Campfire Audio Andromeda Review: Holy Cow, This is a Dream, Awesomesauce!

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by purr1n, May 13, 2016.

  1. theveterans

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    To be honest, I haven't heard the Andromeda sounding great out of any desktop setups, but my listening to them is only limited to Schiit amps, Chord Mojo, Hugo2 and Hugo2 TT. Either Andromeda gets too warm with mushy microdynamics (not well defined micro-transitions in the delicate flow of music) or thin and bright sounding with not enough heft and not enough microdynamics again. Best I've heard the Andromeda is from the SP2000 DAP I'm using where it actually sounds full of both macro and fast and fluid microdynamics and because of that, I can easily lose myself listening to music in a holistic manner instead of focusing on just some of the parts
     
  2. Thundervikings

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    One of the things I've been wondering about lately (especially since I've been working from home) is if there is a "good" desktop setup for the Andromeda? The dragonfly red has been a good cheap solution that travels well, but it leaves a lot to be desired when not on the road. I had a chance to demo andromedas, single ended, from a Sony WM1A about a year ago, and my experience was similar to what's already been said about the pairing. It sounded good in all the ways that make you not notice the equipment is even there (lots of microdynamics and detail, defined soundstage with some depth). It was definitely something I could be happy enough to just keep on using as a high end set-up, and I'm not surprised about your experience with the SP2000.

    I've seen past discussions talk about using a buffer (Lehman, Line Drive), and it would be interesting to see an amp with variable output impedance (if this is even possible? I'm terrible as an armchair electric engineer). Also, I've read about recent positive experience with the Asgard 3. I've had a good experience running my Andromedas out of of my SA31 amp. Other than a little bit of background noise on low gain, it has a much wider soundstage than what I remember on the WM1A (in IEM terms). Macrodynamics are really good, but there does seem to be a little roll off at the lowest frequencies. Would it make sense that a low impedance BA IEM would benefit from an amp that can supply higher current/power than average?
     
  3. theveterans

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    IMO, Andromeda being bass light (in terms of low-level heft and not extension) from a lower impedance source can be due to lack of current at low voltages. To me, as I’m not an electronics engineer nor knowledgeable in electronics, I do perceive better BA bass texture and impact with high amount of current at very low voltages (since Andromeda’s impedance is really low in the bass region). DAPs with good amplification performs better in this regard (low voltage, high current delivery) than high powered desktop amps. And BTW, the changes or inflections of current delivery at this constrained voltage ceiling maybe attributed to better micro dynamics that I perceive when using a good DAP compared to desktop amps. That’s just my theory but I’m no electronic engineer as caveat.
     
  4. 11GTCS

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    So I’ve tried to read as much of the previous 106 pages of this thread as I can, and I’ve hunted all over the internet for some experience on this question. Does anyone who owns andros have any experience with using them with an old school, 5th gen or older iPod? It seems like the output impedance is 5ohms, which would suggest from what I’ve read on here that bass will be reduced. Can anyone say how they sound? I’m more attached to my iPods than I am to any super headphones, but I’d like to have IEM’s that are like some headphones in that they work fine on mobile sources unamped, but grow with proper amping at a desktop setup. I apologize if it’s too soon for me to be asking questions, I’d just really love to get some andros, they sound like exactly what I’d like, but I’m not getting rid of my iPods to get a DAP just to play the exact same music with a form factor that isn’t as fun for me. I appreciate the help!
     
  5. roscoeiii

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    At a 5 ohm output impedance an iPod will tilt towards the treble. But not sure to what degree. Hopefully someone with an iPod or a source in that impedance range can weigh in.

    Andros are great and beloved for a reason but source sensitivity is a big caveat. Both in terms of output impedance and noise floor. But both can be addressed with the IEMatch. I personally haven't found that the IEMatch degrades the sound to an appreciable degree but others disagree. But it makes Andros much more versatile in terms of sources.
     
  6. Biodegraded

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    @11GTCS , see post #2079 a couple of pages back in this thread. Tan curve. Boost in upper mids & treble (or, relatively, reduction in bass & lower mids).
     
