News: Drop ZEN CAN Signature 6XX?

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. Joe Bloggs

    Joe Bloggs Acquaintance

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    Regarding the distortion at bass frequencies, yes, graphs show the distortion does go up, but remember, that measurements are made by and large at a constant 100dB output, which means, with a huge bass boost already applied (against the natural downslope of the 'phones), much more so than the one applied here. Also, music content itself slopes down in those frequencies. So the distortion you'll encounter in use of this combo is doubly not as bad as graphs suggest.
     
  2. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

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    That is a quite well done EQ for the 6xx. Think the only way I would personally improve it would be to not boost the 20-30hz region so much. The 6xx has quite high THD there and never will have particularly amazing slam due to the drivers only being 38mm. The boost from 30-200hz will be much appreciated though. Wont be a big issue for most music I guess as most music has very little going on down there, but might make it sound a little less clean than it could otherwise.

    The lower treble boost is very nice and well done, the 5-6k dip is biggest flaw the 6xx has FR wise IMO. Guessing for the average person that will be all the EQ you need.

    Edit, lol Joe replied as I was typing this about the distortion. Or perhaps I just didnt see it because I am tired :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  3. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    I don't really attempt to boost the lower regions (especially beyond whatever the baseline DSP applied by the model specific curve) on the 6xx using SW, as it just runs into what I think are mechanical limitations, but it improves it a lot when it comes to the upper mids and lower treble. Just opens it up, ironically making it more like a 600 without the shout.
     
  4. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    My Dynamat/coin/spider-modded HD650s take a bit of subbass boost quite nicely. It's still HD650 bass, but the increase in lower frequencies fills out a lot of music nicely without being too loose and woolly. The Zen EQ curve seems to boost midbass , which makes them sound worse to me (I pull down about 2dB from 150-250Hz). I'm also pulling down a bit around 3.5kHz for tracks with honky-sounding female vocals, but will try playing with the 6-7kHz range, even though mine don't have any perceived veil.

    HD650 bass EQ.jpg
     
  5. Joe Bloggs

    Joe Bloggs Acquaintance

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    For those of you wondering how other headphones from the Sennheiser line would match up with the ZEN CAN Signature 6XX, here are our predictions based on measurements |\/|
    [​IMG]
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The curves are very similar when we normalize them to 90Hz. (The iFi uses a lighter touch).
     
  7. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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  8. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    ...aaaaand a brief update that it's the last day to get one. If not now, it'll return later on this year :)
     
  9. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Sorry for resuscitating this (virtually dead) thread again. But I came across iFi's Zen Can Signature HFM edition -- henceforth abbreviated as ZCSH -- a little while ago and there has been full of surprises since then. I admit I am still too biasedly enthusiastic with this product, nonetheless please allow me to gabble about its awesomeness. (It's neither sponsored nor loaned to me. I purchased it myself.)

    Let me start from background stories a bit.

    Roughly 1.5 years ago, I believe Marv got a ZCS review sample of the first version (i.e., Drop one; having an analog eq tuned for senn 6x0) but active eq functionality was broken if I recall correctly. The loaner tour unfortunately couldn't make it. And we gradually lost our interest.

    Later I could hear the production version myself with 6xx, and without eq, it was underwhelmingly good. Its general characters did not synergize with 6xx as much as the name suggested. EQ setting was a little off to my taste, too. I concluded it's one tier or two below Jotunheim, Erish, and SW51.

    Looking back, there were a couple of serious confounders creating personal biases. First, my childish hearing skills and tastes don't deserve 6x0. No matter how they're hyped (and probably large portion would be true), I always feel like to lose lots of details, clearity, and even resolutions. Hearing amps and dacs with 6x0 feel me worse than those dacs/amps actually should sound. Second, I wasn't a big fan of Drop-exclusive products. I always start from psychologically skeptical position when it comes to anything newly released in Drop.com. I got to like some, but by default, I used to have a strong negative bias.

    As an aside, IFI has made things right later. They started to sell zen sig amps and dacs on their end independently from Drop (for the same msrp -- Drop still has perk to offer iPower X tho). And they released HFM- and Meze- versions of ZCS, too. I have no idea if they made any minor amendments in newer products. Maybe or maybe not. Only ifi knows. I digress.

    Ok, long intro. Now back to ZCSH.

    So far I've spent good amount of time with two different HFM headphones (Arya SE and 400SE). My preliminary impression at this point is extremely positive. Let me make a bold claim: With the right headphones, the zen can signature can rival or trade blows with any performance frontiers I can think of and became my favorite amps among anything non-high end I heard to date.

