Post your turntable setup...can't get enough of those spinners!

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by shaizada, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    One tweak on the Classic is to get a HRX pulley with the multiple ribs and run three or so bands. This of course comes with the downside of more 60Hz and multiples, but on a heavyweight table, the noise will still be much lower than on a lightweight table.

    The older TNT series with the external pods is even more in the vector of the belt sound. I have found that using nylon or silk string results in a much tighter and focused presentation, but at the expense of screetching mechanical resonances.

    The problem is that these belts vary in elasticity throughout. There's no way getting around this unless there is some milspec part. I am guessing that more belts average out the variances and reduce slippage.

    I'm curious about the MMP as a entry level phonostage. Do you know if the MMP shares anything with the MCP?
     
  2. famish99

    famish99 Friend

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    MCP2 is a MMP3 with a SUT inside and a pot for loading, otherwise identical.
     
  3. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    @famish99's got you. But to add to the idea of MMP as entry level -- if MCP is any indication, MMP could be schlong worthy. I personally feel MCP2 is already.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Isn't Soundsmith on here? Maybe we can get a review unit and loaner?
     
  5. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Yep, I was just thinking the same thing and shot off a message. Sounds like it should be possible, will go to a few guys and then through SBAF. I'll connect with @ChaChaRealSmooth.
     
  6. Dr. Higgs

    Dr. Higgs Boson - Member

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    The VPI Classic Signature we used for the comparison @sphinxvc mentioned has the HRX pulley with dual belts and is controlled with the older digital version of the SDS (also has a 3D tonearm, HRX weight, counter-intuitive, and periphery ring). Last time I calibrated the speed I used a test record and the Feickert platterspeed app, but that was over a year ago so things might have drifted a bit since.

    Not sure how much of the "slow" sound was related to pitch, but it seems like the Technics does sound more forward/immediate in comparison.There's probably a more audiophile-compliant way to explain it, but I have no idea what it is.

    Only things that weren't stock on the 1210GR were the headshell (Jelco HS-25) and weight (MasterSounds 400g aluminum).

    1m Blue Jeans LC-1 interconnects were used for both setups. Ground wires were different though, which I’m sure had an enormous impact on the perceived differences ;)

    I think my biggest revelations from the shootout were:
    1. The differences between the 1210GR and Classic Signature were pretty small after trying to control all other variables
      • I think the Classic had a slightly more expansive soundstage, but resolution and tonality seemed similar
      • I knew the Technics was good as I've been listening to it a lot for the past few months, but I didn't think it was going to be that close
      • I've spent countless hours fiddling with the Classic's adjustments to get it perfect, so the fact that the Technics can be so close after an eyeballed alignment and minute of VTF/anti-skate adjustment makes it even more impressive
    2. All of the phono preamps we listened to were quite good, but the MCP2 was the most impressive to me. As a longtime Soundsmith fan, I feel like an idiot for ignoring their preamps for this long.
      • Manley Chinook w/ Amperex 7308 - This is my long term reference with the Classic setup, and although it still sounded good it couldn't match the others in overall resolution. The stage depth and width is easily its biggest strength, and was only matched by the Pearl II in that regard.
      • Pearl II - Shockingly similar tonality and staging to the Chinook, with slightly better resolution. I probably would have assumed there were tubes in there somewhere if I was listening blind.
      • MCP2 - The resolution monster of the bunch, but without any hint of added harshness. Bass seemed a bit lean compared to the Chinook and Pearl, but was easily the most defined. Unlike @sphinxvc I actually loved the adjustable resistance since you can immediately hear the difference as you adjust on the fly.
      • iPhono 3 - Sounds like a competent preamp, but considering the competition it didn't really stand out in any particular way. The adjustability is great but also tedious with all of the dip switches. The ground lug is made for ants. I think I'd take it over the RSA Nighthawk (which I used to own) so seems appropriately priced, but IDK if I'd place it in giant killer territory based on our admittedly short listen without much warmup.
    Don't think I'm ready to part with my Classic yet, but I'm definitely on the lookout for a used MCP2...
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Good to hear. I've been considering the GR1210 as a DD table just for less hassle (and different sound).