  7. 11GTCS

    11GTCS New

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    Thanks, I actually remember seeing that graph, but I didn’t check to see if 5ohm was on there. I already ordered them, so I’ll play with various sources and see how it sounds in my ears. As far as IEMatch, @roscoeiii , I’ve been eyeing the xDSD anyway as a possible portable solution, I’m assuming the auto IEMatch in that is probably fairly similar to what happens in the dongle version, so I’ll have to consider that as well.
     
  8. dubiousmike

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    I'm five years late to party, but definitely better late than never in this case, and thanks again to @paranoidroid for the great deal on his immaculate pair of v2's. Preaching to the choir here, but hot damn are these some tasty IEM's! For years, I dithered and harbored minor concerns that the 7k peak on the pre-2020's might push my treble tolerance, but the Andromeda's FR seems to hit a lovely sweet spot for me between phones with a 6k peak (eg hd800) or 9-10k peak (eg dt880's). Via my Yggdrasil -> self-built, unity gain Wire SE SE, they have a clarity and resolution that easily betters every set of phones I have, aside from og/sd resonator modded hd800's, while also presenting the sense of warmth and moderate fullness I always wished I could coax from my hd800's. The result is an earphone that sounds as flaming great (to me) with, say, pop-punk/alt-rock (eg Point North), as they do with audiophile cult hit bluegrass (eg HDS 701 / Sauerkraut 'N Solar Energy), as they do with classical/choral/partitas etc. (currently reveling in William Christie/Les Arts Florrisante's album of Purcell's Divine Hymns). So good!

    I could listen to them happily with the stock silicones in a pinch (and did for several hours yesterday), but Purrin's rec of the filtered comply's, which I thankfully had on hand in the right size, is really where it's at even if they do require replacing every month or two.

    For those asking about desktop amps above, I can attest that a properly star grounded diyaudio Wire has absolutely 0 hiss/noise and sounds brilliant to me with the Andromedas with a quality source. (For reference, the Wire sounds nothing like the shitastic O2, even after I modded mine with AGDR's booster board and much better opamps.) OPC, who designed the Wire, is the real deal. Wires don't pop up that often due to discontinued semis but tend to be cheap when they do. Just wish I had had the foresight to pickup the boards and parts for the balanced version when I built mine because it would be fun to compare with an equivalent with twice the output impedance.

    For a cheap portable source (for those with Android phones that support LDAC), I can also confirm the Fiio BTR5 sounds better with the Andromedas than it has any right to given its very modest price tag. I tend to cringe a little every time Fiio is mentioned and picked this up on a late night whim assuming it would be an overhyped FOTM gadget in a pretty black glass enclosure. Maybe my now 40yo ears are less picky than they once were, but it turns out, I use the BTR5 all the time for casual listening - often as a beater setup with Koss kph30i's, but after experimenting last night, I can tell you it is about to be repurposed for use with my Andros when lounging and browsing Spotify on my Pixel. Good times ahead!
     
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  9. ohshitgorillas

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    I received my Andromeda 2020 about a week ago as my primary traveling headphones, driving them with xDuoo X10T II to Chord Mojo. I'm still working on getting enough time on them for a thorough review, including tip rolling... on the other hand, there's already 106 pages here and I have nothing close to their price range to compare them to. Still, there are a few things that stand out or are noteworthy after a week:
    • The bass is really, really nice. The texture and dynamics are very enjoyable. The sub-bass boost is somewhat distracting but it does make for good impact.
    • Everyone has described these as being dark, warm headphones but I actually hear a small scoop in the mids and forwardish treble. It's a subtle effect, and one that I think might be corrected by the right tips and cable (I am rarely a fan of silver/SPC for headphone cables).
    • I'm really pleased with how well these can maintain detail, separation, and in particular percussion clarity during busy, chaotic tracks. I have some music that will turn lesser headphones into mush, but these make it through without embarrassing themselves. They're no HD800, but the whole package is also smaller than the HD800's driver.
    • I wasn't a fan of the way percussion sounded with foam tips, mushy and congested, silicone is much better and clearer. Interestingly with my other IEMs, Dekoni foam tips are the clearest I've heard yet other foam tips are f'ing horrid. The Dekoni and Campfire tips appear to be identical besides the color of the inner sleeve, but I haven't compared them side by side sound-wise. I was really hoping foam would do the trick because the isolation is so much better than with silicone, and these are primarily for long flights and hotel stays.
    • These are so sensitive I'm seeing new colors on my Mojo's balls. I can still use them with Jotunheim 2, although there is hiss audible even at zero volume
     
  10. Tchoupitoulas

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    Jason Stoddard says here that "there won't be any hiss from the balanced output."