    Specific points below (with balanced in/out + active eq off).
    • Very responsive and fast. I can enjoy leading edges of every note with nice articulation and great ease while trailing decays was tad faster than I'd love.
    • I initially expected tonality dark but it wasn't that dark. My perception is rather a little brighter than 2541/motu hp out and magni 3+. Unsure if this is actual brightness or fooled by its speed and treble resolution.
    • Almost overly dark background. ZCSH's power supply (iPower 2) seems to play some roles. Ambient noise seems very suppressed than I normally hear with other gears. Borderline unnatural. After spending some hours in the first day, I got accustomed then eventually liked it.
    • It presents great level of details and microdynamics with decent macrodynamics. I really like how ifi found a sweet spot of pareto optimal among these virtues. This is the most dominant reason why ZCSH dethroned everything else and became my favorite amp. More on this later.
    • Headstage was ok. Not necessarily wide but very good at separation and layering. Very synergistic with HFM presentation.
    • Very cohesive and flowing. Mostly neutral but a little mid-centric.
    • Unbelievable form factor. Only tad bigger than magni. Size-performance ratio would be truly the planet best.
    All above were more obvious and to larger extent with Arya SE than 400SE. Not surprising as 400SE wasn't very scaling with better amplification. Interestingly when I tried with the modded 6xx, the combo sounded slightly better than what I remembered. But still making neither happy. I'd avoid this misfortune marriage any day. Switching back to Arya SE recovered all the awesomeness -- sounded downright full, up-close, and substantial.

    Price and/or performance wise, ZCSH competes against the best dynamic headphones amps in the affordable or semi-affordable budget range. Let me list a few with my comparative takes. Note that for accurate evaluation, I should re-hear all the amps below as I can misremember or inaccurately recall any time (more so for the last two amps).
    • Jotunheim 2: Jot 2 is still a micro king in my book (in terms of capability and elegancy) but Mjo made me want more in bass slamming and head stage. ZCSH has almost Jot2 level micro plus much better heft/slam.
    • Mjolnir 1 (OOP): Antithesis of Jot 2. Whenever I heard Mjo 1 I missed Jot 2's micro. ZCSH comes with scaled-down Mjo slam and Jot 2-ish micro.
    • Erish 1: Erish 1 and ZCSH might be rather similar than different. ZCSH is less forwarding, less blurry (in bass), and more effortless. Better prat also goes to ZCSH.
    • Gilmore lite: ZCSH is perhaps a little less detailed than Gilmore but less stiff and better resolving in microdynamics. Better headstage, too.
    • SW51+: Assuming the best pairing for each, I don't think the two amps drastically different in presentation. ZCSH can better suit my taste by a few ticks respectively in every criterion in my book: particularly bass heft, bass articulation, and black background.
    That's pretty much for now. More thoughts on HFM active eq and X-space to come later (Spoiler: I honestly like them if used with caution). Great job @iFi audio !

    Oh, pic or didn't happen.

    [​IMG]

    Product page: https://ifi-audio.com/products/zen-can-signature-hfm/
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
  10. señorhifi

    señorhifi Friend

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    I think it's set in stone at this point. If you're in EU and want the best bang for your buck, get the Zen Signature combo set (Zen Can Sig + Zen DAC Sig). You can literally get it prime shipped next day, for 450-500€. Combine this with an HD6X0 headphone, and enjoy. I am still surprised at how good the V1 Zen DAC Sig is.
     
  11. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Now I'd like to talk a little bit about extra feature of Zen Can Signature HFM. Namely, HFM mode and X-Space.

    Let me first explain the two in my own words.
    • HFM mode: Pre-defined analog equalization filters to compensate typical HFM frequency responses.
    • X-space: Cross-feeding circuits combined with channel-specific eq.
    I believe the latter is implemented across almost all the ifi amplifiers. But the former exists only in this product as of now.

    HFM Mode

    At first, I was skeptical about HFM mode as there are quite a lot HFM headphones out there. I didn't think there can exist one unified set of filters to sort out hfm issues. It turns out the hfm mode did NOT intend to address all the problems. Rather, it focuses a couple of aspects commonly shown in HFM orthos. Not a bad strategy I think.

    To be specific, I hear it did the following things.
    1. Boost HFM upper midrange scoop.
    2. Mildly rotate tonal balance clockwise.
    3. Boost lower to middle bass.
    There might be more, but I could not identify anything else major.

    #1 is very desirable. When I messed with eq, I also came up with similar functioning filters. It feels like ifi's filter boosts 3-ish decibels. Less aggressive than my own setting (+4), and after a few backs and forths, I found ifi's one worked better for me. FWIW this "scooping" pattern is shown across entire hfm ortho spectrum ranging from he400se to susvara even shangri-la. Thus, having this filter in the amp makes sense to me. Boosting 2khz and its neighborhood (of course assuming properly done) can bring many benefits -- including presence and snap of many instruments.

    #2 is also understandable. I hear this is implemented subtly compared to #1. Turning on the eq did not make HFM dark or warm tonality. But enough to motivate me to readjust my treble filters less aggressively. Again I like what ifi ended up with.

    #3 is the most interesting and possibly the most controversial. Shortly speaking, this sounds like a low shelving filter to boost 70hz downward. Its effect to middle bass was rather subtle (1 decibel or so) but tuned fairly aggressively toward subbass region. I hear no less than +4-5 decibels in the lowest notes (20-30hz). Fortunately, the way this filter was constructed made the resulting sound not bleed into any upper regions. And due to this characters, it's not very easily heard. Subbass-heavy tracks are required to point this out confidently.

