Hifiman HE-6

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Meteora, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    597
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SGV, CA
    Not sure why you guys like to pinch at wattage amounts. Overkill and not worry about it.
     
  2. Oregonian

    Oregonian New

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Oregon...........
    Ran the HE-6 from the speaker taps of a vintage Pioneer Spec system (250wpc) - it was a revelation how good a headphone could sound. Did same from my SA-9900 and SX-1050 - from my (admittedly) biased view vintage high power speaker amps are a great solution to the hard to maximize HE-6.

    By the way - first post over here - recognize some of you gents from the other headphone site.
     
  3. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    259
    Trophy Points:
    63
    well it's because the entire HE 6 community swears by Speaker amps shoving like 200 wpc :/ an if you under drive the HE 6 it's terrible apparently... honestly given how much praise the EMber get's at 2.4wpc I should just buy the darn thing already
     
  4. jelt2359

    jelt2359 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Did you mean buy the HE6 or the Ember? I'm not sure I would buy the Ember for driving the HE6. I agree with ohhgourami, just overkill it. I'm running separates now (pre + power), and it sounds awesome. I used to own an Auralic Taurus MKII for example- a famous review site (but not the specific famous review guy who runs it) published a review saying it drove the HE6 well, made it sound TOTL, etc etc...

    No. It was definitely loud enough, if that's what he meant...

    EDIT: I have to say I understand you because I went through the same journey as you. Probably most the HE6 owners did too, frankly. I remember looking at specs at different ohms and trying to convert to 50 ohms, etc etc. I also asked headamp manufacturers themselves if their amps would cut it (their answer: always yes. My experience: always no). After a while I gave up and said heck, if HE6 is really so important to me (it is) then I should just stop mucking around with headamps.
     
  5. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    259
    Trophy Points:
    63
    it's funny you mention that, so many ppl over kill it an blow their drivers, Hifiman reps on HF went so far as to say it was a Problematic design flaw of the HE 6. Either way, I'm jsut going to get teh stupid damn thing an be done with it

    my NFb10ES2 will have to b enough, an if it's not I'll hold onto to it an wait to get an amp that can do it

    but no I'd rather not overkill it, I have other headphones to drive :/
     
  6. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    597
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SGV, CA
    No, it's because every single denier took their words back after hearing it on a decent speaker amp.
     
  7. jelt2359

    jelt2359 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Sounds like a good idea. Go one at a time. Personally that's why I started looking for headamps that also had preouts... And then power amp :D

    Actually, this setup now works for my other planars as well. Quite interesting to hear an Audeze driven by my Hegel H20. Bass = awesome.
     
  8. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    597
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SGV, CA
    I've had my HE-6 longer than most at over 5 years and with it being my only headphone I'm sure I got more hours on it than anyone. I'm also an early adopter of speaker amps. I started out my journey with an NFB10ES (original) and while it sounded fine, it doesn't deliver dynamics like a speaker amp.

    I finally had some dynamics plugged into my Krell like the HD580 and HD800 and they sounded fantastic.

    The warning has always been to watch the volume anyway. Those guys probably got really knob happy listening at 100dB.
     
  9. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

    Contributor Banned
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    259
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You see that's my entire hesitation :/ most ppl tell me just that. The NEB10ES does enough to get volume but not quite enough to pull out dynamics, leaving me to think I might as well just enjoy my HE 4 and wait for the HE 6 to come down even more in price. Maybe in around a year I'll have enough on hand to grab the Master 11 and drop a second Desk into my room so I have the space for it, 9/10 I'll find the extra details with a better Dac/Amp for my HE 4 and be even more impressed with the HE 6 when I have a little extra power to drive it

    An yea the NFB10ES that you had, has a touch more power than my current model does :/ putting me back to amp first then headphone. And hopefully, Audeze will keep making it's Vegan pads ;3
     
  10. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    597
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    SGV, CA
    Don't even think about the Master-11. Just heard it over the weekend and it doesn't do much better than the NFB10ES!

    HE-6 doesn't coming down on price that much more I think. It's going to be better than the HE-4 either way.
     
  11. jelt2359

    jelt2359 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Another good option (if you can find one) is the HE5, my modded one sounds quite clearly from the same family as the HE6, with treble response that's quicker and smoother, although not quite as impactful overall. Power requirements are similar, though.

    Just thought I'd mention this since between the HE4 and HE6 there's also a 5, lol.
     
  12. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,250
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Not to mention if you find one you might even be able to get Lius to turn it into a code-x ;)
     
  13. jelt2359

    jelt2359 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Yup, 'my modded one' :p
     
  14. Fearless1

    Fearless1 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    This is the truth. And most of us that own the HE-6 have(had)a high power headphone amp at some point and have tried both.
     
  15. Peter78

    Peter78 New

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Well, back to the drawing board...

    I e-mailed Audio-gd, to order a Precision 1, to use with my incoming HE-6's, and I received the following response:

    "Sorry the Precision 1 have not the stock. it will discontinue."
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
  16. Peter78

    Peter78 New

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Since the Audio-gd Precision 1 does not appear to be an option any longer, I'm now looking at the Odyssey products. I've heard very good things about the Khartago with the HE-6's, but the Khartago is a power amp (not an integrated amp). Odyssey does, however, have the Cyclops, which appears to be the Khartago with a passive pre-amp (potentiometer).

