Verum: Doing The Right Thing

You're apparently m17x so will respond as such even in light of the perma: I'll go on record as saying I think this sucks because I actually rather enjoyed your posts, but this is likely where the whole bar analogy comes back in with a vengeance— it's not just the content of meaningful discussion but the patrons therein getting along and being able to disagree while maintaining integrity.

And this is a good example of that. Yes it's a much smaller scale than the former and I'd love for both to friggin end, but this is PERSONAL— per the Reddit thread linked SBAF gets shit on for giving Garuspik a pass even in light of his conduct on random Discords. Honestly, who cares? I and presumably others on the forum stand by understanding that some people are raised with unfortunate beliefs and deserve an opportunity to grow up, never mind that "growing up" nowadays very often just means aligning one's moral compass with the others in their vicinity.

The second chance offered to Garu was punted across the room, out a window. f**k that, they get tossed out through the same hole.

That said, arguments about how his conduct is the norm in parts of Europe hold some water. Many more people in my area than most expect drop casual n-bombs and maintain reprehensible stances on whether people's manner of dress or conduct mean they're "asking for it" when they get assaulted— shit like that takes ages to wash out, not everyone can be bothered to try.

People should still try.

But f**k this. There's being as far removed from politics as feasible and then there's not acknowledging that some people get hurt just because of their appearance or other shallow reasons and deliberately ignoring that.

I'm aware there are people on the forum still who are ideologically opposed to that, but there's a way for them to engage with dissenters and not get "cancelled": take a step back and genuinely try to consider whether or not you hold the beliefs you do because you struggled to earn them or they were just the easiest to latch onto given your life so far, your financial situation, your friends, or literally too many other factors to bother listing.

Cancel culture started out meaningful but devolved into a Twitter joke almost immediately after.

Am I sad Postmodern Jukebox also seems to have been engaging in discriminatory behaviour and Scott Bradlee refuses to speak out against it or acknowledge it? Yes. Am I sad that Bon Appétit and by extension Condé Nast as a whole turned out to be full of rot on the inside? Yes. But I'm voting with my damn wallet because that's the way to get shit done in capitalism.

80% of Garuspik's net income off Verum and any other businesses from Kickstarter date onwards, payment to any employees untouched?

Stepping away from this now because I'm pretty sure I'm done talking and I need a few more hours of sleep.

 

You gave the benefit of the doubt back then, I think at that time it was fair, an intern could very well have done that, obviously after seeing all the shit from then on, it was more clear

There's no such thing as bad press...if you're famous, if you run a company especially sales, what the majority of people think of you and how you handle yourself matters. It makes you wonder if he's one of those people who get drunk and just talk pure shit, quite ridiculous, what he didn't think about is his customers, this affects his company, now a lot of people own Verums and it raises questions about warranty, after sales etc I would hope he makes amends or at least stays true to his customers.

 

It is not enough to be aware about something - you need to be part of the culture to fully understand it. And US is like what - 4% of world population? Ok, may be 10% aware about specifics of US culture. Xenophobia is universal human trait that surfaces in different forms in different cultures and US view is pretty unique to US due to historical reasons (may be South African ppl may understand it too)
Lets just say that Garupsik would not say what he said if he lived in US and the forum would not ban Garupsik if it was Ukrainian forum
It is not in defense of Garupsik, just say that people indeed live in very different worlds.

 

you are not incorrect but my experience with Ukranian people is that they are spiritually enlightened, much more so than your average American, and this enlightenment is a greater impetus against racist ideology than any degree of historical shame or pressure of politically correct conformity. especially those old enough to have experienced the fresh aftermath of Stalinism. it seems Garuspik is young and does not understand. he should read Solzhenitsyn. perhaps then he can display true remorse.

this is actually true, but what about wishing cancer upon people's families? does basic human decency also elude the Ukranian web-forum? I can answer for you, I read them frequently - no

 

Yes. We all should read Solhenitsyn - the young in Eastern Europe/Russia who were born after Soviets as well as those of us here in western civ. who are often so zealous for the right thing. This is often quoted from his Gulag Archipelago:

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart."

