Affordable SS Amps Shootout! Magni 3+ Vs Erish Vs Gilmore Lite Mk2

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Vtory, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    As I posted earlier, I was quite happy with Erish in driving VO and 6XX. It definitely outperforms competitors in similar or upper price ranges among I heard. The only unknown among the comparable price points is Gilmore Lite 2 that I didn’t have enough hours with. Fortunately, I got offered for a limited? loaner for Lite 2 -- I’d thank @purr1n (loaner offeror) and @zerodeefex (unit owner) for their kindness at first.

    Ok, let’s go straight to the points.

    For each headphone I tested, there was a clear winner to me (the best pairing). As usual, prepare enough salt for my subjective biases and probably abnormal tastes to some extent.


    Grado Hemp: Schiit Magni 3+ ($99)

    GL2 seems to obtain its optimal performance when driving inefficient loads. This doesn’t do any justice to super efficient (~100 dbspl/mw) Hemps. Pot range problem resolved after Sys inserted into the chain, but the overall sound lacks delicacy moreover transient too squared to my liking. On the contrary, M3p shines over GL2 as if it is a much more expensive product. It surprisingly well resolves small nuances as well as reproduces with convincing snappiness.

    Looking at not this great pairing with other headphones, I’m guessing high sensitivity drivers may benefit M3p by operating it in its “linear” region. But I digress.

    I’m still searching for the optimal amp for my Grado, but M3p keeps raising sanity questions “Why do I need to spend more when $99 could be just enough?”.

    Anyway, overall, for Grados, M3p is the clear winner in every aspect. No doubt.


    Senn/Drop HD6XX: Geshelli Erish ($199)

    M3p does many things right in driving this challenging transducer, but when it comes to comparison, it wasn’t in the same league with Eri or GL2. High loudness aside, I could not hear enough juice or energy with M3p + 6XX, which potentially drags any further evaluations. Maybe it’s not entirely M3p’s fault -- Sennheiser largely blamable as this discomfort was the most annoying with 6XX compared to other headphones.

    Eri vs GL2 is kinda a matter of preference. But I find Eri + 6XX clearer, cleaner, and having much less veil (Aside: I thought the veil vanished with Erish until I heard Grado side by side). GL2, by comparison, is tad warmer and of richer tones, but too thick and relatively slower to me than Eri. This is a little unexpected as I recalled GL2 as a little lean and thin sounding from the memory of a short audition.

    GL2 is super resolving enough to live up to the hype, but regarding 6XX, I hear more details and nuances when driven by Eri, because cooler tonal balance resulting from the combo makes it easier to focus more on the small things with less distraction.

    Sounds unfair? Might be. So is life.


    ZMF Verite Open: Headamp Gilmore Lite 2 ($499 special psu not included)

    Holy shit. This combo sounds fantastic. As I described above, this amp has a lot to like, but the previous two headphones drag Lite2’s virtues for respective reasons. Pairing with VO seems to unlimit all such restrictions. Super resolving, rich tones, and sheer technicalities all synergize well with VO’s inherent capabilities. It’s almost a scaled down version of VO+Ravenswood that I remember. There’s neither effortlessness nor organic sounding, but anything else mostly reproduced with VO+Lite2.

    M3p again the weakest player in the bunch for similar reasons. Worth noting that I felt less annoyed with M3p+VO than with M3p+6XX. This could be because VO is more self-contained as is. Not surprising to me as I personally viewed 6X0’s scalability as a hint of its lacking competency out of the box for an independent audiophile tool (i.e., far less competent when suboptimal upstream paired).

    Eri is a close second. What I described in 6XX pairing still applies to VO, but VO+Eri is weaker at delivering emotional nuance. Things get relatively flatter and more inorganic with VO+Eri. Slightly more digital-ish in certain tracks, too.

    I think with Eri I would be 95% as happy as I am with Lite2, but that last one twentieth seems a pretty solid margin between these two amps.

    I’m just not convinced by the price. Am I really willing to pay 2.5 times? That could be a tough question. A lot of adjustments needed for my diminishing return curve to make me pull the trigger (if I am on the market). There’s also potential improvement through PSU discussed in Lite 2 thread, which implies a nervosa I want to avoid all the time.

    If VOs are all my headphones and I don’t want to spend more than 1k usd, then Lite2 is doubtlessly a very attractive -- perhaps the best -- choice.


    Conclusion (sorted by MSRP)
    • Magni 3+ : With the right headphones (Grado or efficient drivers), it’s really hard to believe this amp only asks $99. Hard to nitpick but maybe lacking in refined tones, juice, and speed when compared to pricier alternatives.
    • Erish: Still my top choice among op-amp based head amps. Speed, clarity, and transparency are all top notch -- hard to beat regardless of price points. Makes 6XX very enjoyable. (Relatively) flatter tones and vivid-but-not-super-delicate nature need more caution in pairing. Agreeable pricing also gets me.
    • Gilmore Lite 2: KG’s big-stick attitudes aside, this amp sounds much better than expected. I have never thought richer timbre, tones, and technical capabilities could come together through active solid state circuits (that’s typically the realm of $$-$$$ tubes). $500 amp only or $800 with a special PSU would be a little higher than I would like to see though.
    Questions, thoughts, or feedback are all welcome.

