, we have our First Amendment that gives us the freedom to criticize without any negative consequences.

    More of my viewpoint, I live in Jacksonville, FL. This is still part of the bible belt. I met plenty of Christians who do believe that we should act more like the bible with regards to the moral character of the United States and take the laws of the bible legal. I pressed them on that and some people gave me these crazy talk things:

    * Make homosexuals a crime or put them to death per Leviticus 18/20
    * Slavery towards African Americans was justified per Exodus 21.
    * The various verses with regards to blasphemy should be a legal law. You should not be allows to criticizing the teachings of the bible.
    * Men are in full control of the household and women are to obey men at all time.

    It also doesn't help that the politicians here in FL want to use the bible to impose their will to other people. As one State Senator said: We must use the bible to spread the teachings of Jesus thru State Law.

    I read the Constitution and Laws based on an Originalist Judge (Antonin Scalia). I also read the Bible and other books (Quran and Book of Mormon) as an Orginalist. I do 100% believe that true Judaism and Christianity will allow slavery, killing homosexuals, etc. These pro-religion guys where I live love Originalist judges, however, they will not admit that killing homosexuals is a-ok. In other words, they don't follow the bible or whatever book they want 100% as they should. It doesn't matter what version of the bible you read, the Leviticus verses with regards to homosexuals is still going to be the same. I have friends who are religious Christians and gay, and I personally can't understand why they are still believers considering the various verses condemning them. However, people have the right to believe what they want in the US.

    Getting back on topic, well kind of.

    So many Christian preachers are linking Covid-19 to the sins of the US. Some even call Covid-19 a punishment against god due to us accepting homosexuals. I mean, come on with this crazy shit guys.

    Disclosure: While I was raised Jewish, I ID myself as an Agonist Atheist. Yes, my viewpoint is also pretty harsh and I'll accept my non-popular opinions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I live in California, so I guess I don’t run into the “God hates fags" types. My wife’s grandfather was a preacher and a missionary in the Philippines. He was The most gentle and soft spoken dude ever. He loved flying gliders and going fishing. The only thing that upset him was labor unions, because when he lived in Wyoming, the unions wouldn’t let him mine his land. His one son that followed in his footsteps, one on my wife’s uncles, is probably the dude I like the best from her entire side of the family. He doesn’t put on airs and he is the smartest.

    The waiter at my favorite hole in the wall Indo-Paki restaurant is a devout Muslim. He’s the best waiter ever. He knows my usuals and will tell me if there are any specials available for that day, namely haleem or paya. He kind of alluded that the owner steals his tips so I give him cash. I dunno. We really can’t understand each other because he lost much of his hearing two years ago from an illness. I’ve seen him do his daily prostrations in the back and was really inspired by this.

    One of the best people I know from SBAF is LDS. The Christians I know of on SBAF are authentic dudes, wanting to better themselves and follow the path of Jesus Christ. Last time I checked, I didn’t see Jesus saying God hates fags.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  7. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Correct, Jesus if we want to go by the various translations of the bible did not say anything negative about homosexuals. However, some of the verse if we want to go by that did stated that he came back to reaffirm all the teachings of the old testament. This also means that homosexuals are sinful.

    It's a very different vibe here in North Florida than something like in Cali. I worked with very hardcore Christians who are pretty much "my way or the highway types." One was a female who later told me that as a Christian her goal in life is to be a mother and raise the children via home schooling, while the man works. She later got knocked up and quit after giving birth. She was a nice person, but to me very brainwashed hardcore. She even said that all birth control is evil and if you are a Christian you must be a Republican. Where I am at if you are a Christian you must be a Republican is HUGE.

    FL is also the state where the "Choose Life" license plates started. I can tell you if an area is Republican or Democrat in Jacksonville by just looking at how many Choose Life license plates are in a parking lot. Of course the more Choose Life license plates are in an area, the higher the incomes/wealth is going to be.

    My Congressman and my State Rep are the hardcore Conservative types. My State Rep told me once when I had a meeting with him that if you aren't a Christian then most likely you a liberal big government Democrat who want to make everything like California or New York.

    One of the Jacksonville State Reps (a Democrat) was trying to push for Bible studies in the Public Schools. When asked if they will allow other religion to be taught in the schools, she said no only Judo-Christianity. Not too shocking she is also a preacher.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The South used to be Democratic for the longest time. Holdover from after the Civil War Reconstruction. Southern Conservative (socially) Democratics. Jimmy Farmer was one of them.

    Around the time of Clinton, these Democratic became Republicans. Conservative (socially) big spender Republicans. Pork.
     
  9. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    Am I the only one picturing MMA Style Judo-Christians fighting JuJitsu-Muslims?
     
  10. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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  11. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Yup, I keep telling people that all the time. However, the Spin Doctors did a great job by saying that it was the Democrats who were pro-slavery and racist towards black people. However, they will never say about the changes in the voting block.