    BTW, what voltage are you running the SDS at? I found that going into the secret menu options and having it settle at 85-95V sounded better, more stable than 70V.
     
  8. Dr. Higgs

    Dr. Higgs Boson - Member

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    Looks like the voltage starts at 115 and dips to 102 once it settles. I cant remember messing around with the deeper settings before, so might be worth a shot. Thanks for the tip!
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    102 should be good. Lower voltage is quieter, but depending upon cart drag enough juice.
     
  10. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    Tried a 3D tonearm in my VPI setup and thought it sounded dead and dull (not even worth mentioning when I briefly had it), vastly prefer the standard arm for it's more lively sound.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Different sound. I bitched to the dealer about the sound of the 3D arm. My heart dropped because the Classic 4 came with that 3D arm. It was like two steps forward with the table, and two steps back with the arm. Dealer said "You know what I like about you? You don't do what everyone else is doing and saying sounds good. I'm sending you a metal arm for free. Keep the 3D arm."
     
  12. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Glad to hear the 1210GR performed so close to the VPI. I liked my VPI a lot but there's no denying the Technics won't be as fiddly, and personally I love well implemented direct drive designs. When I inevitably begin climbing the analog mountain again, the 1210 will be on my shortlist.
     
  13. je2a3

    je2a3 Almost "Made"

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    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  14. shaizada

    shaizada Friend

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    Beautiful turntable and tonearms. You have done it right! Clearly, you'e been around the block :) Can you expand on the exact tonearms and cartridges you are using, specifically which SPU model etc. I spot a SPU Classic II I think. Also, if you are using step up transformers, which ones exactly going into what phono stage?

    I haven't posted here or anywhere much at all. Busy with life, kids, work, health...new challenges that took me away from things for a while. I see that the vinyl and speaker community on this forum has grown so much! Good job @purr1n !! The forum is so "analogally" healthy.

    I've augmented a few changes to my downstairs single driver system. Namely classic Air Tight electronics and a Thorens TD 124 as well! I rotate electronics and right now am enjoying the full Air Tight setup.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. RKML0007

    RKML0007 Friend

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    Can’t wait to hear the Airtight-ness
     
  16. shaizada

    shaizada Friend

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    Very soon! I have a new integrated amplifier on order as well. Just ordered it this week. Depending on mood, I can switch them in and out.

    I've owned this amplifier in my system before, but a friend of mine had to have it...so I let it go. Well, now I have ordered a brand new one and this now comes with a remote for volume control, which it didn't last time. I also spec'd in Chrome knobs instead of gold ones.

    The Air Tight ATM-1 is EL-34 based with dual 5AR4 power tube rectification. This EAR V12 is EL-84 based, solid state power rectification.

    http://www.earyoshino.com/V12/

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  17. je2a3

    je2a3 Almost "Made"

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    Thanks for the kind words @shaizada! That's a very nice set up.

    The 301 is fitted with the original Ortofon RMG309 + an early SME 3012 MkII. Usually the SPU GMEII is to be found in the RMG309 and a Denon DL103 in the SME 3012. This set up has remained pretty much constant for over 20 years.

    On the 401 is an Alfred Bokrand AB309 tonearm fitted with an SPU #1S. Depending on my mood, sometimes I'll install a Supex SD900 IV, FR 1 MKII or another DL103 variety. My TD124 is currently fitted with an Ortofon RMG309i + SPU#1s > Hashimoto HM7. The RMG309i Japanese reissue + HM7 MC step up are on loan from a friend.

    Many years ago I wrote about mic transformers repurposed as MC step up devices. I've slimmed down that collection to an Altec 4722 + the Tamura TKS83.

    My two phono preamps are both DIY: 5691/6SL7 octals based on the RCA phono circuit + Loctal 7F7s + 7N7 based on the EAR 834P

    Cheers!