    Rigs used for evaluation
    • Schiit Bifrost 2 bal out → Geshelli Erish
    • Schiit Bifrost 2 se out → Splitter → Schiit Magni 3+ (low gain mode)
    • Schiit Bifrost 2 se out → Splitter → Schiit SYS (pot 12 o’c: about 18db attenuation) → Headamp Gilmore Lite2

    Headphones used
    • M3p, GL2, Eri: Sennheiser/Drop HD6XX
    • M3p, GL2, Eri: ZMF Verite Open Ziricote (universe lam pads equipped)
    • M3p, GL2: Grado Hemp (f-cush equipped)

    Short names dictionary
    • Eri = Erish
    • M3p= Magni 3+
    • GL2 = Gilmore Lite 2
    • 6XX = HD6XX
    • VO = Verite Open (Ziricote)

    Associated threads
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
  2. A Child of the Jago

    A Child of the Jago Facebook Friend

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    I have two rigs: one when I'm travelling and the other for when I'm at home.

    Home rig: Tidal -> Bifrost 2 -> Ravenswood DSHA-3F -> VO
    Travel rig: Tidal -> Eitr -> Modi Multibit -> Gilmore Lite MK2 -> VO

    As @Vtory says, there is a sense that the Gilmore is a diluted DSHA-3F - the Gilmore is kind of like the DSHA-3F minus the 3F's holographic wow factor, and perhaps 30% less macro and micro detail. The DSHA-3F is more vivid, more alive, more tangible; whereas the Gilmore is warmer, woolier, a little more obfuscated, the Gilmore presentation is in fact lovely if you enjoy a kind of warm, laid-back but engaging listen - an Oloroso sherry to the DSHA-3F's Greek coffee with a heap of Demerara. But in spite of all that they are similar, no doubt.

    If you own DSHA-3F then no need to buy the Gilmore (like I do) unless you want a travel rig as they are that similar. But if you don't own DSHA-3F and want to experience something along that same path for a lot less money then the Gilmore Lite (with VO) is certainly worth a look-in - and that 30% margin might get a little closer with HeadAmp's new PSU.

    Maybe it's best summarised to say that if the DSHA-3F has the Verite Open's drivers by the balls then the Gilmore has them by the short-and-curlies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  3. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    I wanted to chime in here as I had a chance to recently compare an original Mangi (thanks to @Ksorota) with a Magni 3+ (since this amp is highly regarded by @rhythmdevils)

    Pics or it did not happen:

    Magni's.jpg

    Note: DIY Custom Gilmore Dynalo clone on left, and yes, that is a Vali 2 on top with a RCA 6CG7, one of my favorite tubes for that amp - more on both those in a moment.

    It was very evident that the Magni 3+ was a clear upgrade from Magi. I mean, it should be, right. I was originally wanting to get a Magi 2 for this review to be complete, but one listen to the Magi 1 and they were worlds apart, so no reason.

    The Magni 1 sounded more closed off, more grey, and lacked more dynamically than the 3+. The gain is stuctured different, so the volume did not match completely, but I also think the taper on the Magi 3+ is more tapered. The Magi 1 was still way more than an O2 and very engaging. It still had some of that mid-glare grain that is on these amps, it was still engaging and powered my headphones well, including the PMx2's (which can be picky on amps).

    The Magni 3+ sounded warmer and more dynamic and more aggressive. It never gets as authoritative as Mjolnir 1, but in high gain can provide plenty of volume without much fuss or harsh nasties. Low gain sounded more laid back and closer in sound to the Gilmore and Vali 2, but still could not shake the grain and kind of duller grainy mids. I can see why this is a recommended amp as it can really shine in high-gain and for $99 is a no-brainer. I can only a Magi 2 sounding inbetween the 1 and 3.

    Side note on the Magni 3+: And on warmup the bass and warmth did get better. However, it does sound like a different amp in low gain. It can sound a bit cold and clinical on first turn on, fair warning.

    One thing I did not get with this amp is the congestion I got from the Jot2, and the confusion mess that was Maginus. It sounded dynamic and even compilated passages sounded fine. The biggest thing is just the grainyness that does not sound "clear" until you draw the volume dial to ear splitting levels. It is more in the mids, and can make natural instruments have artificial qualities - but that is just SS glare. Most won't care or even hear it as I could give this to my friend who is used to listening directly from his recording interface and think it sounds fantastic - because it IS fantastic over the crap op amp driven headphone amp out of his interface or his phone. It really is a hi-fi (or mid-fi if you like) in a small box. But it is no more than the same Onkyo or Pioneer receiver you have at home, just designed for headphones.

    I still preferred Vali 2 to both. Going back to Vali 2 just provided more black background and less greyness, more depth and enjoyment to the music. It is probably more messed up, more distorted measurement wise, but it is the sound that can really draw you in. Higher gain can sound more harsh in the upper highs and some headphones brought out this this more than others. Of course different tubes will change the characteristics around, it is still a helluva buy for $149, and a tube rollers delight as it will take so many 6922 variants and even more with adapters.

    The Gilmore of course sounded better than all three of them, but this is an unfair fight, as mine also has a bunch of other stuff thrown at it in the power supply and other stuff. The Magni's really highlight the Gilmore's weakness for high end details as the Magini's will sound more clear and less boomy and tighter on the low end. The Gilmore's can sound thicker and wooly on bottom like a tube amp and sound almost too relaxed compared to the Magni, and even the Vali 2. (The Gilmore I got on trade long time back and has been a love of labor of sorts as my first real amp that made a difference in my system, although it probably more directly competes with the likes of Asgard 2 or 3).

    The MJ1 is on loan at the moment, but from memory is no comparison at all. The MJ1 is more incisive, more dynamic, and more thunderous, and will bring out plankton and wipe the floor with all of these.

    TLDR; Magni 3+ is a worthy amp for the price and there is a lot to like at that price. At the end of the day it is a solid state headphone amp and there are still options depending on your system, preferences, and what system you are trying to put together. It is a really really good starting point.
     
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