    A bit of local history for everyone: Jacksonville like everyone else used to be a heavy Democrat city back in the day. In the 70s I think the advantage was 7-1 Democrat advantage on voting registration. With the civil rights actions and other things the White Democrats slowly started to become Republicans in the 70s. This started to accelerate in the 80s with Reagan in the White House. By the 90s it was complete, most of the white conservatives were now Republicans while the black population were Democrats. Our former Mayor Ed Austin was elected as a Democrat but flipped to being a Republican (he was the Mayor during Jax getting a football team). At that point Jax became a GOP city.

    I met plenty of middle age white conservatives who were once Democrats but later became Republicans since they fight for lower taxes and Christian values. Nowadays we still have a small conservative Democrat voting block who while they are registered Democrats, they vote GOP all the way.

    Bork Bork Bork Bork Bork
     
  12. BillOhio

    BillOhio Friend

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    Seems like those people would be pretty easy to manipulate.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  14. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    They upset me too: it's Labour Unions.

    Signed,
    Grumpy Old Brit.

    ;)

    (In Indian English, the plural of leave, meaning holidays, is leaves. That's weird)
     
  15. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    I'd love to agree, but 2 weeks since the restrictions seems too early for the dip in deaths to reflect those changes. Remember it takes between 5 days and 2 weeks for symptoms to appear, and more time before they get to a stage requiring intensive care.

    On a different subtopic: here's an interesting article on what geneticists are learning from the variations in the virus's DNA. Highlights include the interpretations that it mutates 8-10x slower than the flu virus, and that the 8 different strains so far identified are unlikely to be different in terms of contagion or morbidity:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rack-coronavirus-strains-mutation/5080571002/

    Some inferences relevant to California in there.

    On the topic of Singapore - another reason not to live there might be if you happen to be a gay man:

    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/high-court-rejects-all-three-challenges-against-section-377a
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    To some extent, I'm counting on "awareness" before the public lockdowns. With awareness, I would expect more people to seek medical attention as opposed to ignoring it (as I would since it's always my wife that takes me to the hospital for urgent care while I insist that I am fine). It's my understanding from early China data that folks older than 70 croak on median 11.5 days after onset of symptoms.

    Despite the people going to beaches and doing stupid stuff, I'd say that the Californians I know have been very responsible. Grocery stores are limiting number of concurrent customers in the store, some have old-people hour from 8-9am, and others have installed plexiglass shields to protect the cashiers and customers. People on walks around the neighborhood are keeping their distance. Like 15-20 feet. Can't say this for Michiganders that I know though. They seem like how us Californians were 2-3 weeks when we were still in denial.

    D: Oh, f**k you virus, I am still going to see my grandkids!
    M: Oh, we're up north - no way we are going to get this! (as the well-to-do folks in Oakland County drive up north to their vacation homes by the lake)
    B: Oh, that's just Detroit and Wayne county. We're totally safe here.

    We'll see how the data plays out in California. Crossing my fingers. It could just be a temporary dip before it explodes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  17. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    I think the two week incubation period is going to be a big factor in drop or rise of numbers.
    If 2+ weeks after the lockdown & numbers keep going down, then that means the spread, for the most part, was halted & was not spread throughout the city like with New York or the hard hit cities in Italy.
     
  18. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    ~2 week lag for infection/admission numbers, ~4 weeks lag for deaths.

    The latter is important because it drives the amount of ICU capacity you need.
     
  19. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    There were three major groups that helped write the constitution. While the smallest group practiced Deism (I.e., the religion of human rationality,) the largest group were people that followed Christian teachings and morals, but didn't actually believe in the supernatural or miracle portions of the bible. They were heavily influenced by the group that practiced Deism. Both groups believed that some sort of entity created man and the natural world, gave man the ability to reason, and left us to our own devices.

    The rest were normal Christians.

    That's why the constitution itself only has one (maybe two) references to religion. This reference to religion is used specifically to say that everyone in the US has a freedom to practice their own religion.

    The Declaration of Independence is a different matter entirely, but it isn't part of the Constitution.

    The Pledge of Allegiance and the US Dollar didn't have any references to God until 1957. And it was put there as propaganda to say "Hey, our country is united under God, what does your's got?" It was meant to spurn public support and nationalism to one-up Russia.

    Either way, our country was made on certain principles and teachings in the bible as a framework. It wasn't specifically made by Christians for Christians. It was made to say that, no matter what Creator you may or may not believe in, the government promises to protect your rights and not infringe on them. The pyramid on the dollar bill is a similar situation. That was originally based off Benjamin Franklin's design for the Great Seal of the US back in the late 1700s. It was reference Moses and how the US has a duty to fight against tyranny. The All-Seeing Eye is meant to represent a Deity (not specifically God, but any Deity.)

    Basically, I'm saying that US wasn't written for Christians or any group in particular. It was written for everybody. It was even going to ban slaves until certain parties argued that would have too large of an effect on the economy, so it was left alone until the Civil War.
     
  20. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    People tended to eat better? What people? Slaves? People who worked the fields? Oh, and they were cleaner. They were taking a lot showers every day I presume? Are you kidding?
     
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