Do you speak/read Ukrainian @k4star?

 

not yet I keep telling myself I will take classes but have not found the time. I am fascinated by Ukranian and Slavic culture as a whole. at work, I deal with a Ukranian development team and their idiosyncrasies.

in audio, an interest in vintage and esoteric equipment led me to start reading forums such as hi-fi.ru, shabad.ru, classicaudio.ru, etc. using google translate. these forums all have off-topic sections where people discuss politics and such. I have seen racial slurs, xenophobic and nationalist sentiment, sure. but people clearly being malicious, indecent, promoting hateful ideology are swiftly banned and their posts erased. this is the same of any web forum not moderated by sadists.

in real life, I have befriended several audiophiles who immigrated from ex-Soviet bloc countries. Ukraine, Georgia, Slovakia, the kindest people with the biggest hearts I have ever met; a strong sense of loyalty to friends and willingness to help. do any of these people harbor closeted thoughts of racism? I doubt, but I know they are not spending their free time in chat rooms spamming n n n n n. this is not what people with lives do, and it just has nothing to do with culture, only psychological and emotional deficiencies

 

Sad thing is people learn to be racist, not born with it. After experiencing racist from all walks of life directly (being refused service at a food stand due to "they don't serve my kind") and indirectly (seeing a Korean store owner using the N word to someone who was black), nothing surprised me anymore. In matter of fact, this is pretty depressing.

 

So who is going to throw the trash can through the window?

 

Mods made the right call in banning here, simply not acceptable to have that level of vitriol in any community like this. Racism and any kind of hatred based on someones identity is a cancer that destroys everything it touches.

I think the points about Eastern European culture being more tolerant of racist language probably have merit and are helpful in understanding why Garuspik may have thought he could get away with the foul things he said but ultimately that does not excuse it. It is a bigotry of its own sort to hand wave away misbehavior from "less enlightened cultures", standards of behavior must apply evenly to everyone.

As a side note I think the immensely toxic 4chan esque behavior that has run rampant all over the internet especially YouTube and such probably played a bigger part than Eastern European culture in thinking these kinds of shitty ideas are the "truth". I often wondered what would happen if someone who was not a native English speaker and knew very little about what life in USA was like stumbled across this nonsense and well I guess now I know!

I can also second the need to read the Gulag Archipelago, it was one of the most difficult books I have ever read but everyone should. It truly shocks and disappoints that it is not required reading in schools.

 

I don't have much to add to this thread. I definitely agree with the mods' decision, such comments are unacceptable. Others have already said everything much better than I could have. I'm also not versed in the cultural differences. The few people I've met from nearby areas didn't seem as racist at all, but there's also a large age difference.

I'm genuinely curious how many people are going to vote with their wallets. While not the same issue at all I'm not so sure how much of the same effect we saw with MSB back then. Haven't heard the Verum yet, but I will say my interested definitely dropped. I guess only Garuspik himself can really tell after some time how many customers he ended up losing.
What are legitimate alternatives for people looking for a planar in that price range? HFM HE400 variant? Is the newer Monoprice open back worth a shot? I just wonder if there's some direct substitute for his product.

I'm mainly asking because I was really sad to see the image compilations on reddit. Really feels like something of value was lost based on the reviews I've read.

 

If I recall correctly, Verum was sold at $350 (not sure if shipped or not)
Some (if not all) I can easily think of:

• Drop HE4XX : $160
• Drop Panda Wireless : $400
• HFM Sundara : $350
• Audeze LCD1 : $400

Except Panda that I haven't heard yet, all above including verum-1 are decent planars to me. All come with its own limitations. To me they're all in more or less similar tier. I am even thinking whether planars are worthy for this price range. Tonal balance may go to Verum, but that's imho the easiest part to control.

 

Have you guys not seen his discord and email diarrhea?. He did not just use the N word, he called black people

Spoiler: diarrhea

stupid, incompetent, monkeys, ignorants and violent.

That's not just a misuse of a word, that's a flat out racism in every f'ing culture!.