    There's a dedicated Andromeda 2020 thread here in case you've not seen it.
     
  11. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    Just to be clear, this was the SE out. I haven't made myself a balanced adapter yet.
     
  12. dubiousmike

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    Hope you all are having a great happy holiday weekend and enjoying some quality listening as time permits! I decided to mix things up a little tonight and plugged my Andros into the desktop system, in place of the usual mobile setup, to enjoy them via the Yggdrasil. Unfortunately, at the outset, I was dismayed to discover that the star ground in my 2016 diyaudio wire se-se evidently needs to be reworked/soldered, and the amp is presently unacceptably noisy with Andros. Okay, take 2 - I plug them into my gsx-mini only to discover that the noise level from the headamp is literally 10x worse than my wire and a total nonstarter. (This isn't audible through ordinary cans, but it is so bad with the Andros, I'm left wondering if I need to reach out to headamp about repairs o_O. As an aside, if anyone else has a gsx mini on hand + Andros, would you please let me know if you experience the same?)

    The happy ending - with little to lose, I power on my Mainline, assuming a 2013 self-built tube amp will almost assuredly be the third epic fail of the evening with the <1 ohm Andros. (Candidly, I'd never even bothered to try the combo before based on this assumption.) To my astonishment and delight, it turns out my trusty ole Mainline is nearly noise free with these ultra-sensitive IEM's (with only the faintest low frequency hum deep in the background when no music is playing)! Pretty incredible for a 10 year old kit amp assembled by a diy novice. I have the dual attenuators turned all the way down (set to 0!), and the Andros are still at full volume unless I turn the Yggdrasil down using Windows volume, but the combo actually sounds really nice via the Mainline's low impedance (~5 ohm) tap. Who knew?

    At some point, I would still like to pick up a new/better SS amp for iem's, maybe with a negative gain setting, for comparison purposes. Is anyone using an ultra-quiet desktop amp they are really happy with with Andros these days? From the specs, Midgard seems like it could be a pretty interesting option, although it is just unity at low gain, and I assume I might need in line attenuators so that channel imbalances in the pot at the very lowest levels aren't an issue. Would welcome any thoughts / suggestions!
     
  13. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Never tried one myself but the Massdrop THX789 appears to be a stellar amp for multi-BA IEMs, as @rhythmdevils and others have attested. I think @Senorx12562 has tried that amp with a bunch of IEMs as well, but cannot remember impressions off the top of my head other than "pretty damn good".

    The Piety works well on low gain with my Andromeda 2020s, though for an assortment of reasons I am far too paranoid to plug them into it for more than a couple songs. The low OI of the Piety does exacerbate the excessive low end of the Andros, though I really don't mind itt all that much for casual listening. I somehow have a Magni Unity en route here (it's taking a detour by a friend's place for now), will report back on how that one fares with the 2020s.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 24, 2023
  14. dubiousmike

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    Thanks, @Lyander! Sounds like a couple of good options there. Given that I also enjoy ample bass, what's the concern about the Piety? I see a couple up for sale but don't want to bite if there is a stability issue? Otherwise, will look forward to your comments re the pairing with the Magni Unity down the road.
     
  15. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Oh my only concern is that I seem to have very bad luck with Campfire IEMs so I'm not willing to plug it into anything too powerful lest I accidentally fry them. I trust that the Piety is well-built, but I don't trust myself not to kill something since the gain switch is on the back and I can occasionally be very "out of sight, it doesn't exist" :p

    I'll revisit the 2020 out of the Piety eventually, but I've been running it using a Pentaconn cable out of a BTR7 (higher OI, less bassy sound), and I can't remember where I placed the 3.5mm cable I got with it to use an adapter with.

    The Magni Unity with that negative gain setting does make it a very versatile thing, but going of my impressions of how the 3+ sounds (never got to the the Magni+), I feel it might not suit my preferences too much with something like the Andros. Definitely a YMMV situation though, and I'm out of practise listening critically.
     