    Has anyone tried the Odyssey Cyclops with the HE-6's? I'm guessing that how well the passive pre-amp works will depend on the DAC/source.
     
  17. Tobes

    Tobes Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Well, I don't have experience with the Cyclops, but if your DAC has a preamp function this may be the best way to operate the Khartago - it sounds excellent with the Grace DAC/pre. My Khartago does have most of the optional factory upgrades.
    I have owned the Violectric V281 - about 4W/50ohms - but sold it after comparing to the Khartago (~20W/50ohms).

    FWIW I don't think power output or (especially) current output explains or is responsible for why speaker amps sound better.
    The quality of the power amp seems to be paramount - which might explain why some HE6 owners gravitate to amps from Krell, Pass, Moon etc.

    For instance, in comparing the class A Xindak PA-M - a pretty decent amplifier - the HE6 is more than capable of showing that the Khartago has more purity, less grain, better focus, more expansive soundstage, faster everywhere and with more realistic texture and detail. The same advantages the Khartago displays on speakers - regardless of the fact that the Khartago's power output and (40A) current capacity is in no way being utilised with the HE6.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  18. Peter78

    Peter78 New

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Thanks, Tobes, for the response. My DAC does not have a pre-amp function. I do, however, think that I have an extra Emotiva Control Freak (passive pre-amp) lying around, so maybe I can use that and get the Khartago, instead of the Cyclops. The Khartago would be a better choice if I decided to add an active pre-amp later. On the other hand, if I decided that a passive pre-amp is sufficient for the long-run, it would be nice to have it all in one box (like the Cyclops).

    Regarding the power output, yes, my understanding is the same. Clearly, the HE-6 is not using the amount of power that some are able to supply with these massive, high-powered speaker amps. Crunching the numbers easily confirms that. So, it does appear to be about the quality. I guess that my disconnect is the following: I don't understand why a very high quality headphone amp does not have better quality power than, say, a vintage amp, at the power-level required to drive the HE-6's, which do not appear to be as power-hungry as many suggest.

    I actually received my HE-6's, yesterday. I did switch to the Focus pads, from the leather ones that came installed, after a bit of listening. I've been listening with my Gustard H10 (a V200 clone), with the highest gain setting. It has plenty of juice to drive them; honestly, it sounds pretty good to me. If the speaker amps sound as much better as many have been saying, these are going to be truly amazing. Your comparison of the V281 with the Khartago is especially helpful.

    If you don't mind my asking, which upgrades did you get to the Khartago, and how much extra did that add to the price? The upgrades do not have the pricing listed, and I haven't contacted Klaus, yet. The options may be priced differently now, of course, but I was just curious about a ballpark figure. If the upgrades are reasonably priced, I'd likely get those, as well.

    Thanks again.
     
  19. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,320
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Khartago allegedly uses the same circuit as the Stratos, but with smaller heatsinks and a different PS. I had the Stratos Plus with the HE-6. It drove it with finesse (unlike any HP amp I tried to pair the 6 with). But yes power =/= good amplifier, just ask Emotiva's current bottom of the line. The First Watt F3 easily trumped the Stratos in any dimension of sound, but didn't seem to have the same dominance over the driver in the low frequencies like the Odyssey and its reserves of power did.

    Regarding "the numbers" see Bill-P's excellent November post: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/hifiman-he-6.539/page-2#post-13875

    I had to send me HE-6 back. The comfort wasn't a problem by the end of it, got used to it, and the band molded to my skull, but ultimately the fuzzor mod was a bit too much trouble, and I just rolled back to the 650s for now.
     
  20. Tobes

    Tobes Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    18
    There are a lot of different options and Klaus can advise which are the most beneficial and cost effective.
    My Khartago has the Plitron transformer extra capacitance in the form of the more expensive 'Reference caps', black PCB, parts upgrades, WBT RCA connectors and upgraded Groenberg wiring. I think that upped the cost around $500. I also retrofitted (myself) the top of the range WBT Nexgen silver binding posts - $400 - which is also an Odyssey factory option (made a very positive audible improvement - the mind boggles).
    I think the basic PS/parts upgrade - that form the 'plus' upgrade - cost something like $200, but don't quote me. That's the Plitron transformer extra capacitance and pcb component upgrades. It's possible some of these 'options' now come with the standard amp - best to ask Klaus.

    I should note that the Khartago is not going to be suitable if you're seeking a compact option. While it's only about 120mm tall, the footprint is quite large - the size of a large AV receiver. Headphone amps are far more practical in this regard. I'm not sure what Klaus' thoughts are regarding the use of his amps to drive headphones - I imagine he'd be a bit bemused.

    Yes, my understanding is that the Stratos amps are based on the same PCB with dual transformers, more capacitance and a nicer case. Both amps of course borrow their circuit from an expensive and highly regarded Symphonic Line design.
    Never heard the FW amps, but they have a very good rep with the HE6.
    Quite a bit more expensive than the Khartago - especially in Australia with the current exchange rate - and perhaps not as flexible if you also want to also use the amp to drive insensitive/difficult speaker loads.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016

Share This Page