And that what he said with his main account, I didn't mention the garbage been said with his alt account.

 

Solzhenitsyn was ahead of his time... or maybe we are just behind. I haven't figured out how to get people to read anything from him, though. I couldn't put The Gulag Archipelago down personally. It blew my mind that I wasn't taught any of this and I felt like I had to tell everyone. Not too many books give me that sense of moral responsibility, i.e. "people need to know about this!" Changed my whole world forever. Also an unbelievably relevant book to read here and now. Very much needed.

To me cultural differences aren't a justification at all. It may be fine where he is at (dubious to me, but I honestly don't know anything about Ukraine,) but that doesn't mean we need it here. It wouldn't be okay for any of us to go around saying things like that, not to mention lie. He may not have seen an issue with it due to his surroundings... but he should be able to understand that it's not kosher with the people he has chosen to surround himself with. So to me that's meaningless. If someone is a guest in your house, they follow your rules. And if not they leave. Nobody is entitled to eschew the standard of decency of wherever they happen to be.

It's not a case of a couple faux pas, or some little accident. Let's not sell it short and act like there was no way he could've known the consequences. Anybody functioning on that level of interaction and business can 'read the room' and figure it out. No to mention, he DID know it was wrong... when the first story came around and blew over, that was an out where he could've said "Okay, this isn't flying well and I need to adjust my behavior or things are going to be bad for me." But he didn't do that. Instead, it got worse. At that point, it became disrespectful to everyone. No more cheeks left to turn there.

It's more than just casual racism, but a deeper maliciousness. One of prejudice and unrepentant dishonesty. There's really no special way to dice that. The racism is kind of astonishingly bad, but to me the lying is the bigger character flaw. About a million other ways that kind of lack of regard manifests. There would have been other problems, and may even have been that just went unnoticed! What else might someone like that try to slip past people? We're talking about someone who is happy to put many people below him... and even the ones he supposedly considers equal, he spits down on by lying. That's a major red flag. He treated people who supported him like a means to an end. I personally find that completely reprehensible.

I'm quasi-new here, but I appreciate that the powers that be make an effort to weed out toxins that could harm the community. It's almost worse that he makes renowned headphones. It makes us mutually representative. There is a responsibility to hold people to a consistent standard. That's actually one thing that caught me about this place. You don't f**k around, even on the tough calls. I wish things weren't like this and we could just call it an honest mistake, but in this case there really is no room for that. The position you were put into wasn't fair. He made it so there could never be a positive outcome. Things were going to be bad for someone at some point. And sadly he had it coming.

No need to drag it out. I don't think too many here would've chosen differently than staff. Not on something like this. I think it's enough to have this spot where people can air it out and then hopefully go back to what we all came here for. I don't see a debate. People can claim the PC police did it, or it's too much politics. But to me the narcissistic disingenuousness is enough. Coulda been something less vile than what it actually was and it'd still be dark as shit.

 

I don't see how the whole "he lives in Ukraine" thing works. Garuspik is selling his wares to an international audience. He must adhere to international laws, and therefore must also adhere to international cultural norms, be it US or otherwise. Since he can't do that, the market rejects him.

It's simple really. Imagine this forum being elsewhere like... China, or Japan, or South East Asia. If he makes a derogatory remark in those places, he's out as well.

 

Pretty much. I think it's something like the friend of the murderer. You invest in seeing a person do well and you believe that they are good. And maybe their presence in your life has been good. It doesn't change the consequences in the eyes of anybody else, and the friend knows it. But sometimes the heart reaches. Nobody wants to believe that someone they trusted and believed in could do something like that.

And in some communities, he was more than just a business... not some megacorp but an actual person that people could feel a bond towards.

Though to me, that makes it worse... putting people in a position to feel that way and just not caring. Not to mention what it means for people who work with him, who may have been depending on his efforts. It's just such a slap in the face.

 

And the sad thing gets even sadder, while reading this thread Rep John Lewis has passed. I dunno if I should take it as a sign or not considering what has been going on as of late.

I do believe things will get better, it must.

 

Might take longer than either of us might prefer though.