  16. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    @dubiousmike

    I forgot that I still had a friend's Andromeda S on loan, and that one has a 3.5mm cable attached. I'm mistrustful enough of MMCX connectors that I'd hesitate to keep re-mating them. Again, I've had bad luck with Campfire's IEMs and I do not wanna push my luck, sigh. Either way the Andro S seems to be more like the original Andromeda so this is fun.

    I did kinda just bang this out while listening to music cuz there's a great chance I'll forget to write this in a few weeks when I do get the new boxes in, so please keep that in mind.

    Pic or it didn't happen:
    [​IMG]

    I'm using the Piety on low gain with an 18dB cut in foobar2000 because the Andromeda Ses are just that sensitive, plus I'm listening to both sanely-made and pancake-compressed stuff here. The Andro S are using very worn out Campfire Marshmallow tips. Source is a Modi 3+ running out of my desktop PC. I've had the Modi for a while now but have come to dislike over the years mainly because... AKM sound. Resolves like crazy, big headstage, but while I do hear that Schiit's done a good job de-velveting the sound (I have VERY little experience with DACs relative to many on SBAF, please take that with a grain of salt-- I'm going off others' impressions here), there's just a lot of things about the Modi 3+'s sound that've cumulatively come to bug me over the years.

    Just a few quick pairing notes: I think that the Piety's midrange "wetness" for lack of a better term works quite a bit of magic with the Andromedas. This is in contrast to how dry and matter-of-factly the Magni 3+ presents things; the Magni 3+ is a crazy resolving amplifier for its price which makes me excited to hear the Magni Unity, but something about it was just less fun to listen to than either the MCTH or the Magni Piety. There was a treble elevation to the Magni 3+'s sound as well, but it was more lower treble than mid, and it wasn't as pronounced as the splashy tizz on the Piety-- just sounded "harder".

    I normally use the Piety on high gain with HD600s so I do often run into a lot of treble splashiness, which others have reported hearing on the Piety. That's not nearly as much of a bother on low gain, but with how the Andromeda S is voiced, the treble still grates on me sometimes e.g. on Jeff Buckley's Eternal Life. The low OI of the Piety does make for a very dark sound, and I get great extension into very low bass (I try not to call anything above 20Hz "sub"-bass since that's a misnomer). Impact and slam are a bit lacking though, but that could just be the BA drivers. Usual test tracks used for that one: Daft Punk Doin' It Right and testing for muddiness with Heilung's Krigsgaldr (live version). On that note, not a lot of murkiness on the latter track, and with how pervasive bass is on it that's pretty impressive.

    Staging on the Piety has always been much wider than it is deep. It's a very upfront sound that can be fun with some music but fatiguing with others. This does rob the Andro S of some of that headstage magic, but it does draw you in during more vocally nuanced bits such as when listening to the like of Dave's True Story or Lady Gaga + Tony Bennett's Cheek to Cheek album. Still, it's far from being claustrophobic, as stuff that's deliberately made to sound spacious (see: Primus's Tommy the Cat's introduction) still sounds impressively out-of-head for an IEM.

    Nine Inch Nails's Ghosts I-IV album is NOT lacking for aggression at all (specifically, when listening to 16 Ghosts II). I actually feel like I could use even more of a mids cut here sometimes, but that's only on more deliberately harsh tracks like that. Overall, vocals and instruments sound faintly hollow to me with this pairing with there not being a lot of lateral localisation. Then again, I don't think the Andros were ever very good at pinpoint precision (... unlike the Solaris) so much as they were at throwing a surprisingly large headstage out.

    Okay yeah treble is very crisp on Radiohead's Weird Fishes/Arpeggi. Not to the point that it's painful to me, but I feel like if I were using any brighter eartips than the Campfire Marshmallows I'd be pretty miserable. Thom Yorke's very much upfront here with vocal nuances well-presented, how hard he's driving his mic. The mids on the Piety really do work magic with the Andros, trading off a bit of the hyper-responsiveness/dryness of BAs while making for a more intimate and engaging listen. The bass isn't as overwhelming as I thought it'd be, though I do feel like the Andro S is generally less bassy than the 2020 edition of the Andromeda and the OG Solaris, which are the two CA models I'm most familiar with. Conversely, the treble is more of a bother than I expected it'd be on the Piety, though with fairly aggressive digital attenuation and using treble-polite eartips it's perfectly serviceable.

