CO SBAF Pyrate Micro Meet (Feb. 15th, 2020)

Discussion in 'The Meeting Place' started by MisterRogers, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    I’ve seen elsewhere @Elnrik mention he likes the Verite + ZDS pairing as well. Maybe he can chime in? I’ve been curious about this myself.
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    MD Ether CX is a heavily tweaked version of the original Ether closed (not even the Ether Flow).

    I can't recall if I used the Auteur with the ZDS specifically, but it was my first time hearing a ZDS! (Finally, right?)

    ZDS sounded great. It was more forward than both the Super 7 and Aficionado. More width, less depth. But still sounded "big."

    Whereas the Super 7 and Aficionado both had a sort of haze to them, in terms of background and timbre, the ZDS was smooth and very clear. The ZDS was one of the more lush, thick sounding amps at the meet, and I mean that in a very good way. Not overdone. Bold sound done right.

    @jexby's Auteur in general I thought sounded quite good. From the Aficionado, it was a tiny bit hot in the upper-mids and had a little bit of bite and etch to it. And I do mean tiny, because it was overall a very balanced sounding headphone. More neutral (i.e. less bass) than the early pair I heard long ago.

    These nitpicks could be mostly alleviated by finding the right listening position/fitment on the head, but I did not find the best sound came from the most comfortable listening position. Still, I don't think I'd have any issues listening to them as my main headphone.

    So, while I can't recall if I heard them from the ZDS specifically, I think it stands to reason the lush, smooth, bold nature of the ZDS would suit them well.
     
  3. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    yah, what @Hands said.

    I was VERY impressed in the 15min of time with the EC ZDS and ZMF Blackwood Auteur, could easily see them as an endgame pair.
    don't know how Hands hears background haze in the Af, especially when fed by the smooth Morpheus- maybe that's just canine level hearing, but would agree the Aficionado is more neutral overall yet excels at depth which I prefer in general to excessive width.

    ZDS was more liquid and wet in general, and yes- big and bold is a great way to state it.
    I definitely preferred the ZDS low end being more solid and hefty, and bass had more impact without being too tube bloomy.

    will definitely want an in home loner of @MisterRogers ZDS one day. until then, might plop in some Ken-Rad 2A3s into the Af and see if bass heft is increased without sacrificing too much air or stage.
     
  4. Boops

    Boops Friend

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    @Hands out of curiosity, we’re you listening to the AF with feedback or no feedback?
     
  5. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    I know @jexby has the feedback mod installed. I suspect @Hands must have had it in NFB mode to mention any haze, because that slight haze is gone with tertiary engaged.
     
  6. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Impressions are based on both feedback modes across a few different headphones.

    Don't forget these comments are more relative than they are absolute.
     
  7. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    @Hands and @Elnrik - when you gents have a few minutes, please share any impressions you care to re: EtherREGEN. I still intend to do a writeup when Uptone has a chance to finish their white paper.
     
  8. drgumbybrain

    drgumbybrain Science Nut

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    Looks like a lot of fun seeing those photos. Etherregen it’s nice gadget , hope it’s not another snake oil. Looking forward for your impressions gentlemen. Cheers
     
  9. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    I definitely wouldn't say it's snake oil, thought I'm more open to the benefits / changes that a good linear PS or a isolation / regeneration device like EtherREGEN can bring. I find it has lowered the noise floor for me, and peeled off a bit more digititis resulting in better imaging, separation, etc.

    It's staying in my system, and I'll dig in more when the white paper is done. I'm hoping others can share too, as they're less, you know, subjective :)
     
  10. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I heard it. It sucked. The end.

    Just kidding.

    Doing an A/B comparison with it in the audio chain and then without (and back in and out again several times) there were easily detectable differences. The device seemed to dig deeper into the music to bring more information out to be heard. Cymbals could be heard to ring longer. Percussion had a more real sound. Guitar sustain and reverb had a touch more weight. The track as a whole felt more flushed out and whole.

    It was similar to listening to a good speaker setup in a good room, versus listening to the same speakers from outside that room with the door closed. Not that the actual change was that extreme, of course, but hopefully the analogy works.

    The amount of change it made was at a DAC level difference. Like the improvements you get going from OG Bifrost MB to Yggdrasil A2. The change wasn't as big as changing transducers would make, like going from M50X to HD650. I hope that all makes sense.

    I was rather skeptical going into the demo, and was prepared to try to detect much smaller changes in the sound than what I heard.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Finally getting around to adding thoughts on the other gear there...


    - EtherREGEN: Did some back and forth with this feeding the Ambre. Differences were subtle, possibly enough that it was just placebo. Not sure I'd pass a blind test. Then again, the guys were chatting in the background, so maybe it would have been easier to tell at home.

    That said, I found the sound with the EtherRegen to sound less grey, more forward, a little bassier, a litter sharper. Overall, more focused and vivid sounding.