    JE
     
  18. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    @je2a3 Would be various to know how you like the Bokrand arm. I was considering one of those for my 401, but in the end, went with a Groovemaster.

    Also, currently looking at a Hashimoto SUT and/or a 4722. What do you think of the Hashimoto relative to your other SUTs? Thanks for sharing any impressions.
     
  19. shaizada

    shaizada Friend

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    Now I know who you are! Yes, I have read that article a long time ago and tried to even search for some of the step ups in there. Some of them are pretty difficult to source.

    I have a good idea of the sense of musicality you seek through your choice of equipment. We share a lot of that equipment actually. Out of the equipment you listed, I use the SME 3012 Series II Early Version tonearm, The SPU Classic GME MKII SPU, Hashimoto HM7 (and HM3), and the Altec 4722. I am familiar with the Ortofon arms but haven't had the pleasure of owning them or listening to them in my own setup. I also use a Woodsong Audio Garrard 301 Hammertone / Grease bearing turntable (Ikeda 407 MKII tonearm and a SME 3009R tonearms with Ortofon SPU A95 or SPU Spirit or SPU GTE and a Miyajima Zero cartridge 0.7mil stylus for Mono recordings) along with a Steve Dobbins 301 Oil Bearing Turntable (this one has a Triplanar VI tonearm with Dynavector XV-1T cartridge).

    Now, seems like that Tamura TKS83 would be something to be experienced. I will keep an eye out for them. The other one I need to try is the Tango MCT 999.

    Maybe at some point, you can tell more about your very interesting DIY phono stage...would love to learn more about it. I do have an EAR 834P (along with all the other EAR phono stages, except the new Phonobox that was just released). I enjoy that sound very much and would love to learn about your DIY version with Loctal tubes, if you get a chance.

    Anyhow, very glad you found this forum and joined it! Good people here...
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
  20. shaizada

    shaizada Friend

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    I just went back in this thread for a few posts and saw the interesting comparison between the VPI and the Technics 1210 DD turntable. @sphinxvc @Gaspasser @Dr. Higgs

    If its OK, I'd like to add my 2 cents.

    Both turntables are excellent and provide a varying perspective on the sound as you've experienced. Direct Drives (I have a couple of Luxman PD444, Denon DP-57 and a Sony PS-X700 BioTracer) have a transient attack that belt drives don't have to the same degree. Direct drives are more a matter of fact perspective and tend to offer up sound like a transcription of a recording. That X-factor of emotionalism is set more aside and you are served music more akin a high definition picture.

    Belt drives have a different perspective. For one, I've noticed they have a somewhat larger soundstage, particularly in the case of the VPI Classic 1, 2, 3, 4 and definitely with my VPI TNT Hot Rod VI when I was running it as a belt drive with the dual HRX motor. When I converted it to the Rim Drive, the soundstage effect was lessened just a tad, but the transient response of the turntable took a leap towards direct drive behaviour. There is a balance of sound you find and adjust to your OWN listening taste and what you seek out of a given turntable. This is the reason I have so many....I can't get enough of the various perspectives and I appreciate all these qualities of analog.

    Now, with the VPI, if you had the metal arms, not the 3D arms, your experience would have varied a lot more, to the point where it would likely change your opinion of the sound. The 3D arms are not bad per se, but you have to match them with a faster, zippier cartridges to offset some of the extra warmth.

    End of the day, this is a game of balances in the given environment of the turntable setup. Then all those balances have to be weighed out according to your listening taste through YOUR partnering gear. The variables are so many that it is a futile effort to judge one sound against another. People do it all the time, but the way to navigate these waters is to gain lot of experiences, some fleeting, some more intimate, some long term, some short term etc.

    Anyhow, this is all fun stuff! Glad to see everyone well on their way on this forum to the analog world.

    Regardless of how you get there, the road of happiness goes towards a good analog rig and a decent speaker setup. No headphones or DACs will get you there, though they are just as important in many ways as they let you experience YOUR music in YOUR own way.
     

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