    I have no idea if I'd ever feel comfortable using the Andromedas out of a desktop amp, but that's just me. I can definitely see the appeal because the Piety does play very well with the Andro Ses from a technical perspective, though the voicing isn't my cuppa tea.

    Gonna report back with impressions of the Unity when I get that, though the guy currently borrowing it is the guy who owns the Andromeda S so I may be handing them over during the next time we meet up, haha.
     
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  17. jexby

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    I've long had the same concern (or lack of need) to use IEMs primarily with a desktop amp, but the Pietus Maximus with it's negative gain switch, along with a decent internal DAC card AND an excellent volume pot - changed all that!
    various IEMs sound awesome on Pietus Maximus, supreme background and sonics without fear of volume frying them.
     
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  18. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I've got a FiiO BTR7 (mainly for the higher OI than the iFi GO blu-- if the DD on one of my Solaris channels hadn't died for a third time I'd have gotten the iFi instead) acting as both a desktop dongle and an LDAC receiver for when I'm out and about, which is more often nowadays. It works well on PC, no hiccoughs whatsoever, and the battery life is a decent 4-ish hours running the Andromeda 2020s out of the Pentaconn jack, volume at 14~17 out of 60 on low gain and de-garbling LDAC from my phone. The non-user replaceable battery is always going to be a horrible thing for product longevity, but it works well enough as a dongle that when I do want to use IEMs at my desk (for isolation cuz I live in a noisy spot), it's serviceable.

    That said, I DEFINITELY see the appeal of having a great desktop solution for IEMs if I weren't mainly on the HD600s at my desk. The sound of the FiiO nugget is... fine, but yeah I almost regret not going with the iFi and just EQing the bass on the Andro 2020s down.
     
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  19. dubiousmike

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    @Lyander - thank you for all the detailed impressions regarding the Piety and Andromeda S combo! From your comments and those in the Piety thread, it sounds like the Piety may ultimately have a little more treble bite than what I'm aiming for with these particular iem's - although perhaps that would be mitigated to a degree if I were using my Yggdrasil (first batch/A1 with Unison) as a source. Still flirting with the option of a Piety, and now @jexby has me following the Pietus thread as well. That ultra low gain setting sure would be an awesome option to have on what sounds like a very nice and versatile amp!

    For casual/on the go listening, I'm in an older model of the same boat with you and often use my Andromeda's with a btr5 (via ldac off a Pixel), with comply tips and using the < 1 ohm se output. With the more treble happy OG Andromeda's, the bass is just about right for me - and the btr5 is surprisingly decent for such a cheap pocket dac/amp (with no glaring sins of commission). I probably could have happily avoided falling down the audio rabbit hole altogether if it and Koss kph30i's had existed back in 2006 - such a great low budg combo. But ultimately, with iem's as incredible and revealing as the Andromedas, I really want to find a way to get the most from them with my Yggdrasil as a source. Fun bouncing this around with you and will keep you posted on which way I ultimately jump. Cheers!
     
  20. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    @YMO I remember you got the Pietus Overcompensatorius. Would be curious to hear how it might fare with something like the OG Andro, or did you never own one/sold it off and my brain is just fried? I definitely remember you having one of the Gaudio multi-BA makes at least, would be curious to hear how that one fares with the Maximus.

    Koss is a remarkable value brand (other than their ESP950 which I got to try in-store and was very meh about, but I see why people can like it), and they do remain one of my default recommendations to people who just want something good and inexpensive. Their aesthetic is a bit of a hard sell, though, especially to gamer kids. Bit of a shame about that.

    I actually find the Andro 2020s a bit too splashy in the treble out of the BTR7's Pentaconn jack (this is using fast filter-- hybrid filter's ringing was annoying after a while, but I did appreciate the more intimate staging and lower overall treble levels on the hybrid), but yeah it's tolerable unless I'm listening at higher levels for longer periods of time. Just can't really justify spending too much on what's mainly a bedside and walking around rig, and that was already somewhat of an overextension haha. I could probably find it more tolerable with foam tips, but I hate how often I end up having to replace them which is why I generally stick with wider-bore silicone ones and stick with deep insertion.
     

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