    I originally didn't like any idea to boost bass. And for electrodynamic hps, I still think so. But this time around, I tried to keep open minded and went through various tracks myself. I eventually found it not very annoying and indeed perceived it as a different flavor rather than performance degradation.

    HFM mode only already works for me giving me an alternative flavor. To my surprise, however, this hfm mode turned out to work greatly with x-space which I will talk about in a bit.

    X-Space

    Next up is X-Space. I don't like the naming convention but the audio industry used to put weird names to crossfeed anyway.

    I will omit per-filter analysis part. To be honest, unlike HFM mode, x-space makes use of both dimensions together (time and frequency) and left and right channels get mixed after being separately equalized. Even in a disproportionate way. My ears are just too untrained to do such an advanced analytic listening. I may revisit in-depth analysis once I get some per-channel measurements myself.

    While I still don't think x-space fully addresses the issue of in-head localization (at least not that extent for me; moreover with arya's spatial ability I don't need it that much), ifi's implementations were impressive in some aspects.
    • In my experience, well-known crossfeed circuits (e.g., cmoy, meier, etc) have common weaknesses to lose treble clarity. Proprietary ones added more proactive compensation to address them. iFi also seems to go that route. I did hear some tonality changes but clarity didn't seem to reduce much.
    • I found the combination of x-space and hfm mode highly synergistic. #2 and #3 in the hfm mode offset x-space tonality change nicely. It does make sense because x-space rotates tonality anti-clockwise while hfm mode does in the opposite direction. Most potentially bad changes are cancelled out.
    Overall, while they're not the purist way by any means, I do like to hear with BOTH hfm and x-space modes on. HFM only mode is also good to me. X-space only on didn't work very well for me though. Preference between the first two is really recording-dependent and bottomline neither did annoy me in the most challenging tracks I threw in.

    Turning off the filters rather surprised me. Tuning off the hfm mode, some image edges became less clear and less separated with somewhat drier presentation. Turning off the x-space mode resulted in less aural breathing space. Going back to no signal processing worlds may require significant amount of hours to re-calibrate my ears.. Oh well.

    All these positive effects I enthusiastically spoke above are probably because ifi did it not only relying on ap555 but also carefully finalizing with human ears and multiple hfm models. Again, wonderful job!, @iFi audio
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2022
  12. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    To summarize, while I hesitate to recommend iFi's Zen Can Signature HFM to some HFM products -- In particular, HE6, Sus, and probably all the classic HFM models -- ZCSH is insane value to the rest of HFMs. Its pure amplification ability is right up there with Jotunheim 2 or Mjolnir 1. It can even do balanced stuff. Fantastic form factor fits with challenging spaces better than competitors. And ifi's analog signal processing features bring the whole experience of HFM cans to the next level.

    So far the downside would include
    1. Ok pairing with my 6xx. Largely underwhelming if compared to the best 6x0 partners (Erish, SW51, etc). Unsure if it's only 6x0 thing or applicable to general electrodynamic hps,
    2. The efficacy to inefficient HFM hps is unconfirmed. Voltage swing seems ok but it's hard to believe power delivery would be equivalent to monster amps. I am trying to get a chance to try out sus myself hence may update once that happens.
    3. Pentaconn connectors/terminations are mandatory to use it balanced. It's very bothering unless you already built pentaconn-based rig. Unfortunately improvement of balanced ins/outs was very noticeable over unbalanced ins/outs during my evaluation.
     
  13. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Dropping some interesting measurements related to Zen Can Signature.

    [​IMG]

    This is the post-eq frequency response of Arya SE. While I cut 5.5khz myself, HFM mode mostly accounts for both down tilted tonality and obvious bass boosting. As I wrote in the previous posts, I prefer to turn on X-Space crossfeeder on top of hfm correction mode. I did hear x-space changed balance and the measurement could verify it to some extent, as shown in the next plot.

    [​IMG]

    Upper curve means the main effect. For example, left channel mic records left signal. right mic for right signal. For the main channels, X-space reduced upper bass a bit and lifted mid to treble. The cross-fed signal (dotted line) was modulated in the opposite way. The "sum" of these two signals are what the user actually hears.

    [​IMG]

    Please note the solid line means the sum of main and cross-fed signals. It's slightly but meaningfully more neutral than HFM mode only. Smart design.

    One caveat is it's not for all the headphones. I'm also evaluating 8XX loaner now and to me 8xx didn't scale as much with X-space as Arya SE did.

    [​IMG]

    Since HFM mode won't do any good for HD8XX, I compared my own EQ and its combination with X-space. It doesn't sound that bad, and I do like to use X-space even with 8xx. However, I found myself turn it on and off depending on tracks. With Arya SE, I always left X-space (hfm mode too) on.
     

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