    I imagine YMMV depending on what you use it with. Perhaps it benefits the Ambre but would have less of an effect on the Pi2AES or DigiOne Sig.


    - Ambre: Seemed fine? I'm not really sure why you'd get one when you could get a Pi2AES + I2S attachment if you need that out over ethernet. At one point during the Pavane vs Morpheus test, the former was on Pi2AES, and the latter on Ambre.

    I became worried the differences I heard were down to source. Added EtherRegen to the Ambre...Subtle difference from Morpheus. Then I swapped it all out for the DigiOne Sig, since then I at least knew I'd be feeding both DACs the same SPDIF signal (more or less). Subtle differences there at best.

    So, if you have an Ambre, I don't necessarily think it's worth tossing. But if you are considering one, you'll probably get similar performance from the Pi2AES or DigiOne Sig. Just go with whatever provides you the digital outputs you need.


    - Empyrean:
    These had....velour pads? I found their midrange to be too recessed and treble too splashy or spitty. Bass was a bit too full and loose too. Didn't really care for them.


    - ECP 3F: There were two of these floating around, each in a different rig. I don't know who they belong to or what transformers each had.

    I had a surprisingly hard time getting a feel for them. They seemed to influence each headphone differently. I remember trying the JAR HD600 on one unit, only to try it later on the other unit with different results. But then trying the Auteur on the same amps, the 3F would affect its sound in ways I hadn't expected based on how it affected the HD600.

    Using headphones like the HD600 and Auteur on a variety of amps there was a pretty normal affair. X amp sounds this way, but Y amp sounds this way. The 3F always seemed like it was just doing something...different...And I don't mean that in a solid state vs tube sort of way.

    So, the 3F got a big fat "heck if I know" from me any time I tried it. I eventually stopped trying it entirely because it added a huge variable to any listening tests. (Yeah, I know...some help I am, answering a, "How did it sound?" question with, "Not sure. Different?")


    - Elekit TU-8200DX: I don't think I mentioned it yet in this thread, right?

    With whatever tubes and mode it was in at the time, it reminded me most of the ZDS out of all the amps at the meet. Not as forward, not as "big," not as smooth, and a bit bassier than the ZDS. But it had that same sort of bold sound and wasn't ashamed to add some tubey color into the mix without getting weird about it.

    Worked really well with the JAR HD600. Again, I wasn't listening for the more nuanced aspects of the amp, but it was pretty damn good sounding.

    If you're DIY-handy, it's worth considering. I think the kit is around or under $900. Great performance and potential in that price bracket. Not many other options.


    - Auteur w/ perforated suede pads: Did I get the pad types right? I thought these were a moderatly too hot in the upper-mids and somewhat bright in general. Hot enough that I personally wouldn't be able to use them much. The pair with the perforated leather pads (see earlier comments about Aficionado) sounded more balanced to me.

    But, hey, goes to show the ZMF cans have a lot of tuning potential with pads alone! Great to dial them in to your own tastes.


    - Asgard 3: Pretty decent sounding. It was a bit peculiar...Overall, I'd say it was a slightly warm sounding amp, yet it had a subtle sheen to the sound. And the low end lacked some definition, yet didn't sound bassy or thick like you might expect.

    Staging was fairly good. It didn't exhibit the forward, flat sort of stage that many associated with Schiit amps. It sounded somewhat like a tube amp in this regard.

    Again, pretty decent sounding amp overall. I liked it...But I think I might like the Magni 3+ more.


    I think that's it. Did I miss anything? Any questions?
     
  12. Effusion

    Effusion Friend

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    In the case anyone is curious, the Elekit TU-8200DX was in Triode mode running GE 6550As, which aren't easy to find, at least on the cheap, as well as Mullard ECC82s. The GE 6550As are vary different than all other 6550s, in my experience, with less slam/power than say the Tung-Sols, but very rich mids and great bass. Combined with the Mullards and in Triode mode, it was tilted more towards warm and open mids the most. The GE 6550As as well as the GE 6L6GCs are just about the only GE tubes I can really tolerate in my experience, as most seem to be thin/hollow and a bit sterile. Then again, with really good KT-88s and other power tube types you can get a ton of power/slam out of this amp, but with less mid-magic and bloom in general.

    This version of the amp is available for $725 from Tube Depot and $799 direct from Victor, with upgraded tubes. I also have upgraded the caps and a few other components. They sell it direct from Japan as well, but only really makes sense if you are located in Asia, etc.

    https://www.tubedepot.com/products/elekit-tu-8200dx-stereo-tube-amplifier-kit

    https://www.vkmusic.ca/TU-8200.htm

    I would however suggest looking into the "R" version of the amp, as it has additional protections and is the "newer" version.

    In my experience, with the different output modes and the vast number of types of tubes you can run in it, you can really tailor it to any headphone and it scales very well, sounding great, when the synergy is right, with very expensive cans as well as all the cheapos. Since I have literally hundreds of tubes for this amp, I'll probably be keeping it, or a newer version of it, for a very long time. Actually haven't been swayed to look at another amp in many years, which has been great!
     
  13. lehmanhill

    lehmanhill Almost "Made"

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    Sounds like a good time, although my ears are hurting at the thought of all those headphones. I admit it, I'm speaker wimp.

    I hope Hands will write up some more details on his BBC-69. It sounds like a good DIY. Did you use only 1 level of the AD1862? It looks like they are trying to sell paralleled versions.

    Anyway, it looks like fun and a good match to an upcoming project.
     
  14. sahmen

    sahmen New

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    Interesting review : Mister Rogers, your comments about the Morpheus intrigue me. I do have an Onyx that I am considering selling in order to get a Morpheus, but I wonder whether the payoff warrants it (I may have to come up with probably $1500 more to get the Morpheus, after selling the Onyx, although the latter is barely 2 years old, and in excellent shape). If you're familiar with the SQ of the Onyx, your comments about the delta between Onyx and Morpheus would be very useful.

    I have also been wondering how the Morpheus might compare with the Pavane L3 or, better yet, the Adagio. If anyone has insights about this, kindly share.
     
  15. sahmen

    sahmen New

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    @Hands : This is very detailed and much, much, appreciated. Thanks. Yet, I still have a question which would probably make me sound like and ingrate, but I neither want to sound like that nor, worse, sound rude. I am just in a possible moment of transition between DACS, and I am eagerly looking for some clarity, which is why I am asking.

    Question: I would just like to know whether you have heard any of the 3 DACs you mention here (FrankenDAC, Pavane L1, Morpheus) in fully balanced mode since the meet, and whether that has altered your opinion, in some way.

    I ask because, although I am no expert at all at these things, I have heard and compared the performances of my Yggdrasil
    A2, my Metrum Onyx, and my AidioGD Ref 5.32 (with Amanero USB) against themselves in SE and balanced mode, and in each case the performance in balanced mode is so noticeably different (not to mention, superior to) from the SE performance, that I would not be comfortable judging any one of them exclusively on the basis of their SE performance alone. From some of the comments you have made in your own review, I am sure you would at least understand such reservations, where they are legitimately due..

    The second reason is that, I am considering selling or trading up my Onyx in exchange for a Morpheus, and the delta I am really interested in is the one between the Morpheus playing in fully balanced mode, and the Onyx also playing in fully balanced mode.

    If I happen to be sounding too much like someone with a fetish for DACs operating in balanced mode, it is simply because all of the headphone amps I have around the house discriminate in their performance in favor of DACs operating in fully balanced mode. When pairing each of them with a DAC that can do both SE and balanced, I never get optimal performance from the HP amps when such DACs are hooked up in SE. mode.

    If you have been able to hear or compare any of the DACs you mention in their fully balanced performances, and can share your impressions, that would be highly appreciated. Thanks.
     
  16. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Yes, just one DAC IC per channel for now at least. I'm not even sure if those stacking boards are available quite yet. Maybe you have to request them on the side.


    Unfortunately, no. We had a limited selection of amps at the meet with balanced inputs, and we definitely didn't have time to compare how certain DACs performed using SE vs balanced out, nor any way to appropriately and accurately compare DACs using different inputs and outputs.

    I personally don't have any balanced amps at home either, so I can't make such comparisons. So, in my case, comparing SE I/O exclusively is representative of what I'll actually be listening to. It matters in that regard. And I'd much rather have an SE-only amp that I love than a balanced amp that's just OK. Often DAC outputs aren't enough to make up for these differences.

    That's about all I have in response. The Sonnet Morpheus is likely a solid upgrade over the Onyx, especially if only considered from a balanced I/O standpoint.
     
  17. lehmanhill

    lehmanhill Almost "Made"

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    sahmen,

    Does your Onyx have the USB or i2s module? I can't comment on Morpheus, but I have compared Pavane L3 to Onyx. If you are comparing the DACs with the same input, say coax, then the Pavane is a clear step up. But the Pi2AES to i2s Onyx is also a very nice improvement, making the Onyx i2s pretty close to the Pavane coax. I can't comment on Pavane with i2s because I bought my Pavane used with USB, but based on MisterRogers comments, Pavane with i2s is pretty sweet.

    Of course, Metrum is out of business, so if you don't have an i2s module, you would have to find one at a dealer.
     
  18. sahmen

    sahmen New

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    I am using the Onyx with the i2s module, as it is hooked up with the Metrum Ambre, and it does sound nice, but so far, I can only compare it with my non-Metrum DACs. Thanks for asking.
     
  19. DigitalMaven

    DigitalMaven Acquaintance

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    Found this review on Youtube for the sonnet Morpheus.

     

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